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HOBBITFAN13
Lorien
Sep 20 2016, 5:33pm
Post #1 of 91
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BOFA is the worst Middle Earth Movie...
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Look, I have to let this out but I honestly think The Battle of the Five Armies is the WORST Middle Earth movie. The movie was filled with horrible CGI, focuses more on Alfrid (Middle Earth's Jar Jar Binks) than Bilbo sometimes, and seriously Dain riding on a pig? Yes the extended edition might be a little better but it didn't add any emotional weight it was just more battle scenes and the only scene that was good was when Bilbo and Bofur talked. That conversation is 1 minute long. I honestly hate this movie. I'm sorry but I was expecting a grand epic finale but instead I come out of the theater saying "WHY ME?!". I think the movie is worse than Revenge of the Sith which is a Star Wars prequel. I feel Peter Jackson just wanted to wrap it up and it was all about the visuals and not really the story. It ultimately made me disappointed and I never felt that way with a Middle Earth movie before. Do you guys agree? What are your thoughts?
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Sep 20 2016, 5:43pm
Post #2 of 91
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I would not call the movie bad because I love all six films, but it is definitely the weakest out of the six and is my personal least favorite. I love the extended version of it, which gives it some more space, but the theatrical felt rushed and just stuck together as a ending and a intro into the Fellowship of the Ring.
I still love the movie, but I have the least amount of fondness for it and the memories of seeing it. After DOS epic ending, I was expecting something more for the last Middle-earth film, but oh well.
I love the new scenes in the EE, and Billy Boyd's Last Goodbye, but it still comes out weaker then the rest.
I still look forward to watching it in a Middle-earth marathon, but not as much as the others!
And yes, I do agree about Alfrid. His scenes tend to get a little ridiculous! But I was honestly ok with his death scene because it ended that character's story.(That should of been in theatrical instead of all of him messing around and being in charge of things too much when Bard needed help.)
Cheers!
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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DainPig
Gondor
Sep 20 2016, 5:57pm
Post #3 of 91
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I will never understand what's wrong with Dain riding a pig
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"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
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dormouse
Half-elven
Sep 20 2016, 6:05pm
Post #4 of 91
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Simple answer: no, I don't agree. At all.
For me there was a lot that was unexpected in Battle of the Five Armies. There were things I hoped/expected to see and didn't. But that said, there is so much in what we did see that I wouldn't have missed for worlds. The early scenes of Bard, Bain and Smaug had me on the edge of the seat and in tears - and that's rare for me. There was never any doubt of the outsome, but I think the decision to place Bain on the tower with his father and give Smaug the chance to speak to his killer was sheer genius. (And I couldn't care less if that particular feat of archery could be reproduced in the real world; emotionally and as part of the film's story I say it worked and still does on re-viewing.) The scenes inside the Mountain; little things like Bilbo and the acorn; the confrontation at the gate; the raven. Thranduil fighting - the elven army; Dain on the pig (so much imagination and design - and again, the killing of both Dain's pig and Thranduil's elk were unexpected and helped raise the emotional tension ot a vital moment. And so many perfect moments - Thorin and the gold pavement; the giving of the Mithril coat; Bilbo's escape with the Arkenstone and the scenes in the King's tent; Bombur blowing the horn to announce Thorin's charge from the Mountain; Bilbo and Thorin as Thorin died; Bilbo's partings from the dwarves and from Gandalf - and his lovely little scene with Gandalf and the pipe... his homecoming....
I could go on but would only end up listing most of the film and there's no point if you hate it so much. You saw 'horrible CGI'; I saw computer work that seems little short of miraculous to me - the flames that engulf Laketown being just one example. I thought and still do think Alfrid could have been toned down a bit, especially his scenes dressed as a woman, but for me the EE went a long way towards redeeming those scenes because they became about Gandalf, and Alfrid inadvertently saving him. And I'm surprised to see anyone dismiss the funeral scenes of the EE so lightly, as they seemed to be the largest omission from the theatrical version for most people.
I don't think there is a worst Middle Earth movie - or, for that matter, a best one. I love them all. But one thing about your post intrigues me. You hated that film and that's very unfortunate. But your reaction, "WHY ME?!'..... Doesn't that seem to be taking it all rather too personally?
