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From frustration to hope: moving beyond the new Blu-ray release

News from Bree
spymaster@theonering.net

Aug 21 2016, 6:55am

Post #1 of 16 (1120 views)
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From frustration to hope: moving beyond the new Blu-ray release Can't Post

The recent announcement of the "Middle-earth Limited Collectors Edition Blu-ray Box Set" has stirred up quite a hornets' nest not only in our message boards, but elsewhere, be it the comment fields of retail sites, or the blogs of people interested in Tolkien, or the home releases of cinematic material in general.

Many are concerned that the reported and rumored price of US$800 for the limited edition is too high, given there is no new cinematic or 'behind-the-scenes' material. Some compare the release unfavorably to Warner Brothers' Harry Potter Wizard's Collection, which provided a bonus disk. Some point out that you could purchase the Blu-rays, a player and a small HDTV for the price of this set. Others point out that one could fly from North America to New Zealand for that amount.

So yes, one feeling is that 'this is way too much money for nothing new but packaging.' But for some, there's more than just a sense of consumer rejection - there's a sense of disappointment, outrage, frustration, and even sadness. Why? What drives that?

Some possibilities:

a) Some fans have been hoping for an 'ultimate edition' with bloopers, extra bonus material, and whatnot. This release is not that.

b) Some feel that "The Hobbit", has not been handled properly from the beginning (too many films, or some other complaint). These fans feel this is yet another example of the studio "blowing it with the material, and with the fans."

c) Some feel that they are being treated as fools. With no new cinematic material, how is it possible that the studio could think that a shelf, nice boxes, some small posters, a notebook, etc. come with such a high markup? Is the shelving made of wood from the white tree at the heart of Minas Tirith? After all, with the US$800 for this release, I could get the extended edition Blu-ray edition of all six films, hardcover copies of the books, along with The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and the History of Middle Earth, a copy of Jens Hansen's One Ring, a version of Arwen's Evenstar pendant, Gandalf and Saruman salt and pepper shakers, and more, and still wonder what I will do with the rest of the money I have saved.

The list of possible causes of frustration goes ever on and on... we Tolkien fans are known to get easily excited!

But let's take a collective deep breath and do two things.

First, let's challenge ourselves - should we be so angry? Consider: in the non-Tolkien collecting world, similarly high-priced 'collectibles' exist. I can go to a local store and pay about $14 for the a copy of Scrabble, or I can go to a specialty retail store and pay $225 for 'Premiere Edition Scrabble'. It's the same game. There are no extra tiles, no new letters in the alphabet, no new special rules for the well-heeled logophile. It's still good old Scrabble, just packaged a different way. Perhaps those premiere edition Scrabble game purchasers are fools - or maybe they just really like Scrabble and want a really cool looking set as a focal point of their family room to reflect their interest in the game. Similarly, the well-heeled and price-unconscious Tolkien fan can indeed decide to spend $800 on this set - and that doesn't harm those who choose not to do the same. So perhaps anger over the high sticker price needs to be reduced.

Second, let's see if there's something deeper going on here. Perhaps the frustration we are expressing is really just a mask covering a deeper emotion. Let's face it. Almost all of us sense that, at a global level, the heady cinematic, culture-impacting days of Middle-Earth are really, truly, over. We are sad. At the turn of the century, our dear Middle-earth was shown to the world, and they loved it. We felt everyone got 'it', and because of it, got us. Now things our different. Our favorite franchise, books that matter so much to us, seem to no longer matter to the world, or even to their film studio, as much as they did just a few short years ago.

But we knew this would happen one day - popular culture cannot stay focused on one thing for any length of time, or it won't have room to take on anything new.

We're sad because, instead of things ending like Bilbo's Long-Expected Party, with the last film loved most of all, and a glorious home release acknowledging a track record of success, we just get a repackaging. No new material. The Middle-earth cinematic saga, the wide cultural exposure to all things Tolkien ends not with a bang, but a whimper.

We are sad - even angry - because we simply didn't think it would end this way.

