Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Is "The Hobbit" Bilbo's story?
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Sep 9 2016, 7:07pm

Post #1 of 82 (3389 views)
Shortcut
Is "The Hobbit" Bilbo's story? Can't Post

Probably sounds like a dumb question, but in another post Dainpig brought up a pretty good point - that the story in "The Hobbit" is actually Thorin's story as told by Bilbo. Well, I can see where he's coming from, even in the book the actual story is the quest of 13 Dwarves to break into Erebor and make off with some gold. This quest was already started when they dropped in on Bilbo, and would likely have continued if he'd refused to go along with them. On the other hand, the adventure has a profound impact on Bilbo, starting with his "Took" side taking over to finding some courage (spider fight) and ability to plan an escape/rescue, and a fateful decision that didn't do what he'd hoped it would (Arkenstone). Plus you have that whole section of the book where Bilbo interacts with Gollum, something he does separately from the Dwarves. So it could really be both, couldn't it? Of course, the movie version really pumped up Thorin as a main character (but NOT at the expense of Bilbo, something I've argued repeatedly about & will continue to do so) - he's more of a co-lead in this version, which I obviously would never complain about!EvilHeart





And it's safe to say that the movie version put a stronger emphasis on their friendship than the book did, which I think is a good addition to the story.



But at the end of the day, I still think it's Bilbo's story - even if the movie presents the story as Bilbo's friendship with Thorin.



Having said that, it makes sense to me if others don't feel that way. So, what do you think? Is "The Hobbit" Bilbo's story, or Thorin's story?

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


LSF
Gondor

Sep 9 2016, 7:33pm

Post #2 of 82 (3240 views)
Shortcut
Why can't it be about both? [In reply to] Can't Post

At least for the movie, I can't speak for the book. But I like that, like LOTR, The Hobbit is about the hobbit hero and the lost king. The difference is that in LOTR their stories were mostly separate, and in Hobbit their stories are mostly intertwined.

But if I were to say who the movie main character was, based on where most the emotion and such comes from, it's Bilbo.


Ringtir
Rivendell


Sep 9 2016, 7:39pm

Post #3 of 82 (3238 views)
Shortcut
I feel that is more an all characters story [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe the strategy that PJ used for bringing back the mood from LOTR films (that a lot of critics ask when they saw AUJ) was to make an all characters focus
The Necromancer plot
The Elves plot
Bard and Grim... Sorry, Alfrid
Thorin and Azog
Bilbo and his journey
And the Kingdom of Erebor (thank you very much EE for a solid conclusion)

All these plots moves and ends in his individual paths. Something they cross, but each payoff doesn't alter the other ones.


(This post was edited by Ringtir on Sep 9 2016, 7:43pm)


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Sep 9 2016, 7:53pm

Post #4 of 82 (3238 views)
Shortcut
Well, from all the pics/photos and comments Iíve seen [In reply to] Can't Post

here on many of the TORn boards, I have concluded that the theme of three The Hobbit movies is mainly centered on Thorinís hair. Shocked Shocked

Ď. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




wizzardly
Rohan


Sep 9 2016, 8:15pm

Post #5 of 82 (3224 views)
Shortcut
lol Yes! [In reply to] Can't Post

and the most emotional scene is of course when Thorin is dying, and not because he is dying, but because its the only scene in the movie where his hair doesn't look fabulous.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 9 2016, 8:26pm

Post #6 of 82 (3225 views)
Shortcut
By the very same logic... [In reply to] Can't Post

Legolas was the main character in Lord of the Rings. Seriously, the Leggy-lovers that appeared after FOTR make the Thorin Hair Brigade look quiet and tame. Go not to the fangirls for your plot summaries, for they will but sigh and squee and post even more fanart. Tongue

I must admit, I think the Hobbit movies suffered a bit from lack of the same sort of amateur reviews that LOTR got. I'll never forget reading the blog which waxed long and lyrical about "the Bow Guy". It was excellent, if unintentional, comedy, and what it lacked in professionalism it made up in sheer enthusiasm.

Silverlode

Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.




TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Sep 9 2016, 8:29pm

Post #7 of 82 (3210 views)
Shortcut
Agree with LSF [In reply to] Can't Post

Every bit of the post, the only difference being I can speak for the book (and, as you all know, I feel the films are better for it).


Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Sep 9 2016, 8:43pm

Post #8 of 82 (3208 views)
Shortcut
Well, his hair IS Majestic! [In reply to] Can't Post

Just look!









But seriously, even I know the book wasn't about Thorin's hair - though I believe his beard featured prominently, or so I've been told.Tongue

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


No One in Particular
Rivendell


Sep 9 2016, 8:44pm

Post #9 of 82 (3205 views)
Shortcut
Yes! And no. [In reply to] Can't Post

The book is Bilbo's story. It is told from Bilbo's point of view, with Bilbo's thoughts and experiences coloring every nuance. We don't even see the Battle of Five Armies, because Bilbo is unconscious and his POV is the inside of his eyelids. Smile It's about how Bilbo loses his reputation with his neighbors, and gains something that JRRT left up to the reader to define (based on his or her own applicability, one supposes).

