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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Let's imagine some awesome/alternate shots that are not in the Trilogy

Legolas_Shoehorn
Bree


Aug 25 2016, 8:54am

Post #1 of 14 (3238 views)
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Let's imagine some awesome/alternate shots that are not in the Trilogy Can't Post

The Desolation of Smaug

Thorin & Co (well most of them) are leaving Lake-Town on the boat. Thorin looks straight to Erebor while Bilbo looks back to the cheering people of Lake Town. But then he notices one man who's not cheering standing alone on the tower next to the wind lance with his bow: Bard. He's awaiting the looming disaster the dwarves undoubtedly are going to unleash. If that happens, he wants to be in the right place to fight the monster.

Addititional note: even the capture of Bard could play out differently. The Master of Lake Town orders his men to get Bard from the tower because he alienates the hopeful mood of the citizens. And it's the Master of Lake Town who frees Bard from jail. He apologizes to the Bow Man and seeks his help in order to kill the dragon.




My English is not that good, my Elvish is better ;-)


Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2016, 8:02pm

Post #2 of 14 (3139 views)
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The first one is good [In reply to] Can't Post

but the second one, not so much - it seems that would be out of character for the Master of Laketown, who's trying to leave with the gold. Maybe Bragga instead?


Here's one from me: instead of Bilbo killing that weird creature in the forest, we get a few minutes of Bilbo telling Balin about the contest of riddles he had with Gollum. That's one scene from the book that didn't make the movie, and I really wish it did. Not sure where it would fit in, though - maybe on the barge?





And here's another one: change the scene where Azog breaks through the ice to kill Thorin. I understand Thorin had to be killed (well, okay, maybe not), but after that really cool ice fight and Thorin attempting to drown Azog, I just really hate that break thru the ice scene. Let's say that Azog drowns, Thorin picks up Orchrist and starts to go after Kili, but then Bolg jumps out and runs him through. Maybe Bilbo wakes up just in time to see this, maybe not. I don't really care if Beorn or Legolas kills Bolg afterward, but one of them should be immediately on the scene to do that. But then Thorin can still see the battlefield, fall over, and give his death speechUnsure





Hey, is it Thorin Thursday already?


Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


LSF
Gondor

Aug 25 2016, 10:10pm

Post #3 of 14 (3115 views)
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respectfully disagree with yours... [In reply to] Can't Post

The point of Bilbo killing the Mirkwood creature was to show the impact of the Ring, and Bilbo realizing it, leading to his reluctance to use it later on. Without that scene, or a scene similar to it, there's not really much influence shown for the Ring to have. I like the idea of Bilbo telling the Dwarves about Gollum (minus telling them about the Ring itself, because I think that's good suspense for him to keep it secret), but I don't see a spot for it to go without interrupting the flow of everything after they escape the Goblins and Azog. The dangerous and tense atmosphere from then on doesn't leave much room for something like that. Maybe while they're gearing up to leave Beorn's house?

The entire point of having Azog as the main villain was for the set-up and drama with Thorin. If you're going to kill them both, you should have them kill each other. I wouldn't consider it dramatically satisfying if Thorin kills Azog, then gets killed by Bolg or another Orc. I also would not buy that Azog dies by drowning. He needs to be stabbed or decapitated or something. Besides, I love the shot of Azog floating under the ice, eyes close, then snap open and he jumps out. It's quite beautiful and tense Cool

As for me, I'm mostly just interested in additional Company Dwarves battle bits, as I've heard that were filmed from the actors. A few of them didn't get their moment to shine. Though I do know that, even for the EE, there can be too much of that.

One great shot would be Dwalin finding Fili's body and fighting to protect it.


Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Aug 26 2016, 3:04am

Post #4 of 14 (3090 views)
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That's fine [In reply to] Can't Post

we don't have to agree on everything. You're right that it would have been hard to fit that scene in (Bilbo talking about the Riddles), but I thought it was an important scene in the book, and would have liked it in the movie somewhere. Of course, everyone has their own opinions, and for the most part I liked what we got. Lots of others didn't.

