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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Sep 9 2016, 1:00pm
Post #76 of 92
(2221 views)
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I always follow my job through.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 9 2016, 1:33pm
Post #77 of 92
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PJ has very obviously made Thorin the main character and focus of his adaptation. Followed by the Tauriel/Kili/Legolas romance.
No, what PJ has done is given the narrative multiple points-of-view, including: Bilbo; Thorin; Gandalf; Radagast; Tauriel; Bard; and others. Bilbo's role in the story still remains intact and pretty much whole. It isn't so much diminished except in the sense that other roles are expanded or added.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Avandel
Half-elven
Sep 9 2016, 5:04pm
Post #78 of 92
(2201 views)
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well, can't argue with this (:
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And about the title and the focus to the Hobbit. I have more problems with DoS, while I love all those little glimpses on the relationship between Thorin and Bilbo (and Fili and Kili), I miss more deep in their relation, at least something like Balin and Bilbo before entering the Dragon's Lair. BOFA makes a greater job in that aspect, the interact between the two during the first hour is lovely. And in my mind Bilbo is so worried about Thorin and his dragon disease because he already felt that strange (and horrible) ambition with the One Ring. If Peter really thought that, he is pure genius. If not, he's also a pure genius. But, for being beyond the title of the trilogy, I also missed more development for the charming Dori and his brothers, much more from Fili and the weight of being the next king and an older and protective brother, and the tragic story of Thranduil, one of the best plots that didn't get into the movie. And when some book lovers complaints about the movie being too far from the original source, its about this points.
*Sigh*. Agreed, on these points. I know it's been discussed on TORn before. I have always found it interesting? disturbing? baffling? that PJ would do something "daring", really, in apparently (supposedly) with AUJ taking on a film where the main "heroes" are going to be 14 hairy little characters - and PJ succeeds ! Not with everyone, but folks "get" the "family" groups, the different personalities, the dynamics.
We can RELATE to all that, and some of us want to know more. How does Fili feel about the weight of kingship falling on his shoulders, when he doesn't know if Thorin is dead or not? What does Thranduil feel about the fact that his story isn't too different from Thorin's, really? How does the protective Dori feel about the fact it's likely he and his brothers will die in the siege of Erebor?
And then inexplicably the focus seems to shift...never mind the rapid-fire pace of BOFA which I thought was too much, tho the EE helped....
But, while I can feel bad about what might have been, I just try to remember that what - 5,6 years ago - these film characters as depicted didn't even exist . My favorite films were just sketches on big sheets of paper, probably. The other thing is, no matter what PJ did, I doubt it would make everyone happy.
So I suppose, when watching, I just am immersed in what I love about the films , and sort of blow off stuff I am less thrilled with - but then again, stuff I don't like, there's other folks that love it.
Artist: neptunesteven on Deviant Art
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wizzardly
Rohan
Sep 9 2016, 6:21pm
Post #79 of 92
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I was only agreeing with your point...
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that Thorin was the main character of the movie. I don't agree however that he was the main character of the book though...the book is very much centered around Bilbo.
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LittleHobbit
Lorien
Sep 11 2016, 6:26am
Post #80 of 92
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And to answer the OP, more creatures would have been too many. As it was, having the Ogres in addition to Orcs, Goblins, Wargs, Trolls, and Bats seemed too much.
Ogres? When did we ever see Ogres in these movies? There were no Ogres, in LOTR, only Trolls. I believe those creatures are Trolls.
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LittleHobbit
Lorien
Sep 11 2016, 6:30am
Post #81 of 92
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but the ''rock giants'' (stone giants, actually) were in no way associated with Sauron, so why would they join the battle?
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LittleHobbit
Lorien
Sep 11 2016, 6:48am
Post #82 of 92
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I thought it was made pretty clear in the films that...
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the two Orc armies were armies sent by Sauron.
As for the Trolls, why shouldn't they be there? Because of daylight? If so, what about the dozen Trolls battling in daylight on Pelennor in ROTK? As someone here has said, the ''daylight'' rule is kept pretty inconsistent throughout the ''hexalogy''.
