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Anubis
Rivendell
Sep 16 2016, 9:14pm
Post #1 of 20
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Background characters
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Anybody else loves the background characters of these movies as much as me? By background characters I mean those guys that appear behind the main characters, doing stuff in some scenes, or maybe characters shown momentarily, whose names and origins are never given.
I must admit Iīm particularly interested in the battle scenes when it comes to background characters. Thereīs just so much stuff going on behind the main charactersī fight that I canīt help but be amazed at the tremendous amount of work dedicated to adding so many tiny little details. Itīs only after many re-watches that Iīve come to comprehend the scale of it all.
Of course, this applies to all kinds of things, from props and costumes, to carefully arranged chess pieces on a board, but Iīm particularly interested (some would say obsessed  ) in the background characters. Thereīs no one completely immobile, everyoneīs doing something; even in battles, were it would be easier to make all the extras just grab each other. There are things going on.
I enjoy watching the characters in the background so much that Iīve grown fond of some of them.
Take for instance scene in which Bard is killing orcs left and right (in Dale, just around the time he notices his children calling to him). Thereīs this black-haired woman shooting arrow after arrow amidst the chaos, behind Bard, vigorously trying to halt the orc onslaught. Itīs hard to notice, but itīs there.
I think all these nice details add to the immersion, at least for those that watch the movies with nothing short of a magnifying glass, such as me. They make Middle Earth come alive. I honestly donīt care if they are made with CGI, to me they are dwarves, elves, men and orcs, all of them alive and forming part of that world. I donīt even notice the CGI most of the time anyways.
So, has anybody reached the alarming level of freakishness that I have reached (or maybe even surpassed it?)?
Oh, and you are totally welcome to share your own favorite background characters, providing it wasnīt you (yes, I know certain people here have played some random background characters in specific scenes; but that wouldnīt be fair game, right?
 )
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DainPig
Gondor
Sep 17 2016, 12:34am
Post #2 of 20
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I like those two cities because they are the only human civilization we see in the films. We only see men in Auj because of its prologue (also, I like some of those dwarves in Erebor). So Dale is nice for its multiculturalism, and I am not even a SJW or something. It makes the city look so poor, people's clothes, their culture and mores. The slavic culture is cool I must say. So I like Esgaroth's people, they hold such a great past but are so ignorant about it. They proved t be brave and strong during the Battle, and the Horn scene at the end of the third film I must admit it is one of my favourite scenes in the whole trilogy. So yeah.
"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 17 2016, 12:45am
Post #3 of 20
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I like those two cities [Lake-town and Dale] because they are the only human civilization we see in the films.
Well, and Bree in the extended edition of The Desolation of Smaug. In addition to the flashbacks to old Dale, there is a fair degree of multiculturalism displayed in Esgaroth despite its rather decrepit condition.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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DainPig
Gondor
Sep 17 2016, 12:58am
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You are right, we have Bree. I forgot about it.
For some reason, there are no non-white people in old Dale. Perhaps those folks we see in Esgaroth are children of merchats who established residence there....? Just like immigrants.
"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 17 2016, 6:48am
Post #6 of 20
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Social Justice Warriors...a phrase that has become a term of derision for some people.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
(This post was edited by entmaiden on Sep 18 2016, 1:56pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 17 2016, 6:55am
Post #7 of 20
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For some reason, there are no non-white people in old Dale. Perhaps those folks we see in Esgaroth are children of merchants who established residence there....? Just like immigrants.
I've made the same assumption regarding the folk of Lake-town. I haven't closely studied the scenes set in Girion's Dale, but as they are just brief flashbacks, I don't think that we can conclude that they definitively represent Dale's total population.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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StingingFly
Lorien
Sep 18 2016, 9:25pm
Post #8 of 20
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One good take away from BOTFA...
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...would be the dwarvish warriors who were shouting commands in Khuzdul. The dwarves of the Iron Hills in general were well done, and pretty much how I imagined them from the books (twirly-whirlies notwithstanding).
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DainPig
Gondor
Sep 19 2016, 4:42pm
Post #9 of 20
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They have new moments in the extended edition, which are great. Those dwarves are the real definition of dwarf with long beards and all. I am glad they made the company different, we would have problemas to distinguish them from the Iron-hillians.