The movie is much more of an ensemble piece, with segments even being told when Bilbo is not present (part of Laketown, Thorin and Thranduil). Whether this is good or bad is up, once again, to the individual viewing. I feel that this approach was almost mandatory, however, since the book is not a prequel in any fashion, but the movies were filmed explicitly as a prequel. Again, good or bad is entirely up to the opinion of the individual. Tongue

While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph


Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Sep 9 2016, 8:58pm

Post #10 of 82 (3200 views)
Shortcut
Did someone say "fanart?" [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's some of my FAVORITES!!!













You know there are some very talented and imaginative people out there - I can only look in envy. Not sure if I can compete with "The Bow Guy," but I'm working on another fanvid which will hopefully explain my love & devotion to both trilogies, in a hopefully humorous way. Some day I may even get it finished, LOL!Crazy


Can't believe my own thread got derailed by my favorite subject - Thorin's hair! Where's Avandel when you need her???

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Sep 9 2016, 9:29pm

Post #11 of 82 (3188 views)
Shortcut
My pleasure [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Can't believe my own thread got derailed by my favorite subject - Thorin's hair!


Sometimes going Ďoff-topicí gets one kudos!

Hairís to ya KilidoesÖ Wink

*picture of a lotta locks goes here*

Ď. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




Omnigeek
Lorien


Sep 10 2016, 3:24am

Post #12 of 82 (3150 views)
Shortcut
Seriously? [In reply to] Can't Post

The story doesn't begin with "In the Blue Mountains, lived a dwarf." The introduction doesn't talk about what Thorin learned (though he DID learn a valuable lesson in the end). Thorin's story is important but it's a backdrop to Bilbo's growth as a person and his importance in the tale of the Ring. It didn't start with Smaug's raid or the Battle of Moria. The actual story is NOT about the quest of 13 Dwarves, it's about Bilbo's growth as he joined said quest.

You could make a case that the trilogy as PJ filmed it was Thorin's story -- which is one reason I said before that I'd have less issue with the movies if they had been entitled "Thorin and Company: XXXX" or "The Quest for Erebor: XXXX" instead of "The Hobbit: XXXX" -- but the story of "The Hobbit" in book form is undoubtedly Bilbo's story and you really have to stretch and contort to say it's Thorin's story. The movies were much more Thorin's story with Bilbo being the add-on -- if that was Dainpig's point, then I agree with him.

Sorry, focus in a story is a zero sum game. You can't increase the focus on one or more characters without taking some away from another. The iincreased attention on Thorin and other dwarves necessarily reduced the focus on Bilbo. You can say the reduction was miniscule, acceptable, or even preferable (as it obviously was in your opinion) but you cannot factually or reasonably say it did NOT take away from Bilbo. BTW, I would say in the book that while Bilbo grew to be fond of Thorin, he had far more of a friendship with Balin and Dori. They seemed to miss the relationship between Dori and Bilbo in the movies.


Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Sep 10 2016, 3:48am

Post #13 of 82 (3141 views)
Shortcut
Focus of the story [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Sorry, focus in a story is a zero sum game. You can't increase the focus on one or more characters without taking some away from another. The iincreased attention on Thorin and other dwarves necessarily reduced the focus on Bilbo. You can say the reduction was miniscule, acceptable, or even preferable (as it obviously was in your opinion) but you cannot factually or reasonably say it did NOT take away from Bilbo.


Well I think you can if you expand the story, which is what PJ did. I would agree with you that Legolas crowded out Beorn, but I don't believe Thorin's increased presence diminished Bilbo in the movies. Bilbo still did everything he did in the book, and then some! And Martin had some WONDERFUL moments where Thorin wasn't present: the 'Good Morning' scene, the 13 minutes with Gollum, the time with Smaug, and of course that lovely, silent moment with Gandalf after Thorin's death. I think the focus of the movie is pretty well demonstrated in the Acorn scene - you can't have Thorin without Bilbo. So I think you CAN factually and reasonably say that Thorin's increased role did NOT take away from Bilbo, not even a miniscule amount. And as for my preference, I can honestly say that, silly fangirl crush notwithstanding, I wouldn't prefer Bilbo's part get cut in the least. In fact, the scene that didn't make the movie which I would have liked to see - and I've said this before - is the scene where Bilbo tells Balin about the contest of riddles. I don't believe Thorin was even in that scene - but as I've discussed with others it would be hard to fit that scene into DOS, not sure where it would go. Again, that has nothing to do with increasing Thorin's role, more the overall script just didn't have room for it.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Sep 10 2016, 5:51am

Post #14 of 82 (3129 views)
Shortcut
Instead [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
They seemed to miss the relationship between Dori and Bilbo in the movies

Instead we have a lovely relationship between Bofur and Bilbo, and that relationship has more screentime in the films then Bilbo and Dori had in the book.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 10 2016, 8:44am

Post #15 of 82 (3130 views)
Shortcut
Yes I can, and do..... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
you cannot factually or reasonably say it did NOT take away from Bilbo


The Hobbit
is Bilbo's story. Put more precisely, it's the story of how Bilbo gained a greater understanding of himself and his place in the world through a journey he never intended to make and a series of encounters with the great and the high and the terrible - creatures, characters and places undreamed of or shunned in his cosy Shire. Telling that story on the page or on the screen would be impossible without including those creatures, characters and places. For the film they expanded the creatures, characters and places, some at the expense of others. I say they took nothing away from Bilbo.

