|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 8 2016, 7:25pm
Post #1 of 24
(1938 views)
Shortcut
|
Re Fili/Kili at Ravenhill, we probably know already, but those script changes!...
|
Can't Post
|
|
At Dean’s vip panel I asked two questions, I was very lucky. When I stood up I said “It’s so nice to see you again so soon”. Dean said my name immediately “Lea!” This is a blast for me! My first question was: Graham said they are like high-school kids when they are together and they even have a Yearbook. The title of Fili is Best Dancer. Would you mind to show us some dance moves here? Dean was laughing" HAHAHA, NO!“ I insisted "Come on please I’ve seen you dance before. It was awesome”. Dean asked curiously" where did you see me dancing?“ I said it was at Hobbitcon. Dean said "Oh Germany! That’s because so much beer!” And my second question was: if there is a second chance would Fili still choose to fight Azog alone to protect Kili at Ravenhill? Dean said it was not like in the movie at the beginning. The script was like the audition that the brothers fight together then Kili die first and Fili would hold him and cried and scream to Azog then go to fight him. As we know they changed it finally. He was a little disappointed. Dean said he prefers the original one. Fili shouldn’t be left alone. http://hanarowlrowl.tumblr.com/...-two-questions-i-was Well, we probably already knew something like that from watching the Appendices. Would Thorin have already fallen in the original script? I think not, or maybe he got wounded and went after Azog after his nephews fell... Does it even matter, w. the movies completed? Well, yeah, it DOES IMO, if only for the *delicious* possibility of unseen bits and pieces of footage sitting on a drive someplace gathering DUST MOTES. Or not, since original script doesn't mean actually filmed. But IMO *grousing* Dean is absolutely correct, he shouldn't have been left alone. I suppose he wasn't, ultimately. *Gosh darn* that IMO over-tight BOFA editing - e.g, IMO someone/dwarves should have come for Fili...! *Sigh*. Meanwhile, there's something not right about this picture. The cosplayers are very cool, OB looks handsome - I dunno... The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies' world premiere at the Empire Leicester Square cinema - Arrivals Featuring: Orlando Bloom Where: London, United Kingdom When: 01 Dec 2014 Credit: Euan Cherry/WENN.com Elves just get everywhere I guess.... But Fili DID get an epic magazine cover.... Just when you have moved on, grateful for the incredible ride, thinking what a *miracle* these films are, how if the power holds re storms you are DEFINITELY hunkering down for some Hobbit-watching - something you trip over online comes along, like a pin you accidently jab under a fingernail....still... http://rachellefryatt.deviantart.com/...r-of-Durin-347753518 I'm gonna thoroughly enjoy re-watching Thorin and his Heir. And one day I hope to meet Dean and add to the *hoard* of comments re wanting to have had more of his Fili. (Kudos to these actors too for the courtesy and patience they must have to have at these cons) It was a happy accident, but IMO they look RELATED. And GLORIOUS side by side.
|
|
|
Thrain II
Lorien
Jul 9 2016, 10:30am
Post #2 of 24
(1827 views)
Shortcut
|
another example where it was originally meant to be like in the book, but changed at the later stage. It is too late to be angry about it anymore. Well we all know how much PJ likes elves, so that picture from the premiere doesn't surprise me one bit. As for the Empire magazine, I have that one, great memories...
|
|
|
Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 9 2016, 2:14pm
Post #4 of 24
(1806 views)
Shortcut
|
OMG, I don't think I could have handled that I'm pretty sure that they'd originally planned for both brothers to be laying next to each other, and Bilbo grieving, saying something like "Oh, this is too much" (totally agree, what was Tolkien THINKING killing off both of them???) - but then they opted for that "quiet scene" with Bilbo & Gandalf sitting next to each other. That scene is so powerful, I don't think I'd trade it for anything (except an alternate ending where one or all of them survive). At least Fili got a proper funeral scene - I suppose we should all be grateful.... Yeah, they DID do a great job making them look related! Dean was a GREAT casting choice - if there's one thing PJ ca do, it's cast a movie!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
|
|
|
LSF
Gondor
Jul 9 2016, 5:16pm
Post #5 of 24
(1783 views)
Shortcut
|
Fili's death is perfect for me- sudden, brutal, heartbreaking... What I would add, since they did want to do something with Dwalin after he helps Bilbo (and Dwalin going for Thorin/Azog does not work), is have Dwalin finding Fili's body and protecting it and fighting off orcs around it.