You are not the only one that would have liked to see Dwalin recover Fili, just because Fili seemed to be forgotten after he died. The only problem I have with that idea is that, as far as I can tell, no one knows about Kili. To me it would make more sense for Dwalin (or Thorin) to try to find Kili - that's why Thorin went over there to begin with. I liked that Kili went charging off to avenge his brother; honestly I liked Tauriel but wish she hadn't been there. She shifted the focus, IMO. Oh well.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Aug 26 2016, 6:59am

Post #5 of 14 (3073 views)
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Let us not also forget the very nature of the ring itself would prevent Bilbo from ever wanting to let anyone else know it's in his possession [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I like the idea of Bilbo telling the Dwarves about Gollum (minus telling them about the Ring itself, because I think that's good suspense for him to keep it secret)


"Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right... even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye and say, 'No, YOU move.'"
- Captain America: Civil War

(This post was edited by TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense on Aug 26 2016, 7:01am)


Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Aug 26 2016, 2:04pm

Post #6 of 14 (3028 views)
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But didn't he tell them in the book? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have it in front of me, but it seems like he did. Maybe Otaku-Sempei is reading & can answer?

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


LSF
Gondor

Aug 26 2016, 3:39pm

Post #7 of 14 (3014 views)
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I remember reading about that too [In reply to] Can't Post

Which is why I greatly prefer that he does not in the movie (like I greatly prefer a lot of changes from the books for all 6 of these movies, in terms of story/character aspects). It gives the Ring a presence, and scenes where he wears the Ring more suspense.


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Aug 26 2016, 8:21pm

Post #8 of 14 (2983 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

This is one of the many changes that strengthened the core story (for dramatic adaptation purposes, anyway).

"Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right... even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye and say, 'No, YOU move.'"
- Captain America: Civil War


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 26 2016, 8:41pm

Post #9 of 14 (2971 views)
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Yes. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But didn't he tell them in the book? I don't have it in front of me, but it seems like he did. Maybe Otaku-Sempei is reading & can answer?


Yes, Bilbo tells the Dwarves about his ring after he disappears again to drive off and help fighting the spiders. Gandalf must have found out about it from either the surviving Dwarves of the company or from Bilbo himself during the winter they spent with Beorn. There would have been no point in Bilbo trying to keep it a secret from him at that point.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 26 2016, 8:43pm)


StingingFly
Lorien


Aug 26 2016, 9:30pm

Post #10 of 14 (2956 views)
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In DOS... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I would call these shots, "the eyes of Mirkwood." It would be a depiction of the following, "he would see gleams in the darkness round them, and sometimes pairs of yellow or red or green eyes would stare at him from a little distance, and then slowly fade and disappear and slowly shine out again in another place. And sometimes they would gleam down from the branches just above him; and that was most terrifying. But the eyes that he liked the least were horrible pale bulbous sort of eyes. "Insect eyes" he thought, "not animal eyes, only they are much too big."" (The Hobbit, pg. 141)
These shots could have added a sense of dread and terror to Mirkwood, increasing the sense of desperation and concern for the Company.


No One in Particular
Rivendell


Aug 27 2016, 12:12am

Post #11 of 14 (2933 views)
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Print vs. film [In reply to] Can't Post

The scene where Bilbo tells the Dwarves about the Ring works fine on the print version of The Hobbit, because as JRRT originally wrote the story the Ring was not the weapon of mass destruction that it later became. It was just a Magic Ring of Supreme Usefulness for Burglars. There was no need to have a scene like the one in Mirkwood with the albino...thingy, and indeed it would have been out of place.

Since the movie versions were actually filmed as a nine-ish hour prequel, however, PJ felt (rightly) that the Ring in this version needed to match the Ring established in the LoTR (print or celluloid either one). This necessitated something to link the magic trinkets in question. I think the bearer of the Ring from LoTR would be hesitant to tell that many people about it's existence for fear someone might steal it.

My understanding is that late in his life JRRT was attempting a re-write on The Hobbit, to bring it more in line tonally with the trilogy. Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder, if it had ever gotten as far as the Mirkwood chapters, whether he would have written out that part, and left the Dwarves completely in the dark about Bilbo's special burglary tool.