But perhaps we are wrong to feel that way. Perhaps it's important to remember someone's wise words, and paraphrase them to fit our current situation: "End? No the impact of Middle-earth doesn't end here. The eventual loss of wide cultural exposure is just another path; one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of decades of niche-interest will roll back, and once again, Middle-earth will be on the silver screen. And then you'll see it. White searchlights; and beyond, a premiere of a new generation of films, screening at night after a swift sunset."

This is not the end - this is just the simple pause after a cycle of cultural interest, the end of one long inhalation and exhalation. One day, the world will breathe again. Tolkien fandom has been here before: at the end of a heady time in the 1960s and early 1970s, it went quiet for 25 years, until exploding open in 2001.

Therefore, I believe and hope that twenty years, fifty years, a century from now, our children, their children, and beyond, will continue to find hope and meaning in Middle-earth, and produce new interpretations of it for others to enjoy. On the screen, in plays, in forms and delivery mechanisms not imagined by us now, our offspring will be stirred by Theoden's re-awakening, by Gandalf's wisdom, by Sam's loyalty, and by Frodo's courage. These new interpretations will be worse than Peter Jackson’s vision in some ways, but also much better in others. For that is the way of such things. But whatever successes and flaws these new versions will have, a few things are certain: they will be amazing and inspiring. They will ignite in a new generation a sense of a nobler purpose in life, a joy of simpler living, and an appreciation of works of wonder, because behind all possible interpretations, supporting them, letting them breathe, will be the timeless, unchanging words of the good Professor.

Our job now, as lovers of Middle-earth, is to carry the hope and deeper messages of Tolkien's work forward and ensure it is not lost and forgotten, so that one day, perhaps a day that I or you might not see, the world can re-experience the joy we have felt these past fifteen years.

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Aug 21 2016, 1:51pm)


wizzardly
Rohan


Aug 21 2016, 2:03pm

Post #2 of 16 (1079 views)
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lol [In reply to] Can't Post

WB is really shooting themselves in the foot with this one, and they really should be paying attention to the comments on forums like this. Even the hardcore PJ revisionism apologists are having a hard time supporting this, and realistically, these are the main target consumers of this box set. I personally would not purchase this at this price or even half the price due to my opinion that the final visit to Middle-earth was tragically marred by corporate greed, senseless PC pandering, and a myriad of other problems which I will not bother to reiterate here, but the greatest being a general lack of heart and respect for the original source material and it's beloved author.

At this point WB should just give the last remaining fans they have what they want if they expect to grinch some more moolah this holiday season, and I pray they never get their filthy mitts on any of the other works of J.R.R. Tolkien.



nusilver
Rohan


Aug 21 2016, 3:42pm

Post #3 of 16 (1057 views)
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All very well said [In reply to] Can't Post

Well put. However, I'll disagree with you on one point: I think the sales success or lack thereof of this set is going to affect the rest of us. If it sells well, Warner as it currently exists will see their decisions to ignore Peter's wishes and fleece fans with this exorbitantly priced set as validated, and is more likely to continue down this road with future releases. It's what they do. And if it doesn't sell well, they're bound to think support for the series is on the wane. I'd honestly prefer the latter; let them archive this material until new blood--new blood that actually likes these movies--comes to the studio at some future point and says "wait a minute, why don't we have a version with all that bonus material PJ talked up for a decade? We told him NO? Someone get me on the phone to Wignut!"

"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Aug 21 2016, 9:05pm

Post #4 of 16 (1000 views)
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THIS^ // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I know your heart been broke again
I know your prayers ain’t been answered yet
I know you’re feeling like you got nothing left
Well, lift your head, it ain’t over yet, ain’t over yet so

Move, keep walkin’ soldier keep movin’ on
Move, keep walkin’ until the morning comes
Move, keep walkin’ soldier keep movin’ on
And lift your head, it ain’t over yet, ain’t over yet

Hold on, hold on, the Lord ain’t finished yet
Hold on, hold on, He’ll get you through this
Hold on, hold on, These are the promises
I never will forget, I never will forget
~"Move" by TobyMac


nusilver
Rohan


Aug 21 2016, 10:14pm

Post #5 of 16 (990 views)
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Thinking about this a little more... [In reply to] Can't Post

TORn: I hope you plan on posting a counterpoint to this article, because the more I think about it, the more it feels like you're taking a Warner apologist point of view. Fans on Facebook feel condescended to, and rightly so, because you're effectively telling people they're not allowed to be angry that they can't afford this set and that Warner refused to pay for PJ's new documentary material.