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Sep 20 2016, 8:26pm
Post #5 of 91
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In my opinion, I think it shows how much of a badass Dain is, that he can ride a pig into battle and be an intimidating force.
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I always follow my job through.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Sep 20 2016, 8:28pm
Post #6 of 91
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At least Middle Earth's Jar-Jar died, while Star Wars' Jar-Jar royally messed things up for the Republic.
I always follow my job through.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 20 2016, 8:31pm
Post #7 of 91
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I will never understand what's wrong with Dain riding a pig
I was okay with Dain having a battle-pig. I just think it should have looked more like a war-boar and not a domesticated pet.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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LittleHobbit
Lorien
Sep 20 2016, 8:57pm
Post #8 of 91
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Did we see the same movie(s)? 
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Sep 20 2016, 10:05pm
Post #10 of 91
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I most definitely didn't HATE it...
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but it took me a while to love it - and I confess, I DO love it. Let's go down your list of complaints: 1. the CGI was horrible. Yeah, some of it was, but ultimately it wasn't enough to ruin the movie for me. 2. too much Alfrid - totally agree with this! A smaller dose would have been so much better, and when did he have time to change clothes? 3. Dain riding a pig - but that came straight from the book! Yeah, I'd have preferred a boar with tusks, but whatever. 4. No emotional weight in the EE - except for the funeral, perhaps? Honestly I thought the movie had TONS of emotional weight: the Acorn scene, the Mithreal scene, Dwalin confronting Thorin, "Throw him from the Ramparts!", Bilbo & Gandalf, Thorin's death scene - and yeah, the conversation with Bofur was really touching! But the funeral! I get all sniffly every time. 5. Worse than "Revenge of the Sith" - not hardly! At least the Hobbit actors can, you know, ACT! And I felt something (obviously) when Kili and Fili died, as opposed to Padme - meh, not so much. And even I, who is not a huge fan of the book, think the story of "The Hobbit" is much better than the story as told in "Revenge of the Sith"; talk about predictable. Sorry you hate the movie so badly, to each his own I guess. I'm reluctant to call BOT5A the "worst" Middle-earth movie because I love it too much, but it does rate 5th out of 6th place for me, just ahead of RoTK (which I don't hate at all, I really like it, but I guess something's gotta come in 6th place).
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Sep 20 2016, 10:09pm
Post #11 of 91
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"You saw 'horrible CGI'; I saw computer work that seems little short of miraculous to me - the flames that engulf Laketown being just one example."
Really? I thought the first 10 minutes were the BEST CGI in the movie - and if I remember correctly, a lot of those flames were actually practical effects. Oh well, as I said to each his/her own!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 20 2016, 10:43pm
Post #12 of 91
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3. Dain riding a pig - but that came straight from the book! Yeah, I'd have preferred a boar with tusks, but whatever.
What book would that be? Because it certainly wasn't JRRT's The Hobbit, where Dain and his warriors all seem to be on foot. I can imagine that a supply train with reinforcements might have been following somewhere behind them, but that is pure speculation.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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wizzardly
Rohan
Sep 20 2016, 10:48pm
Post #13 of 91
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Well, you're not alone in your opinion, as this is the worst reviewed of the PJ ME movies...
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As I have mentioned before, I decided after seeing DoS that I did not need to see the final film, however, the few scenes I did happen to see certainly did not convince me that I should consider watching the rest of it.
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Ringtir
Rivendell
Sep 20 2016, 10:55pm
Post #14 of 91
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Hey! Don't mess with Radagast!
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He's a great character. Absolute love him!
...
Ok, he is childish...
A childish character, in a childish movie, adapted from a childish book.
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LittleHobbit
Lorien
Sep 20 2016, 11:32pm
Post #15 of 91
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Do you consider ''The Hobbit'' a childish movie?
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The book is surely 'childish', but the movie... I don't know. Not so much.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 21 2016, 12:22am
Post #16 of 91
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The book is surely 'childish', but the movie... I don't know. Not so much.
I'd call the book mostly child-like, but childish in places (where JRRT got a bit overly twee).
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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DainPig
Gondor
Sep 21 2016, 1:13am
Post #17 of 91
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Am I the only one who don't really deslike Alfrid?