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 9 2016, 8:55pm
Post #7 of 24
(1749 views)
Shortcut
|
OMG, I don't think I could have handled that I'm pretty sure that they'd originally planned for both brothers to be laying next to each other, and Bilbo grieving, saying something like "Oh, this is too much" (totally agree, what was Tolkien THINKING killing off both of them???) - but then they opted for that "quiet scene" with Bilbo & Gandalf sitting next to each other. That scene is so powerful, I don't think I'd trade it for anything (except an alternate ending where one or all of them survive). At least Fili got a proper funeral scene - I suppose we should all be grateful.... Yeah, they DID do a great job making them look related! Dean was a GREAT casting choice - if there's one thing PJ ca do, it's cast a movie! Well, thanks to TORn and TORn members and even learning that when Tolkien picks up and finishes the Hobbit there's a decidedly darker turn - as a "children's tale" I suppose being read, read aloud - w. the dwarves not being heavily detailed and the battle sort of being breezed through - re Fili and Kili in the book, it's not the same impact IMO. Nor was this film populated with sort of uber-gritty, grim dwarves who don't say much and are pretty much hairy squares - something like 300 - Rise of an Empire where there's just blood and stuff everywhere. Anyway, I'd agree that Bilbo/Thorin was exquisitely handled along with Bilbo/Gandalf. And Dean was such great casting choice - ended up being a great spokesperson too on the Appendices - he makes me smile. Terrific personality. I hope I'm not ungrateful! - I'm sure I'm not, in that these films might not have ever existed and w. WETA's sense of aesthetic and PJ's eye for framing a shot and his casting instincts. I just get *twinges* now and again - frustration! And yeah, I'll be *flamed* by many, I'm sure, but I'm always gonna believe that BOFA would have made more money if PJ had tweaked the ending and the Durins had lived. And PJ had filmed 2 endings. Because, IMO, while I had never thought about is before, really, there's a sort of end-of-days film, for example, where IMO there's no payoff, really, w. the main character's innocent suffering - I was pretty irate about that one (don't want to name the film because it'd spoil it). Also, by staying with canon more or less (no doubt to the relief of many) it probably shut the door on the *dreaded fan-fiction non-Tolkien sequel* (I don't care, tho. I would have loved a sequel that had more of Thorin & co. fighting in the North as LOTR went on...could have had Thranduil and so on. Gotta love fan-fiction...) E.g., IMO, from what I noticed in theaters, I suspect with a happier ending there would have been more repeat viewers. It's tough going for repeat views with that sort of ending - I know I didn't see BOFA in theater as much as DOS (tho that was partly re the pacing and shortness of the film, too. Couldn't wait to get the disks, tho.) Also, IMO, with THIS Thorin, and THESE brothers, other than Bilbo and the dwarves being devastated (and some in the audience feeling bad - or at least it was completely quiet every time I watched in theater) I still don't see the payoff. Well, except for Thorin being extraordinary as a character until his last breath. And Fili truly being the Heir of Durin. And Bilbo's and Thorin's amazing relationship depicted by amazing actors. Although this has been discussed on TORn as well. That's an interesting pondering, though, for me - if it ever came up in those discussion forums that seeing the brothers fall together, more or less, was debated as being too traumatic re audiences having children? Just too much of an overload? Aside from Kili and Tauriel taking on Bolg, eventually. Hopefully one day more details will come out - tho I would rather have more footage. OT but I have been staring at this poster for years, so I need to BUY it. Some beautiful art came out of the Hobbit films.
|
|
|
lionoferebor
Rohan
Jul 9 2016, 11:25pm
Post #8 of 24
(1739 views)
Shortcut
|
Fili's death is perfect for me- sudden, brutal, heartbreaking... What I would add, since they did want to do something with Dwalin after he helps Bilbo (and Dwalin going for Thorin/Azog does not work), is have Dwalin finding Fili's body and protecting it and fighting off orcs around it. ...though had PJ gone with what was originally planned, as Dean described, I would have been pleased with that too...because, IMO, Fili -heartbroken over his brother's death - taking on Azog would been just as moving, but in a different way.