(This post was edited by LittleHobbit on Sep 11 2016, 6:51am)
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LittleHobbit
Lorien
Sep 11 2016, 8:38am
Post #84 of 92
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Is there any official film-related material mentioning ogres? How we don't know this is not some mere mutated form of troll or something?
Also, are there more examples?
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Sep 11 2016, 9:43am
Post #85 of 92
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In The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - Chronicles: The Art of War by Daniel Falconer you can read about ogres. And if you go to Youtube and search for "the hobbit war beasts" and you will found more examples
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 11 2016, 2:17pm
Post #86 of 92
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Ogres? When did we ever see Ogres in these movies? There were no Ogres, in LOTR, only Trolls. I believe those creatures are Trolls.
This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays kings, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
Poor Bilbo sat in the dark thinking of all the horrible names of all the giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales, but not one of them had done all of these things.
No Ogres appeared in the LotR movies; however, Peter Jackson did include some in the Battle of Five Armies:
"New creatures, the Ogres were smaller and more like humans than Trolls. We had an Ogre minding the Catapult Trolls and menacing Bard's children in Dale. There was also one with a withered arm that almost killed Alfred but was shot by Bard.
"For the extended edition of The Battle of the Five Armies we created a sequence in which Ogres operated in squads to take out Dwarf chariots. They flipped chariots, spilling the Dwarf soldiers and running them down to stomp or bash. A number of Dwarves died horribly in that sequence, ending up as Ogre toe-jam." - Matt Aitken, Weta Digital Visual Effects Supervisor, The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies: Chronicles: The Art of War
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Sep 12 2016, 9:49pm
Post #87 of 92
(2073 views)
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"One of my favorite shots in all the movies, tho it's brief. Because it's Bilbo at Thorin's back. The Hobbit. Not Dwalin. Bilbo.
And I completely believe PJ did that shot and actor placement on purpose, and it's beautiful. Seriously, by DOS Thorin is close to a home he fought hard to get to,
and of all creatures in Middle Earth he has a hobbit at his back - not a dwarf."
Yes, it is a lovely scene, and I never thought about that - Bilbo instead of Dwalin, who is always by Thorin's side? I always think of Thorin looking forward to Erebor, while Bilbo is looking back at Laketown. Perhaps Bilbo is a little more concerned about Kili and Bofur (he did ask "Where's Bofur?"), or perhaps he is thinking about what Bard said about awakening Smaug. Or maybe he's still missing his books and armchair, I don't know. But all in all, it's a great scene, and shows the importance of Bilbo, reminding us why the movie is called "The Hobbit" instead of "The Quest for Erebor."
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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DainPig
Gondor
Sep 16 2016, 4:07pm
Post #88 of 92
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It's a shame it is so short... too short. Funny thing is how the film is called The Desolation of Smaug but we still got so few scenes in there.
"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
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LittleHobbit
Lorien
Sep 17 2016, 10:34am
Post #89 of 92
(1997 views)
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Since we are talking about the movies...
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it's irrelevant if ''Ogres'' of some sort were mentioned in the book. Also, just because they were, doesn't mean they actually exist in Middle-earth. Didn't the Hobbit book start with a legend that someone from Bilbo's familiy was married to a fairy? That doesn't mean fairies exist in Arda.
But the Matt Aitken quote actually does help and clear things up a bit, so thanks for providing that. 
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 17 2016, 2:57pm
Post #90 of 92
(1979 views)
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In the case of Bilbo's family legend, I think we can read 'fairy' as 'Elf'. At the same time, I agree that the legend is most likely nothing but smoke and shadow, no more substantial than Balrog wings.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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wizzardly
Rohan
Sep 18 2016, 2:06pm
Post #92 of 92
(1941 views)
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This trilogy has reached the point where it makes very little difference
whether or not any one little detail has any logical footing in
relation to Tolkien. This is Peter Jackson's Hobbit. So if he wants
ogres at the battle then it makes sense that they are there. PJ
abandoned the idea of honoring the author with a faithful adaptation of
his book early on. This is why I say, "why not the stone giant
transformers at the battle?" as well. Makes about as much sense as
anything else here.
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