One of the things I loved about TORn back in the early 2000s was that it felt like a haven for the anger and other bad feelings that seemed to have taken over the rest of the Internet (and which have only gotten exponentially worse.) That has eroded over time, but regardless, I think now is not the time to be the meek, happy, peaceful, make-no-trouble Tolkien fan. Now is the time to be angry, and tell Warner with our wallets that we will not be taken advantage of.

"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise


wizzardly
Rohan


Aug 21 2016, 10:48pm

Post #6 of 16 (997 views)
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I've come to learn... [In reply to] Can't Post

that strongly voiced opinions against the decisions of PJ and the movie studio are not generally favored around here. Smile It's best you just take a deep breath, relax and place your pre-order now.


Ettelewen
Rohan

Aug 22 2016, 3:41am

Post #7 of 16 (946 views)
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Hear, Hear! [In reply to] Can't Post

For the record, I won't be buying this set as I already have all of the included discs (yah, I'd love to see the Red Book, but not for this price).

But I really don't get the apparent self-righteous indignation of some fans. If you don't care for the films, don't buy the set. If you feel WB is just cashing in on it, don't buy it. There's no reason to be offended by the studio's offering.

Yes, we'd love to see new material! If it's offered I will certainly buy it if reasonably priced. This apparently isn't that offering, but I'll hope to see it some day.

Again for the record, I love all of the films faults and all and am so very happy to have been able to see them and have copies for my home theater.


Altaira
Superuser


Aug 22 2016, 5:03am

Post #8 of 16 (948 views)
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Oh really? [In reply to] Can't Post

So sure of that are we?

....just wait.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 22 2016, 5:41am

Post #9 of 16 (933 views)
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What Altaira said :D // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

The Hobbit Soundtracks - Being an online archive of information concerning Howard Shore's score for The Hobbit films.


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 22 2016, 8:17am

Post #10 of 16 (925 views)
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Of course it's not the end.... [In reply to] Can't Post

..and Tolkien's work doesn't need any of us to carry its messages forward or ensure that it will never be forgotten. It will stand on its own qualities, as it has always done. I've loved it for decades - long before Peter Jackson made his films. In those days mention of Tolkien was greeted with a disdainful sniff by those who considered themselves the arbiters of good taste but still the books found their foothold in popular culture because of what they are. One of their great strengths is that they speak to different people differently, so that a wide range of ages, interests and cultures can find their own messages within the story.

I love the books. Previous attempts to film them didn't appeal to me but the BBC radio plays were excellent and when Peter Jackson's films came along I've really loved them too - yes, all six of them. They've added so much visually, musically and in terms of story to something that already meant a lot to me. Nothing has ended. I can watch them now whenever I like, just as I can read the books. I don't doubt that some time in the future there will be other interpretations, on film and in other media, because the original stories stand alone as a unique phenomenon in the literary world. And if I live long enough to see them I expect I'll love some and not others, because that's the way of such things.

To the writer of this piece (and I'm sorry, I don't know who you are) I'd say that you're reading far too much into other poster's reactions to the Collector's edition. And I would gently suggest to you that it's never a good idea to assume that you know what others are really feeling and then chide them for it, or deliver a sermon on why they shouldn't feel that way. "We are sad.... we are angry.... Perhaps we are wrong to feel that way". Best to avoid the 'we', I think. I can assure you that I for one don't feel any of the things you think I feel and am faintly amused by all this....

I just responded to the question 'would you buy this boxed set?' !!!!!