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 10 2016, 6:39pm
Post #11 of 24
(1658 views)
Shortcut
|
Re the *twinge* - I don't think it's a fool's hope - that one day there will be some sort of huge, re-cut extended edition of the Hobbit films. Because of the technology advances, I don't think actual problems w. the film itself - I mean the physical media the frames are on - is a problem w. the Hobbit films. PJ & co. seem to be laying low re these films (burn-out?) - but IMO it would make sense for WB to release a special edition, one day.
|
|
|
LSF
Gondor
Jul 10 2016, 7:30pm
Post #12 of 24
(1648 views)
Shortcut
|
I consider the extended editions as the "director re-cut." If those are the versions PJ wanted to make, then I don't want him to do another re-cut with more or alternate scenes. Would I like to see whatever was filmed that got deleted? Yes., but not put back in the movie if he doesn't want them in. As for the special edition thing, Michael Pellerin, the guy in charge of the Appendices for both LOTR and Hobbit, did say such a thing was in the plan, like how they did the Harry Potter Ultimate Editions. Though it did not sound like they were to add in deleted scenes into the movies, but to have a deleted scenes section and have more Appendices material. He said, in regards to Appendices material, that they purposely chose what to put out on the EE blurays, and what to save for the Ultimate Edition.
|
|
|
lionoferebor
Rohan
Jul 10 2016, 7:34pm
Post #13 of 24
(1649 views)
Shortcut
|
PJ & co. seem to be laying low re these films (burn-out?)... I'm sure at this time in the game, PJ & co. have moved on. Still, looking back to the days leading up to BOFA - and more so the days leading up to the EE - PJ and co. - IMO - started to become rather quiet well before the ride was over.
|
|
|
TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan
Jul 10 2016, 9:08pm
Post #14 of 24
(1632 views)
Shortcut
|
I have no idea the actual reasons and have no evidence to back this up
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
But my heart tells me it was because of the critical reception of the first two films (in comparison to the critical adoration lathered upon LotR - rightfully so - and the bizarre near-universal critical acclaim for King Kong, which is still a good 100 - 110 minute action/adventure movie trapped inside of a needlessly bursting at the seams with fluff three hours-plus movie).
"Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right... even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye and say, 'No, YOU move.'" - Captain America: Civil War
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 10 2016, 9:16pm
Post #15 of 24
(1626 views)
Shortcut
|
I'm sure at this time in the game, PJ & co. have moved on. Still, looking back to the days leading up to BOFA - and more so the days leading up to the EE - PJ and co. - IMO - started to become rather quiet well before the ride was over. One thing that sticks in my head is Martin Freeman talking about the pickups, how "there was no messing" around and there were other cast comments about the very long days. And, as you say, there was a lot of silence - well, where, all things considered, I thought there wouldn't be. But I can completely understand PJ becoming - with his work ethic and drive - utterly, completely exhausted and wanting some distance from ME, at least for a time.
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 10 2016, 9:44pm
Post #17 of 24
(1619 views)
Shortcut
|
But my heart tells me it was because of the critical reception of the first two films (in comparison to the critical adoration lathered upon LotR - rightfully so - and the bizarre near-universal critical acclaim for King Kong, which is still a good 100 - 110 minute action/adventure movie trapped inside of a needlessly bursting at the seams with fluff three hours-plus movie). Surely PJ & co. have been in the business long enough to know that "critics" - as a whole - seem to have kind of a baffling herd mentality - or so it seems to me. Especially these days when some blogger can have some association with a web site and all of sudden they are considered "press" and "a critic". Plus, PJ has apparently run the gamut of negative reactions before. Finally, as PJ openly stated, he "was going to make the kind of movie he wanted to make". IMO any intelligent adult who takes on a well-known work and pretty much does what he did with LOTR - make some significant changes - must know they may be in for it, both from the press, and fans. Might work out, might not; and even if you slavishly adhere to canon as much as possible, a whole raft of things can not work as well as you hope. There's no way to even know if LOTR were released today it would get the same reception it apparently did, assuming the stuff that looks more dated was up-to-date appearing. For all we know it would be dismissed as "ponderous", "grim", "bloated"...But IMO any director and those in this business must have to develop thick skins - PJ seemed to know that when he said something to the effect of "you make something, and put it out, and hope that people like it..." Besides, all three Hobbit films were blockbusters, all three top sellers. *Shrug* I really don't think these films were made with the idea of little gold statues in mind. Not that they didn't deserve plenty, IMO.
|
|
|
Kim
Valinor
Jul 10 2016, 9:50pm
Post #19 of 24
(1614 views)
Shortcut
|
Just trying to help with the facts. I purposefully didn't post a pic with me standing in front of him.
"All we have to decide is what to do in the time that is given us."