And they are at the funeral too. By the way, one of them is Thorin III, right?
"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
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Na Vedui
Rohan
Sep 22 2016, 11:02pm
Post #10 of 20
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There's a "background lady" I like very much - we only see her briefly; she is Chinese or Mongolian-looking and she is tending a wounded person in Dale, so gently.
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DainPig
Gondor
Sep 22 2016, 11:13pm
Post #11 of 20
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When Thorin is doing his speech, we see her in the crowd. She's a survivor. Sometimes I wonder what is her backstory. Did her entire family die? It is a sad thing.
"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
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Lissuin
Valinor
Sep 23 2016, 12:53am
Post #12 of 20
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And here she is in DOS with her white goat.
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DainPig
Gondor
Sep 23 2016, 11:43pm
Post #13 of 20
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Why would someone need a goat in Esgaroth?
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Don't they have fishes? And where would they raise those animals?
"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
(This post was edited by DainPig on Sep 23 2016, 11:52pm)
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Lissuin
Valinor
Sep 23 2016, 11:48pm
Post #14 of 20
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Man does not live by fish alone, mate.
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DainPig
Gondor
Sep 24 2016, 12:09am
Post #16 of 20
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One thing I don't understand about Lake-town...
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...why is it in the middle of a lake? I mean there's land just there and they are like "nah, water is better". Why don't they simply move themselves to the shores?
"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 24 2016, 12:16am
Post #17 of 20
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The remains of real lake-towns built on pilings have been discovered. It was once thought that they actually had been built out on the water, but that does not seem to have been the case (at least for the most part). Tolkien was aware of these ancient towns.
In the case of Esgaroth, the builders might have had defense against dragons in mind when it was constructed.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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DainPig
Gondor
Sep 24 2016, 12:29am
Post #18 of 20
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"In the case of Esgaroth, the builders might have had defense against dragons in mind when it was constructed."
I understand what they had in mind, but it didn't work at all.
Why not just build it far away from the Mountain? This hole thing here makes zero sense.
"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Sep 24 2016, 12:56am
Post #19 of 20
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no one would ever build a structure near a fault line. Or a volcano. Or in Tornado Alley. Or on a flood plain. They built there because their economy was founded on the lake, and because it was a strategic location for trade. It's pretty much the same reason people build in many otherwise uninviting locations today. And in the time of The Hobbit, the dragon had been "dormant" for a long while.
In that region, building on the lake was still far safer than on the shore - and against other enemies than dragons. It would be very difficult for men or goblins to attack such a town successfully. Think of Esgaroth as a walled city with a moat. Except in this case, the lake is the moat and the wall combined. And in the book, they are much farther from the Mountain than they seem in the movie.
And it even sort-of worked against the dragon, at least it hindered him a little.
Amid shrieks and wailing and the shouts of men he came over them, swept toward the bridges and was foiled! The bridge was gone, and his enemies were on an island in deep water - too deep and dark and cool for his liking. If he plunged into it, a vapour and a steam would arise enough to cover all the land with a mist for days; but the lake was mightier than he, it would quench him before he could pass through.
In the book, they had more warning (because of the distance), and Bard was on guard and rallied the troops before he got there, and they'd already drenched all the houses and rooftops with water and had fire brigades working even during the first part of the attack. Of course, it wouldn't have worked in the long run if it hadn't been for Bard and his Black Arrow, but they did have a sort of plan.
The distances in the film were shortened for both visual and dramatic effect, and PJ had Bard arrested and in prison during the attack, instead of rallying the archers and the bucket brigades, so FilmEsgaroth put up pretty much none of the fight that BookEsgaroth did. Tolkien's version was a bit more practical than the movie.
Silverlode
Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 24 2016, 6:53am
Post #20 of 20
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Silverlode found the exact quote from Tolkien that I would have used. Esgaroth was a good twenty miles or more from the Mountain, and situated in an ideal position for trade between the Woodland Realm, Erebor, Dale and places downriver such as Dorwinion. And the settlement had been there for a long time; remember that there were already the remains of a previous version of Lake-town still visible in Bard's day.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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