While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Aug 27 2016, 12:46am

Post #12 of 14 (2926 views)
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Nailed it [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right... even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye and say, 'No, YOU move.'"
- Captain America: Civil War


DainPig
Gondor


Sep 8 2016, 11:57pm

Post #13 of 14 (2239 views)
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The second one is out of character [In reply to] Can't Post

The Master is a greedy man who deslikes Bard. All he wants is to leave that burning town as fast as he can and he doesn't care about any prisoner left behind.

"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."

dainpigblog.blogspot.com

historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Oct 20 2016, 8:15pm

Post #14 of 14 (1743 views)
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I know it would have ruined the suspense a bit [In reply to] Can't Post

But I would have LOVED to see Fili's last stand in those tunnels on Ravenhill.

When Azog drags him out, he's very, very pale, and his head is bloody- it's obvious he put up one heck of a fight. I would have liked to have seen that fight, and seen that moment when he was finally disarmed due to simply being overwhelmed, and sudden have to look up at Azog- the very guy they'd been hunting- in person and realize that this was it- he was done.

In showing this, it would have made his last words- "Go! Run!" much more poignant, because we saw his last fight, we saw his fall, we saw his capture- and we would have seen it in his eyes the moment he realized he was done- but he didn't want his brother and uncle and friends to suffer the same fate, and would "fight to the last dwarf"- just like he said they would in Bag End.

So we see that shift in fear, to determination coupled with resignation. He knew his fate, but he'd be damned (pardon the phrase) if Azog was going to kill the others too, and come heck or high water, he was going to warn them.

Brave, defiant, courageous to the last- but noble and selfless. His story was done. His journey was done. But with his dying breath, he tried to spare those he loved from the same fate, and died a hero, just like in the book (but unlike it, at the same time).

I think this would have induced a flood in the audience, because we ALL would have been sobbing at that point. And I think Dean could have nailed the expressions that spoke volumes. Maybe even a line "I may be a dead dwarf, but I won't let you kill my family-not as long as I draw breath" and Azog laughs thinking he's just spewing and thinking about Kili and Thorin- but Fili is dead serious, and we see it.

(it would also be a nice nod to Gimli's stand in the Chamber of Mazarbul in FOTR- that fight to the last dwarf attitude).

So the exchange would go something like this:

Fili- "No, go check the lower levels." Kili looks at him with a questioning look, and Fili adds, "I've got this. Go!" He gives Kili a slight nudge and with one last look of hesitation, Kili goes as told. Then Fili quietly (as a dwarf can) creeps up ahead with one hand hesitantly reaching for his sword hilt, only to remember that Thorin told them not to engage, and it slides down.

Suddenly, he hears the drums and sees the torchlight on the walls, and turns in a panic, realizing that he's a sitting duck. He looks behind him, only to see torchlight behind him, then turns and torchlight is coming from the last direction. Then he looks back, and the panic gives way to resolve as he reaches for his sword hilt anyway.

Orcs come screaming at him, and he kills first one, then the next, and is holding his own- until they start coming out of the other directions. He puts up a valiant fight, before getting hit in the head, is stunned for half a second, and gets forced to the ground and held down. He fights them, maybe even getting a hit in, but they keep holding him down and take his sword away.

Then he looks up, and his eyes widen as Azog saunters in. He taunts him, saying, "Ah, the elder." He reaches down, grasping a bit of Fili's hair, before yanking a bit out, and Fili has to bite his lip to avoid crying out. Azog flicks the hair away like it's nothing, and a slight look of despair and resignation enters his eyes. Azog yanks him up by the throat, and says, "First you, then your brother Kili (remember, Fili hollered "Kili!" when he got hurt at the water gate and Bolg heard it so would know), and then, I will kill Thorin Oakenshield once and for all." Fili looks him in the eye, and says, "I may be a dead dwarf, but I won't let you kill my family-not as long as I draw breath".

Azog laughs, then slams him against a wall. Then the screen fades, and it reverts back to the way the scene was in the movie where he drags Fili out and executes him.

I would have LOVED to have seen that. It's obvious from the blood that Fili put up a fight, and given his rousing eloquence in Bag End about "We're fighters, all of us- to the last dwarf!", I cannot see him doing anything less.



(This post was edited by Cirashala on Oct 20 2016, 8:17pm)

 
 

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