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Avandel
Half-elven


Aug 22 2016, 8:58pm

Post #11 of 16 (868 views)
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But..... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
First, let's challenge ourselves - should we be so angry? Consider: in the non-Tolkien collecting world, similarly high-priced 'collectibles' exist. I can go to a local store and pay about $14 for the a copy of Scrabble, or I can go to a specialty retail store and pay $225 for 'Premiere Edition Scrabble'. It's the same game. There are no extra tiles, no new letters in the alphabet, no new special rules for the well-heeled logophile. It's still good old Scrabble, just packaged a different way. Perhaps those premiere edition Scrabble game purchasers are fools - or maybe they just really like Scrabble and want a really cool looking set as a focal point of their family room to reflect their interest in the game. Similarly, the well-heeled and price-unconscious Tolkien fan can indeed decide to spend $800 on this set - and that doesn't harm those who choose not to do the same. So perhaps anger over the high sticker price needs to be reduced.


True enough. But. As someone who likes "stuff" - and it doesn't have to be expensive stuff - if I am going to buy a luxury chess set (when I can pick up a chess set for 5$ at a discount store) that luxury chess set had better be worth it - e.g., it's an art piece. Maybe the pieces are carved wood or stone, maybe they all represent film characters - there's something there, about a collectible, that 1) makes me want it and 2) thinks the price I will pay is worth it.

Consider, say, the Desolation of Smaug Collector set with the dwarf bookends. At the time, I paid ~ 80$ for disks I could have gotten cheaper. Assuming a Blue-ray is $35, roughly, then 80-35 or so = $45, so I paid roughly a little over 20 dollars per book end. For what these are - cast resin plastic, somewhat brittle, but heavy, it was absolutely worth app. $50 or so for those bookends. To me. Because they are so very cool, IMO. Probably overpriced, but re licensing costs, acceptable.

And because I am a fan who likes STUFF - well, hey, it's possible I'd be the kind of fan who couldn't get the card out fast enough. But - that's the problem, isn't it? I'm a fan who likes stuff so I already have lots of STUFF. Theater versions, EE versions, books, figures...so what are you offering that I don't already have?
Offer me a "licensed" solid wood shelf carved by the same folks that worked on Beorn's houseHeart, say, - with a simple bear motif or an acorn and I personally would get excited. But that's not what I'm seeing here. I see a shelf that might be MDF that looks like it was cut on a machine.

IMO, for a series of films known for craftsmanship and detail - IMO that's kind of shameful, reallyFrown. Because PJ's Middle Earth IS IMO an "immersive" experience full of richness - how many of the Chronicles books talk about the blown glass, the textiles, the carvers, the metal workers? How many fans have watched Bilbo flip open his book, and now think how cool would it be to hold that much of Middle Earth in your hands? But is this bit of memorabilia worth paying $800 for?Frown

So that's one problem. It's a superficially nice looking set, but it's pretty unclear to me why the price is so highCrazy. Machined wood (IF it's solid wood), FAUX leather, pretty pictures that a lot of fans have versions of - even the disk art is the same old two-color art (cheap to print). Is the Red Book real leather? Do we need more (small) copies of readily available maps? Even with the included prints, IMO this set should be half of what is being charged.



Quote

Second, let's see if there's something deeper going on here. Perhaps the frustration we are expressing is really just a mask covering a deeper emotion. Let's face it. Almost all of us sense that, at a global level, the heady cinematic, culture-impacting days of Middle-Earth are really, truly, over. We are sad. At the turn of the century, our dear Middle-earth was shown to the world, and they loved it. We felt everyone got 'it', and because of it, got us. Now things our different. Our favorite franchise, books that matter so much to us, seem to no longer matter to the world, or even to their film studio, as much as they did just a few short years ago.


Well, no, I don't feel that way. Depending on the hype, rumored budget, director, etc. IMO BECAUSE of PJ's work, if a "big budget" ME film were in development next year, depending on "positive buzz" IMO there'd be no problem at all filling theaters. It's not the subject matter - it's not as if ME now falls into the categories of Westerns, which in the U.S. anyway are hardly as popular as they once were. Fantasy, sci-fi, no problem. Unless it's a bad movie or is getting a lot of bad buzz, and even that doesn't necessarily sink a film.

