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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 23 2016, 2:48am
Post #51 of 53
(516 views)
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There is another thing that tends to bug me about the journey of Thorin and Company. The company still seems to take the same amount of time--about five and a half months--to travel from Bag End to Erebor. However, because the pauses in their quest (Rivendell, Thranduil's Halls, Lake-town) seem to be so much shorter than they were in the novel, their traveling speed, which was already at a snail's pace in the book, must be glacially slow now; not that we can tell that from watching the movies.
Those delays and rest-stops in the book must have added up to something between a month and a half to two months. And that's not even including locating the Secret Door and waiting on the doorstep.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Cirashala
Valinor
Oct 24 2016, 10:15pm
Post #52 of 53
(492 views)
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Namely, the colors of leaves in Mirkwood were green (sickly green, but still green) when they entered, the EE does make it seem longer (at least the traveling through MIrkwood part), and when Bilbo gets to the end, the leaves are brown-not a green one left.
Also, when Bilbo's "high" or whatever it was, in the background you hear Dwalin say, "I don't even know what day it is." And Thorin says, "Is there no end to this accursed forest?!" also, so that does help in lengthening that time.
Where they really failed in the timeline, I think, is not showing Rivendell as long, and all travel in BO5A (definitely the worst of the films for a myriad of reasons- gems hidden inside cow manure is a good way to describe the good vs bad parts in that film).
I think they nailed Bag End to Rivendell, for the most part, because the camp scene helped, as did several shots of them riding- first in the Shire, then camp, then across hills, then through a rainy forest, then another camp in the trollshaws (you see them ride in and it's no longer raining), then the endless run to Rivendell.
Rivendell seemed to only be a few days, but the EE greatly fixed that by showing Bilbo wandering around the vast Rivendell, which surely must have taken a while. Also, Lindir's comment about their wine stores running very low gives an indication that they've been there a while too.
Beorn's house was too quick.
Mirkwood (EE only) was great at showing a lengthy trek through the forest, especially with the leaves and Dwalin and Thorin's comments and the fact that they look more and more haggard with each shot (and they slowly thinned Bombur down too)- all subtle, but excellent at "widening" Mirkwood.
Thranduil's Halls- this one is half good, half bad. Ori's "We're never going to get out of here, are we?" And Thranduil's "100 years" comment helps a bit, but without Bilbo wandering those halls and having many close encounters with elves and being spotted, it seems shorter (but they may not have wanted to repeat AUJ EE's Bilbo wandering an elven kingdom thing because this would have been very similar in many ways, though as a fan I would have LOVED to see it. Of course, I wish I'd seen them go before Thranduil too, but alas  ). That would have also been a good EE scene, I think.
To Laketown- I think that there was too much green til you get to the lake, then it's obviously heading toward winter. That being said, while the ice flows do signify a changing of the seasons much like the trees had in Mirkwood (green to brown), I think it was too early in the year for such big ice chunks to be in the lake. Living near a lake, albeit not one that tends to freeze completely anyway (it's never thick enough to skate on- maybe a Great Lakes or northeastern inland TORnsib can chime in on frozen winter lakes?), I think that's both too early and too stark a contrast to the green that was Mirkwood.
I suppose one could chalk that one up to "the elves kept it green even in winter", but since Thranduil doesn't have an elven ring, I do not see that his natural elven magic would have been strong enough to defy the weather that much.
Laketown- I think they should have shown the day between their arrival and departure. I think it would have given us a great deal more insight to see the dwarves receiving all sorts of gifts from both the Master and the people who hoped they were bearers of good fortune, which would have also been poignant because then we truly understand why Bard is so pissed when Thorin denies them gold, and why Bilbo remarks about "Several hundred angry fishermen". We see them LEAVE with gifts, but I think showing an extra day seeing them ACQUIRE those gifts would have made it more time accurate in their stay there (maybe also have shown them waking up, then walking out on a balcony and startled to see a crowd of people down below with their arms full of gifts- food (which is a definite gift, as Bard had already commented that the people were hungry with the fish and Alfrid), gold (what little they had), warm clothes and blankets, etc- things that such poor people truly could not afford to give up, which would have really driven home just how much the Laketowners had sacrificed thinking these dwarves would make good on their promise (ie- giving it to them because they finally believe their luck is turning, so aren't so worried about keeping what would be essential to them).
