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Avandel
Half-elven
Jun 2 2016, 7:47pm
Post #1 of 14
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A blog link...Durins, colours, and honey pots, or Why Fili was pushed aside by WETA
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http://marrecarandgi.tumblr.com/...pots-or-why-fili-was
The Hobbit as a book is not about visuals - you don’t actually see what’s going on. Yet Tolkien gave every family group of Dwarves their own distinctive colour palette to help us visualise them. Fili and Kili had identical blue hoods while Thorin had a light blue one. Obviously, it really bother me that Fili, the appointed heir, doesn’t share the blue palette with Thorin and Kili. So, I decided to dig into it....
Clearly, cour blue was set up as an important element of Durins’ appearance by Tolkien himself, and WETA creative team realized how important it to keep colours consistent...I see Kili sharing the same palette with Thorin, but Fili hasn’t a single shred of blue on him!...
Okay, that’s actually untrue, the inside of his undertunic is blue.So, good job here, guys!
...I think you can guess how upset this makes me because Fili as a character was so obviously pushed aside by Jackson and Co, a lot of casual movie goers didn’t even picked up on his overall importance as the heir since the movies failed to emphasise the fact that related to Thorin and Kili. If WETA actually knew that Durins should share the colour palette (that Tolkien himself gave them), why did the separate Fili specifically?
I tripped over this (looking for a picture of Balin. Who wears red. Looks good w. the white beard...). Anyway I thought this was fascinating reading. I love costumes and costume details. The author clearly read quite a lot of WETA material.
But while I can share distress about Fili, I personally can't share distress over Fili's costume or colors. Because I remember reading that not only were nods to the original material done with using more subtle shades of the mentioned colors in the book, the WETA books talk about how the Durins were tied together costume-wise by the richness of the leather, and the motifs. There were even specific motifs created for Fili. Fili IMO, as he enters Bag End, looks LUSH. Richly colored hair, rich leather, plenty of weapons.
I also personally didn't put a lot of symbolism into Thorin's Laketown gear, which apparently at one point was supposed to be another dwarf's outfit but was switched, and the garishness was the result of the Master's bad taste. The idea was to make the dwarves awkwardly dressed in "man" clothes, without getting outright ridiculous, especially for Thorin.
Also Fili has spectacular BOFA armor. Very princely.
But I thought it was an interesting take. Not one I personally agree with. But it's the first time I noticed that Kili was tested w. blue eyes.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jun 2 2016, 9:09pm
Post #2 of 14
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Fili was pushed aside by the script
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Honestly I never thought much about the color of their clothes. For sure Kili more strongly resembles Thorin, you don't need blue clothes to show that, but I always assumed they had Fili in browns to accentuate his lovely golden locks. His eyes are every bit as blue as Thorin's, maybe more pale blue but still they are very blue. But I'm sure Fili does have a blue hood; in the scene in Bag End where they're moving furniture out of the dining room you briefly see that blue hood on Fili's back. Unfortunately I don't have a screenshot of that scene, but here is a shot from the Warg chase in AUJ:
I had to reduce the size of the pic considerably, but you can see Fili has some blue trim near his collar. Also, Kili's leather coat is brown, it's the tunic underneath that's blue. Then there's this pic:
Promo shot for BOT5A, but you can see Fili is pretty decked out in blue here. Anyway, that's my two cents worth. I leave you with this:
_
Blonde locks indeed - doesn't get any better than this!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jun 2 2016, 10:03pm
Post #3 of 14
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A quick PS job....
*Shrug*. Maybe putting Fili in blue re the opening scenes was just too much blue. *Shrug* IMO Fili looks great either way ....
Yep, blue here...
And too, IMO, the author doesn't mention the effects of the lighting shifts and filters and color retouching, overall. Whatever colors were used, they had to work well through whatever final work PJ was going to do, as well as the cameras - a lot of us have seen the dwarves in the beefed-up burgundy makeup (because the cameras were sucking the reds out) and read about how a fabric for Bilbo was rejected because it looked terrible on camera.
The so-called "rainbow eyes" of Thorin (as dubbed by some fans). We know RA has a lovely ice-blue eye color. But re the cameras and filters, they seemed to shift, depending, from blue to black to sometimes green....
So whatever colors were chosen, not only did they have to work when the dwarves were together, but work with the lighting and filters. I actually thought Thorin's clothes at Bag End were black, at first.
Also, did Dean O'Gorman just step into RK's costume, e.g., were the colors really chosen originally to look good on RK, and not DO at all? Because Dean was described as "having to just get in there...."
IMO it's an interesting look by the author, but to me it was obvious from the layers and textures that the Durins were not poor and hungry (and not Balin, Gloin, and Dori, either, for sure....). Bombur I think distinctly has more "peasant-like" clothes - a rough woven shirt and so on.
(This post was edited by Avandel on Jun 2 2016, 10:07pm)
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jun 2 2016, 10:25pm
Post #4 of 14
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My thought on that (and from the few pics available) is that RK's Fili was just a taller blonde, meaning they always intended for Fili to be a blonde. I'm sure they sized the clothing down, as Dean is about 5'9" whereas RK is 6' or so. They didn't look baggy on him, IMO, although there was one poster a while back who seemed to think the costume swallowed him. Nah, I think he looks fine!
Yep, mighty fine!!!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jun 2 2016, 10:41pm
Post #5 of 14
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Well, I don't agree with that re the costume....
