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Faramir5
Bree
Jun 16 2016, 5:11pm
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If The Children of Hurin went to the big screen...
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Although Christopher Tolkien is adamant against selling the rights to stories such as The Children of Hurin, I do think it's safe to say that it will eventually make its way onto the big screen. Maybe not soon, but eventually. With that said...even if the hypothetical director/writers were to do the story justice and not change it too much, do you think the tale of Turin would do well as a movie? Keeping in mind how grim with Turin killing quite a few characters as well as accidentally marrying his sister and ending his own life.
Would audiences leave the theater depressed? Are there changes you'd recommend to leave audiences satisfied at the end (yet keeping the dark tone to the story)? Would it be rated R?
Post your thoughts below! :)
(This post was edited by Faramir5 on Jun 16 2016, 5:11pm)
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squire
Half-elven
Jun 16 2016, 6:15pm
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You're making an excellent argument for it not to do so
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I guess the biggest problem is the idea that it must be filmed, because it's a Tolkien book. Audiences are screaming for more Tolkien movies, etc. Well, Tolkien on film has now been defined by Jackson and his crew for at least a generation, as massive quest epics with ensemble casts and likable heroes at their core. Children of Hurin doesn't really fit that model - deliberately, as far as the author was concerned - and to make it fit would, as you put it, not "do the story justice."
It's also not that good a book in its own right. Christopher Tolkien did a workmanlike job with the material at hand, but as Shippey once said, the storyline of Hurin and Turin has an excess of plot due to the incremental way in which Tolkien composed it. Then the dialogue is deliberately flattened; the characters are pretty unpleasant and utterly humorless; and much of what happens and why is told to us, rather than shown to us.
One way to think of it is this: pitch the book to a Hollywood producer, as it's written, but leave out who the author is. If a producer could be found who would still say yes, then there you are: film gets made and does well. If it's only getting made because it's by Tolkien - without significant changes that would take it away from what its author intended it to be - by folks expecting to reach the same audience in the same way, I think it's a hopeless cause.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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a.s.
Valinor
Jun 16 2016, 7:51pm
Post #3 of 57
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Audiences would leave the theater, period.
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It would be rated "B", for capital- B boring.
So, I am biased towards LOTR, this is true, but COH (in my opinion, your opinion may vary) is not only dark, but a total and complete and uninterrupted bore to read.
(I say this as a Tolkien fan; I can only imagine what a non-fan might say.)
I can't imagine anyone who would find enjoyment in watching it.
However, I'm an opinionated old broad.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"A safe fairyland is untrue to all worlds." JRR Tolkien, Letters.
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Morthoron
Gondor
Jun 16 2016, 10:44pm
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To me, the story of Hurin and Turin reads like history, which in itself is superb as another chronology retold against the panoply of the 1st Age. I actually loved how the Tolkiens (writing father and editor son) approached The Silmarillion conceptually with the archaic language and distant characterizations. It reads like Homeric epics or Norse mythology.
However, it is not in anyway a novelization of the sort that made LotR enchanting. In Children of Hurin we get glimpses of characters from a distant past, shorn of what we would consider well-rounded literary roles, as if a bard or shanachie was reciting rote passages. This would not translate to film without a major rewrite, and I would not care to see it as a major rewrite.
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jun 17 2016, 1:17am
Post #5 of 57
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What similar stories have you enjoyed onscreen?
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Can you name a few movies that you like that make good use of some of the elements that characterize The Children of Húrin? I have a few titles in mind, but I'm curious to know your thoughts first.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 17 2016, 1:49am
Post #6 of 57
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The Children of Hurin certainly wouldn't make for a very good 'feel-good' movie or blockbuster, but it could certainly be adapted into film. It might be more suitable, though, to the form of opera. Hurin is very much in the tradition of Der Ring des Nibelungen.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
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Faramir5
Bree
Jun 17 2016, 1:51am
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I hadn't thought of that. I imagined the story as I read through it...which is typical for reading in general of course. I can't think of any epic movies with such dark tone as The Children of Hurin.
I'm curious to hear what movies you have in mind. Also, a side question...do you think a movie based on Tuor's adventures would be plausible? It's epic, yet not so dark with constant death and incest that could be more appropriate for audiences.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 17 2016, 3:00am
Post #9 of 57
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The Silmarillion - A Rock Opera
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Just kidding! 
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jun 17 2016, 6:03am
Post #10 of 57
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Bleak story, flawed hero? Quick, someone write up a comparison between Glaurung and Anton Chigurh.
Though maybe the best comparison is not to film but to theatrical tragedy. Oedipus Rex? Macbeth?
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Gianna
Rohan
Jun 17 2016, 12:57pm
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A Hollywood adaptation of COH would be puke-worthy, but
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...if some Tolkien-loving independent filmmaker made it into more of an art film, I think it would be beautiful. Not being Hollywood, it would be okay to leave the audience unsatisfied, as a faithful adaptation would have to do. Also, Hollywood would turn the gore and tragedy into buffoonery, whilst an art film could do it beautifully. (For example, I've thought that instead of showing out-and-out nudity when Nienor is running through the woods, you could simply film from a distance through trees, focussing more on articles of clothing caught on branches.) I do think it would likely have to be rated R though.