Laketown to the Lonely Mountain- no excuses. It was WAY too short, and even stated as such in the film.
Waiting- I'm thinking I'm tossed up about whether or not searching for the door should have taken longer. I don't think two weeks, but they could have done that a bit longer too.
Laketown traveling- I would have liked to see Thorin's reaction (and the others) to the grief of thinking Fili, Kili, Oin, and Bofur were lost. I would have also liked to see more than one room of Erebor's living quarters as the dwarves find it, and try to make it habitable even though they are full of grief- and Thorin retreating to the treasure room not helping, and shutting out everyone and start his descent into madness, which is culminated in Bilbo's reaction to the four when they do show up alive.
I think I would have also liked a scene where the four are heading toward Erebor. Fili surely must have thought that Thorin and the others were barbecued by the dragon, and wondered if he was now king or not. I think a simple camp scene on the way and them lamenting the loss of Laketown (now that they've finally seen dragon fire- or at least the younger two now knew what it must have been like when the dragon took Erebor long ago), and them wondering if their family and friends were alive or dead. Maybe a mention of Bofur asking Fili "If Thorin...if...if they didn't make it, are-are you king now?" with some tears in his eyes as he chokes it out, and Fili shaking his head and saying something like, "I won't be king until I see Thorin for myself" and maybe Kili asks about the Laketowners in a private conversation between them two slightly away from the fire, and asking, "What are they going to do now?" as he looks back, and then looks at Fili with great emotion (as he's trying not to cry too) and ask him if he really thinks Thorin and the others are alive, and Fili hesitates before honestly saying he doesn't know, and then he looks back and says something like, "If they are, and I am king, I will honor his promise, and help those who lost so much." With his own voice cracking.
That would also be a stark contrast to Thorin's gold sickness and explain why Fili was so alarmed at his bizarre behavior (something you only see in his expression when he first sees Thorin talking about the gold and then catches the ruby Thorin threw at him).
Legolas and Tauriel's scouting mission to Gundabad-just sheer garbage. NO WAY they could have pulled that off, not even on eagle's backs  Same with Gandalf hopscotching across the Misty Mountains with the high fells. I didn't mind the high fells themselves, BUT they should have been on the eastern side if they were going to have them in at all.
So yeah- I think there are many ways where the timeline could have been extended to be more faithful and not have dwarves turning into hairy ferraris zooming across the desolation, but at the same time there are many ways, often subtle, that WERE in the films to lengthen both travel and stay (mainly in the EEs, understandably so given theater run times).
(This post was edited by Cirashala on Oct 24 2016, 10:17pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 24 2016, 11:18pm
Post #53 of 53
(487 views)
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You're right, there are subtle signs of the passage of time. However, they are so subtle that they are often overlooked. The changing of the leaves in Mirkwood is a terrific example, considering the opinions of some in this very thread that the company traversed the Forest in only a handful of days. The details illustrate that it was longer, but one has to be very observant to notice.
Yes, the ice in Long Lake does help sell the season as being close to winter, apparently much more so than in the book, despite the evidence of Bard's calendar---which is never directly referenced in DoS anyway (if we go by the calendar then the company arrives in Lake-town on September 28 and Durin's Day is marked as September 30). It's funny you should mention the Great Lakes. As you remembered, I live near both Lake Erie and Lake Ontario. Long Lake is a fraction of the size of either of those and probably would freeze over in the winter (the surface of Erie does freeze over in some years, greatly reducing the effects of lake-effect weather). The Long Lake would also be relatively cold year-round, fed by mountain rivers and streams.
I appreciate the time and effort you put into your reply, but I think I'll keep this response short and end it here. You did raise many interesting points that might fuel further discussion!
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 24 2016, 11:20pm)
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