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I'm sure they sized the clothing down, as Dean is about 5'9" whereas RK is 6' or so. They didn't look baggy on him, IMO, although there was one poster a while back who seemed to think the costume swallowed him. Nah, I think he looks fine!
For one thing, the dwarves were wearing those "fatsuits" to bulk them out, and Fili and Kili still looked slimmer (as did Ori) re being younger dwarves. Actually I remember thinking how good Fili's coat looks, because we see him from the back in AUJ.
And on a random side note, I still want this scene :
Even if it's Fili just asking Thorin if they can stop at the Kentucky Fried Chicken ahead . I don't care. Fili and Thorin look spectacular side by side . And related, even.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jun 2 2016, 11:36pm
Post #6 of 14
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Well, maybe I'll write you a fanfic!
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And on a random side note, I still want this scene : Even if it's Fili just asking Thorin if they can stop at the Kentucky Fried Chicken ahead . I don't care. Fili and Thorin look spectacular side by side . And related, even.
They're probably wondering what's keeping the Par-tei girls!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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LSF
Gondor
Jun 2 2016, 11:47pm
Post #7 of 14
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"Also, did Dean O'Gorman just step into RK's costume, e.g., were the colors really chosen originally to look good on RK, and not DO at all? Because Dean was described as "having to just get in there....""
In addition to the pics of RK in the costume looking the same as the version Dean wore, The Chronicles book that went into detail about the costumes said that of the Company AUJ costumes, Fili's was the most work to do, since the leatherwork required a certain technique to achieve that look... and they lamented the fact that RK left, and they had to remake it for Dean.
Though interestingly enough, even though the hair/beard/costume was not at all designed for Dean, I think he looks better in it than RK.
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Jun 3 2016, 11:37am
Post #8 of 14
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I never get tired of looking at the glorious costumes in The Hobbit and this inspired me to drag out my Chronicles books again for the first time in awhile. As far as the color theme goes, I think the author is just putting too much symbolism into everything and ignoring the demands of movie making. The overriding theme of making each dwarf distinct and easily recognizable to the audience is something that was stressed over and over by the movie makers and three lead dwarves all in blue would just be too much blue. The same goes for Thrain's red costume - the Cloaks and Daggers Chronicles says, "Thrain took on a red motif once it was decided that Thror was going to be defined by gold. The colour choices were strategic, with Thror in gold, Thrain in red and young Prince Thorin in blue" and a few pages later, "The fact that Thrain's armour and weaponry was red was a wonderful point of distinction..." So, just IMO, all the things the author of the article is complaining about really boils to down to, "I want symbolism and the movie gave me easily distinguishable visual cues instead".
But how nice to have an excuse to browse through my Chronicles books!
__________________
Gold is the strife of kinsmen,
and fire of the flood-tide,
and the path of the serpent.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jun 3 2016, 3:22pm
Post #10 of 14
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I never tire of the costumes either...
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If I were making a film, after seeing the Hobbit costumes, I would hire Ann Maskrey....
HC: What a lot of attention to detail.
AM: You have to. Because the thing is, even if that costume that you spent hours on is only seen on camera for a few seconds, and it flits by, and the lighting’s dark, you know that on a film the scale of “The Hobbit,” at some point there’s going to be a big still photo of it, and at some point it’ll be in some exhibition, and you want to be able to go, “Look at that embroidery. Isn’t it lovely?” Sometimes you don’t see the detail in the movies, but because it’s 3-D and 48 frames per second, you do feel like you’re falling into the picture. You’re going to see a lot of it. So you couldn’t just slap it together.
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/...orite-look-radagast/
I wish I could tell the costumers and set designers that each and every costume and set detail that we can see is noticed and marveled over by a fair number of people, as far as I can tell from 'net comments. Especially from folks like me who pause a scene and just take it all in....
Like I'd still like to hold Thorin's brigandine armor or this coat on Fili, and see how they attached the metal plates, and just feel the leather in my hands. And too, whatever they came up with had to hold up to sweat, weathering, and a lot of abuse...
Plus the costumes IMO for the "family groups" go together. The Durins IMO have that consistency, costume-wise, as tho they came from the same region and culture (which I suppose is Ered Luin/Blue Mountains at this point...)
Re the original essay - no, I don't agree about Fili. I think editing decisions were made ...and so I will continue to hope for 1)re-edited Hobbit (e.g. longer) or at least the release of more un-used footage or stills and 2) that perhaps the rumored photos taken on set by Dean O'Gorman - and maybe others - will someday be able to be released.
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Jun 3 2016, 10:58pm
Post #11 of 14
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It's not the color of the costume that bothered me
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but I won't rehash all my gripes about Fili's treatment.
However, I just want to point out the beauty of this armor:
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
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LSF
Gondor
Jun 6 2016, 1:57am
Post #13 of 14
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The idea that characters who share a colour theme doesn't mean that all the characters in that group have to wear the same amount or wear it in the same way. Some can be blatant, some can be subtle.
I've been playing Assassin's Creed Syndicate this past week, and they have a purple colour theme for the main enemy leaders. The purple element in the costumes ranges from a blatant all-purple dress to a subtle jacket edge trimming. The subtle element doesn't make that character any less important than the blatant one.
Besides, I think it would look weird if Thorin, Fili, and Kili all wore a blatant blue jacket or the same amount of the colour, like they had been trying to colour-coordinate match
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LOL
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