Thorin and his company are central to Bilbo's story. It's hearing the passion, the mystery and the longing in the dwarvish song that fires Bilbo's longing for adventure - without which, there would be no story. So while I'd agree with you that the film shifted the focus of Bilbo's developing friendship with the dwarves to prominence to Thorin, (then Balin and Bofur), I can't agree with you that this took away from Bilbo. I can't see how it could, given that it is Bilbo's friendship with Thorin they expanded. Bilbo's friendship - the focus there is still firmly on Bilbo.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Sep 10 2016, 1:29pm

Post #16 of 82 (3091 views)
Shortcut
Ok! No more pettiness please [In reply to] Can't Post

Letís get back to whatís really of significance here . . . . . THORINíS HAIR !!!

ThorinsHair photo ThorinsHair.jpg

Ď. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 10 2016, 2:05pm

Post #17 of 82 (3080 views)
Shortcut
It's acting its socks off there..... [In reply to] Can't Post

...if hair can be said to have socks? Can it? How long is a piece of.... sock? Evil

The flying locks on the right look rather like part of an Alan Lee forest.....

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Noria
Gondor

Sep 10 2016, 2:28pm

Post #18 of 82 (3069 views)
Shortcut
Yes The Hobbit, book and movie, are both Bilboís story. [In reply to] Can't Post

For me the book is Bilboís tale. Of course the Quest of Erebor drives the narrative because a passive individual like pre-Quest Bilbo had to be almost forcibly removed from his comfort zone. But even Thorinís tale was as much about Bilbo as the Dwarves.

In the movies, the journey from the Bilbo we meet at the beginning of AUJ to the Hobbit he is when he returns to the Shire after the battle has been remarkably faithfully and, dare I say lovingly, chronicled and is the core of the movies. The movieverse has been enlarged to allow for the enhancement of Thorinís story and those of Gandalf and the White Council/DolGuldur, Thranduil/Legolas/Tauriel, and Laketown/Dale but it all comes back to Bilbo in the end. Proportionately Bilboís story takes up less space, so to speak, than it does in the book but not because it has been truncated or abridged. If anything, it has been expanded and enriched.

There are things I would have liked to have seen more of or done differently in these movies but I canít fault them on Bilboís importance and development.


wizzardly
Rohan


Sep 10 2016, 5:29pm

Post #19 of 82 (3050 views)
Shortcut
I know, seriously right? [In reply to] Can't Post

And I'm pretty sure if he'd had the chance to get to the supposed rewrite people always mention, Tolkien almost certainly would have dedicated at least a page of prose to Thorin's magnificent mane.


DainPig
Gondor


Sep 10 2016, 7:57pm

Post #20 of 82 (3030 views)
Shortcut
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

If you look well, my theory only applies to Dos and Botfa. Auj is pretty much Bilbo's story in most parts. In the other two films, mainly Dos, Thorin take the role from the hobbit, being the dramatic character who holds the story. Bilbo saves the dwarves and witnesses many important events. With exception of the Smaug dialogue, he "does" things, he is not the "thing". All the plot of Dos and Botfa is about Thorin with Bilbo being the witness who goes back to his town and black screen.

"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."

dainpigblog.blogspot.com

historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com


Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Sep 10 2016, 8:52pm

Post #21 of 82 (3017 views)
Shortcut
Fine hair-acting! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin's hair deserves it's own short film!



Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Sep 10 2016, 8:54pm

Post #22 of 82 (3015 views)
Shortcut
It would go along with the beard! [In reply to] Can't Post

The one you claim is missing?Tongue

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Sep 10 2016, 8:58pm

Post #23 of 82 (3016 views)
Shortcut
I think quite a few agree [In reply to] Can't Post

In the movies, Thorin is definitely pushed forward. Most telling is the final fight with Azog - by then Bilbo is knocked unconscious. That's all Thorin until Bilbo wakes up. But I still think it's mostly Bilbo's story, about his friendship with Thorin and the Company. Still, it's an interesting POV you have, something I've never thought about before, which is why I started this post. Thanks for that!Cool

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Sep 11 2016, 12:12am

Post #24 of 82 (2979 views)
Shortcut
Hair-raising Tales of Middle-Earth? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


wizzardly
Rohan


Sep 11 2016, 12:23am

Post #25 of 82 (2975 views)
Shortcut
Perhaps the makeup crew mixed up the beard and wig.... [In reply to] Can't Post

because if you switched the hair on his face for the hair on his head, that would be really something!

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.