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I mean Gage's acting is great. He had a very solid role complete with an arc (if you watch the extended edition you get to see his death scene). I find myself laughing when I watch some of his moments ("get away from me, I am not taking orders from you").
Yeah sorry. This is my unpopular opinion.
"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
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LSF
Gondor
Sep 21 2016, 1:21am
Post #18 of 91
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Good acting, good scenes, good moral foil to Bard (which is his point in BOFA). Though I would've preferred not having his death, because I like the ambiguity of him running off and never seeing him again.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Sep 21 2016, 1:48am
Post #19 of 91
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If not, then it must have been something in behind-the-scenes video accompanying BOT5A. But I know I read/heard that somewhere, I didn't make it up!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Sep 21 2016, 1:52am
Post #20 of 91
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as I said above, the acting in "The Hobbit" was FAR superior to "Revenge of the Sith," and yes that includes Ryan Gage. I just think there was WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too much Alfrid. If you could cut every scene between Bard saving Alfrid and Alfrid stealing the gold (minus the dressing in drag) you'd have it just about right.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 21 2016, 3:18am
Post #21 of 91
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This Little Piggy went to Battle
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Wasn't it in the Appendices? If not, then it must have been something in behind-the-scenes video accompanying BOT5A. But I know I read/heard that somewhere, I didn't make it up!
There's not much in the LotR Appendices about the Battle of Five Armies and I'm not aware of anything that gives Dáin a mount of any kind, much less a pig--not even in the War of the Dwarves and Orcs or at the Battle of Dale. Peter Jackson might have gotten the idea from World of Warcraft or from Terry Pratchett's Discworld, but he didn't get if from Tolkien.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan
Sep 21 2016, 4:20am
Post #22 of 91
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I also don't have a problem with Alfrid (and Cage's acting is wonderful, as is the rest of the cast - in both trilogies)
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My one problem with BotFA remains the lack of verbal renunciation on Thranduil's part of the gems he ventured to the mountain (with his entire army in tow) ready to reclaim or, if he would not relent in obtaining them, whether or not they were returned to him after the battle.
That's it.
(This post was edited by TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense on Sep 21 2016, 4:21am)
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MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien
Sep 21 2016, 6:07am
Post #23 of 91
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We already know Bard is noble and good-hearted, having Alfrid be a greedy jerk doesn't really enhance that. If anything, Thorin works better as a foil for Bard, as they are both leaders of their people, but Thorin acts in his own self-interest, while Bard acts on behalf of his people.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Sep 21 2016, 10:56am
Post #24 of 91
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Er, no, that's not what I meant....
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I wasn't saying that I thought the burning of Laketown was horrible! The OP complained about the CGI in the film; I was saying that I think it's amazing (in a very good way) and cited the whole sequence of the burning of Laketown as one example.
From what I remember they may have used actual flame in the close-up scenes with the burning buildings, but they definitely talk a lot about achieving Smaug's fire as a digital effect in that part of the film, and how complicated it was to capture the strength of the flame, the wind direction and so on. I think it's some of the most breathtaking CGI I've seen. But then, I also remember an article praising the CGI in the battle scenes from a technical VFX magazine that was linked here some time after the film came out: given reactions like that and my own I'm afraid I don't take the complaints about CGI that come up in here very seriously. There's a difference between the technical skill in achieving the effect and whether or not people actually like the effect once acieved. Or something....
But as you say, each to their own!
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 21 2016, 1:39pm
Post #25 of 91
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My one problem with BotFA remains the lack of verbal renunciation on Thranduil's part of the gems he ventured to the mountain (with his entire army in tow) ready to reclaim or, if he would not relent in obtaining them, whether or not they were returned to him after the battle.
That's it.
I can agree with this (although, that's really the only thing that bothers you about the entire movie?). What should have happened concerning the White Gems of Lasgalen: 1) Thranduil withdraws his claim after realizing that his son Legolas is a living reminder of his love for his wife; and 2) Dain should have returned the gems anyway, just because it was the right thing to do.
I thought that Ryan Gage was fine as Alfrid and gave Jackson exactly what he wanted. It was how Jackson used the character that I have issues with. Too much slapstick and a stupid death. I might have based Alfrid's end loosely on how the Master goes out in the book (perhaps involving Gollum).
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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