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 10 2016, 10:01pm
Post #20 of 24
(1610 views)
Shortcut
|
*AWKWARD!!!*
I consider the extended editions as the "director re-cut." If those are the versions PJ wanted to make, then I don't want him to do another re-cut with more or alternate scenes. Would I like to see whatever was filmed that got deleted? Yes., but not put back in the movie if he doesn't want them in. For myself - so uncomfortable! thinking of telling a noted director how to do his business. But. Yes, I would tell Sir Jackson to at least put the dwarf/Thranduil scene back in, and any possible rumored footage of the dwarves re BOFA, and add more Beorn - stuff that's been talked about before, I know... But would I tell PJ that? Sure. Not that he asked me. And with reverence and respect and many bows. Because even the greatest of us may see things one way, but maybe things would be really great another way, even if the person making something isn't enthused and is more enthused about something else. And I think BOFA's often rapid-fire pace was a mistake, even if I understand the logic. It's lovely to hear that there seems to be? an actual long term plan - eventually - for an "ultimate edition/collection". That would really be something to look forward to, and I shamelessly hope for gorgeous packaging, too. It's IMO appropriate for these films.
|
|
|
LSF
Gondor
Jul 10 2016, 10:28pm
Post #21 of 24
(1603 views)
Shortcut
|
PJ has a huge advantage over our opinions...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
...on what he left out. He has seen the scenes and ideas in question. He also had other people helping him make these decisions. At best, we have seen snippets (except for the acorn in Dale scene and Dwalin running to save Thorin from Azog). We don't have the advantage to accurately judge if those scenes would work or not. Maybe they were good ideas, but something about the filming of it didn't work, or when put in it messes up pacing or intended emotion or something. The idea of Dwalin trying to save Thorin from Azog sounds good on paper, but when they showed it in the Appendices, I'm glad it got cut because it does mess up the entire point and emotion of Thorin's self-sacrifice. And if we do get to see the deleted scenes in the ultimate edition, and can judge, I wouldn't tell him to put the ones I think work back in. I could wish that they had been, but they aren't, so I accept it. I'm not saying he's above suggestions from fans, but I think there's a difference between suggesting/asking why this scene was deleted, and telling him that it would make the movie better (subjectively) for me and he should do it.
|
|
|
Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 11 2016, 2:51pm
Post #22 of 24
(1540 views)
Shortcut
|
""Big" names sell films (among other things) and the general public is more familiar with Liv and Drew vs. Viggo and Neve. Not saying I agree with it, but it's the way it is." The "general public" may have been more familiar with Liv BEFORE FoTR came out, but AFTER that??? I seem to remember Viggo being at the top of a lot of ladies' lists (along with Orlando, but that's another subject). And she was in TTT for less than 5 minutes - oh, I don't think I'm ever gonna get over that!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 11 2016, 9:02pm
Post #23 of 24
(1498 views)
Shortcut
|
...on what he left out. He has seen the scenes and ideas in question. He also had other people helping him make these decisions. At best, we have seen snippets (except for the acorn in Dale scene and Dwalin running to save Thorin from Azog). We don't have the advantage to accurately judge if those scenes would work or not. And too, I seem to vaguely remember PJ either saying outright you make mistakes and/or the changes you might make in hindsight...something like that. Always love that PJ is so HUMAN about his approach - e.g., not arrogant while definitely being the boss. Hmm, well, I think the dwarf/Thranduil scene WOULD make the films better, tho I suppose that is subjective. On the other hand, IMO, there's quite a good flow anyway re those scenes. And I think removing the Dwalin scene was the right thing to do, now matter how good the scene was. One of my BOFA frustrations is always going to be that IMO useless blip of Legolas hollering for Tauriel, which to me breaks the flow of Thorin/Azog, IMO there didn't need to be ANOTHER scene break for another character. Anyway, nice response!
|
|
|
Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Aug 6 2016, 2:56pm
Post #24 of 24
(1032 views)
Shortcut
|
Interesting to know about Fili/Kili
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Annoying that it didn't come out that way finally, but still interesting. With a little distance, I can say this: I figure my imagination handled this perfectly competently before the movies, and is quite capable of replacing what I don't like in the movies , so I'm okay with all this now. Not really happy about those certain bits, but okay. The parts I did like were so wonderful that I can't complain (though I still might, now and again ). I mean, I NEVER would have given book!Thorin the time of day, and movie!Thorin has been SO MUCH FUN!
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
|
|
|
|
|