To alleviate some depression at the end of the film we could have a shot of Huor (whom we'd recognise because he appears earlier in the story), perhaps mourning over Turin's family, and then a montage of snapshots of events in his line from Tuor down to Aragorn, ending with the downfall of Barad-dur and Aragorn's coronation, and a voiceover explaining a very brief overview of how Aragorn was descended from Turin's cousin. Could be interesting!
I would love to see a COH movie. As long as it isn't Hollywood. Perhaps I'll do it myself someday. 
~There's some good left in this world. And it's worth fighting for.~
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My website...
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Jun 17 2016, 12:59pm
Post #13 of 57
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Rife with accidental murder, attempts to do good deeds (and failing miserably), loads of dramatic irony and surprise incest to boot.
Glaurung and Anton Chigurh are both nigh-unstoppable forces that are working for someone else; the main difference is that Glaurung is more subordinate to Morgoth than Chigurh is to whoever hired him. Oh, and Chigurh is still alive at the story's end, with only a broken arm.
Ironically, I had Javier Bardem in mind as the voice and motion capture of Glaurung.
I always follow my job through.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Jun 17 2016, 12:59pm)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Jun 17 2016, 1:04pm
Post #14 of 57
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This is a fan-cast I made for The Children of Hurin a while back. I've made a change with Morwen.
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The Children of Hurin
Director: Alejandro Innaritu (The Revenant)
Writer: Andrew Davies (Pride and Prejudice)
Music: John Williams or Trevor Jones
Turin: Liam Hemsworth (The Hunger Games, The Expendables 2)
Nienor: Elizabeth Debicki (The Great Gatsby, The Man from U.N.C.L.E)
Brandir: Iain de Caestecker (Marvel's Agents of Shield)
Glaurung: Javier Bardem (No Country for Old Men, Skyfall)
Beleg: J.J. Feild (Northanger Abbey, Captain America: The First Avenger)
Gwindor: Charlie Cox (Daredevil)
Finduilas: Rosie Huntington-Whiteley (Mad Max: Fury Road)
Orodreth: Andrew Lincoln (The Walking Dead, Love Actually, Wuthering Heights (2009))
Androg: Sharlto Copley (District 9, Elysium)
Mim: Timothy Spall (Harry Potter, Oliver Twist)
Hurin: Nick Blood (Marvel's Agents of Shield)
Morwen: Cobie Smulders (The Avengers)
Saeros: Burn Gorman (Wuthering Heights (2009))
Brodda: Arnold Vosloo (The Mummy)
Sador Labadal: Brandon Gleeson (Harry Potter, Braveheart, Cold Mountain)
And Kevin Spacey as the narrator
I always follow my job through.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Jun 17 2016, 1:17pm)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Jun 17 2016, 1:15pm
Post #15 of 57
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I think if The Children of Hurin was made in the 1960s
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Sergio Leone would have been a perfect director and Clint Eastwood an excellent Turin.
I always follow my job through.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Jun 17 2016, 1:31pm
Post #16 of 57
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I always follow my job through.
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jun 17 2016, 4:35pm
Post #17 of 57
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Tolkien actually identifies Oedipus as a Túrin analogue.
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I ought to have remembered that earlier, since we've discussed it before, as for example in this post by Wynnie on the old boards, which quotes Tolkien in his long letter to Milton Waldman writing:
"There is the Children of Húrin, the tragic tale of Túrin Turambar and his sister Niniel -- of which Túrin is the hero: a figure that might be said (by people who like that sort of thing, though it is not very useful) to be derived from elements in Sigurd the Volsung, Oedipus, and the Finnish Kullervo."
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 17 2016, 6:30pm
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Kullervo and Sigurd seem to be the principle influences
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Turin's incestuous relationship is with his sister (as did Kullervo), not his mother. And then there is the issue of the dragon (Fafnir/Glaurung). I can see the connection, though, to Oedipus and a history of bad decisions.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 17 2016, 6:34pm)
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jun 17 2016, 7:35pm
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I like Wynnie's comparison of Brandir to Tiresias. //
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jun 17 2016, 7:38pm
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Nienor's nudity should evoke Saeros's earlier in the film. //
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Jun 19 2016, 3:00am
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Except that someone else stripped Saeros (Turin),
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While Nienor stripped herself.
I always follow my job through.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Jun 19 2016, 3:01am
Post #22 of 57
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The Revenant, The Usual Suspects.
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I always follow my job through.
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jun 19 2016, 5:32am
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Ah, but that just proved Saeros was right.
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Saeros had insulted Túrin by suggesting that the women of Hithlum would "run like deer clad only in their hair". So when Túrin is set upon by Saeros the next day, Túrin decides to make Saeros act out his own insult. What irony that a woman of Hithlum later would do just as Saeros said!
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Jun 19 2016, 12:08pm
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I always follow my job through.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Jun 19 2016, 12:11pm
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By the way, did you read my comparison of Glarung and Anton Chigurh?
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What did you think?
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