No, what gets on my nerves is WB - as other folks have said, their questionable handling of a property that should have, and be, being handled with lavish care. INVESTED in. I can only agree with Nusilver's post - throughout the Hobbit films we've seen, in PR alone, the limp efforts - like all the reshashed images used in posters. It's not just ME - look at WB and the comic book films. And this "ultimate edition" is just, to me, typical of WB - pretty much, like the DOS and BOFA PR - rehash.

MY frustration is that so many rights are apparently owned by a company who is both cheap and cluelessUnimpressed - a company out of touch with the very fans it makes money off ofMad. So busy worrying about its bottom line it apparently got involved with Suicide Squad - at least, PJ seems to have been spared that kind of indignity. I hope.


















Avandel
Half-elven


Aug 22 2016, 9:26pm

Post #12 of 16 (863 views)
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Will disagree here.... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
But I really don't get the apparent self-righteous indignation of some fans. If you don't care for the films, don't buy the set. If you feel WB is just cashing in on it, don't buy it. There's no reason to be offended by the studio's offering.


Because, family/friends, for one thing, may not be as "in the know" - and in seeking a gift for a loved one who IS an ME fan, unwittingly purchases this for a fan who would have gently explained that this isn't the best of purchasesUnimpressed - perhaps. That's happened to me - and what can you do? Hurt the person who is so pleased that they spent so much - maybe even took up a "family collection"?

Another reason is that the "cash-in" is just SO blatant. A far cry from this kind of "fan awareness":

Director J.J. Abrams invited thousands of Star Wars fans to a free concert following their panel at San Diego, California’s Comic-Con event on Friday.
Abrams, who helmed the much-anticipated sequel Star Wars: Episode VII – The Force Awakens, was among the attendees of the panel at San Diego Convention Center’s fabled Hall H, along with the franchise’s stars Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher, among others.
At the end of the event, Abrams stunned the over 6,000 fans in the venue by asking them, “Who wants to go see a live Star Wars concert right now?”
After the crowd enthusiastically cheered, he said, “We are literally all going to walk to a location together and experience a Star Wars concert tonight. We only have room for all of you.”
The audience members were then led out of the venue by a group of Stormtroopers, who brought them to a nearby outdoor amphitheater by the waterfront.
Fans were handed lightsabers as they entered the concert, where Abrams and the rest of the Star Wars cast joined him on stage to introduce the gig.


Disney may have its own issues, but I suspect Disney would have known, if they owned the rights to the ME films, to actually look at a web site once in while and see what fans are hungry for. Unimpressed When is the last time anyone wanted to cheer Warner Brothers? Anyone? Hmm - for me I guess it would have been the DOS fan event; but I also remember being shocked that the BOFA PR images were being recycled from DOS, and never mind that terrible release schedule of the BOFA EE - clueless. Just clueless.



Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Aug 23 2016, 6:02pm

Post #13 of 16 (825 views)
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Offended [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
There's no reason to be offended by the studio's offering.


Well, clearly a lot of us are. And if you read this article, you'd see the reasons laid out very nicely.


LittleHobbit
Lorien

Aug 24 2016, 5:24am

Post #14 of 16 (802 views)
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How could that possibly be true... [In reply to] Can't Post

if all you do here is post against the Hobbit trilogy and PJ and you're not banned for life? Tongue


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 24 2016, 7:01am

Post #15 of 16 (788 views)
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We welcome all opinions here [In reply to] Can't Post

And do not criticize others who may disagree with us, as long as they comply with our Terms and Conditions.


LittleHobbit
Lorien

Aug 28 2016, 12:01pm

Post #16 of 16 (658 views)
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I apologize... [In reply to] Can't Post

It was just a joke. I wasn't trying to attack or offend anyone. Sorry if it appeared that way. Smile

 
 

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