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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jun 1 2016, 10:19pm
Post #26 of 34
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A relationship between an Elf and a non-Elf can never be really equal...
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...because of the Elves' immortality. Dwarves live a good deal longer than most Men, but still, there has to be an aspect of the relationship that is like a human's relationship with a pet animal: however close their mutual love may be, there's always the fact that it is at best temporary. Tolkien explores this more in the Sil and especially in Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth (The Debate of Finrod and Andreth) in Morgoth's Ring.
The ability of the races in ME to fully communicate (at least in Common Tongue) means their relationship can be a matter of full mutual intellectual and emotional respect and understanding, though, more than we can possibly achieve with a pet. These two seem to be celebrating their different cultures, talents, and outlooks very productively, and I think that is the great message Tolkien is trying to share in this bond.
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Al Carondas
Lorien
Jun 2 2016, 2:14am
Post #27 of 34
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Thinking more about the lineage of Imrahil
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If Legolas can tell immediately that elven-blood flows in Imrahil's veins, why did he not have a similar reaction to Boromir? Boromir and Faramir are sons of Imrahil's sister and so they would have inherited the same elven-blood.
"Good Morning!"
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Al Carondas
Lorien
Jun 2 2016, 2:23am
Post #28 of 34
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I do think that Aragorn must have used the palantir in order to discover that the attack on Minas Tirith had begun. But, somehow, I doubt that he snuck a peek back at Arwen. It is possible, of course, but wouldn't it be an unwelcome distraction for him? If I had been in that position I would have resisted the temptation and tried to keep my focus on the task at hand, lest I lose both the battle and Arwen because I let my attention be divided.
"Good Morning!"
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squire
Half-elven
Jun 2 2016, 2:30am
Post #29 of 34
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I suspect that male and female 'genetic' inheritance is unequal in Middle-earth.
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There's an awful lot of emphasis on who ones male ancestors are, especially with regard to being Dunedain or noble. Perhaps that's true about having Elvish ancestry (among mortals) as well.
It's an odd suggestion, I know, because most of the great Elf-Mortal matches are of mortal men wedding elvish women, and then begetting children with 'Elvish' inheritance and/or traits. Yet after those matches, the descent of the Elvish-style nobility seems to be counted solely through the male lines - as with Aragorn whose relationship to Elrond would be impossibly diluted if all the generations of women ancestors were counted as equal to his one distant male ancestor, Isildur.
So I agree that having Boromir be Imrahil's nephew, and yet not be of "Elvish kin" in any Elvish eyes from Rivendell to Lothlorien, is a bit odd - unless we assume that Imrahil's sister was, as a female, considerably less Elvish in her qualities than her brother was.
squire online:
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enanito
Rohan
Jun 2 2016, 2:47am
Post #30 of 34
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Did Boromir 'cloak' his elvish ancestry?
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I don't know that I even believe this line of thinking, but could it in part be the way that Imrahil "honored" his elvish heritage, while Boromir cleaved more towards his human lineage? I get the impression from the little text we have about Imrahil, that he respected the fact that he was descended from elvish blood. Boromir, on the other hand, seems to have leaned more towards his heritage as a Steward of Gondor. A noble and admirable man for sure, but with a different aspect to his nobility than Imrahil.
So possibly Boromir "cloaked" in a way his elvish nature by his character and attitudes, and eventually over the years any innate elvishness became submerged by more dominant traits. While it more naturally showed through Imrahil's persona.
Again, more a rambling thought than anything coherent 
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InTheChair
Rohan
Jun 2 2016, 6:10pm
Post #31 of 34
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You'd need nature to deal you a good hand.
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The whole blood-mix questions isn't really straight forward. There appears to be no guarantee that you get the 50/50 mix just because you had one parent of each kind. At least if we believe in Gandalf, who remarks that the blood of numenor was almost pure in Denethor, as it was in Faramir and yet not in Boromir. Same I guess ought to be true for descendants of Man/Elf unions. What decides if you become a man or a woman? What decides if you get a 50% elven blood strain or only a 5? Not to make it a point of mathematics, but going by what little evidence is available, nature can play its own game at times.
Poor Boromir seems to have gotten a pretty bad hand. One parent with almost pure numenoread blood, and one, probably with a fair bit of elven strain, and yet was left with neither.
(This post was edited by InTheChair on Jun 2 2016, 6:13pm)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jun 3 2016, 1:08pm
Post #32 of 34
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Thanks for leading this chapter, enanito!
1. First impressions of G&R? I had read The Hobbit first, so I knew there was bad blood between Elves & Dwarves, which Gloin brought up again at the Council of Elrond. So having G&R squabble along the way didn't surprise me, and what did surprise me was their sudden bonding in Lorien. They didn't just become friends, they became best friends forever. I took that as 2 things: 1) the healing nature of Lorien over the grief of losing Gandalf, and 2) Tolkien's repeated theme that people who are different need to come together for a common cause. I didn't see it coming, and I think that's because they were not too overtly hostile to each other. That's more of a Hollywood thing, where 2 people who start out screaming at each other at movie's start can become best buddies by the end. With these two, it was more of a cold silence between them, even showing some restraint such as when they had previously disagreed over who started the bad blood between their races (and Gandalf cut them off).
2 and 3. I think it's definitely equal in investment and effort, but somehow, Gimil seems to derive more enjoyment from it. I think because he's more overtly emotional anyway.
4. I think it could happen again, but wouldn't count on it. As a rule, races are estranged in ME, and they stay that way. Places like Bree and Dale are exceptions to the rule.
5. Both. Especially the Grand Statement. One could probably write a thesis about how Tolkien constructed LOTR to show that different cultures/races just need to get along and quit fighting and quit clinging to old grudges.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jun 3 2016, 1:13pm
Post #33 of 34
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Boromir was too crude to be mistaken for an Elf
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Somehow the Elf genes skipped over his DNA assembly line. Sam tells Faramir that he has a special aura about him. Oddly, Sam says that it reminds him of Wizards more than Elves, maybe because Sam reveres Elves so much more. But Faramir tells him that he must sense from afar the aura of Numenor. I guess three things made Numenor great: their incredible bloodline (descent from Elves and a Maia), their close friendship with the Elves and the favor of the Valar, and then all the things they accomplished on their own.
Boromir seems to me more rustic like Eomer and less like a sophisticated, ethereal type. Imrahil and his men had that special ability to calm other men in Minas Tirith who were psychologically beaten down by the presence of the Nazgul overhead.
(This post was edited by CuriousG on Jun 3 2016, 1:13pm)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jun 3 2016, 1:18pm
Post #34 of 34
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Imagine Aragorn walking down the street wtih his nose stuck in his iPalantir
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Unlike modern devices, I don't think Tolkien's artifacts are meant to be used steadily. It just seems one of the rules. I think it makes those things seem more lofty and magical the less they are used. Otherwise, they'd be mundane, like a toaster or a coffee pot. "Frodo, we need a little light. Where's that Phial? Oh, and check Sting again to see if Orcs are about willya? And Aragorn, search the road ahead for a nice vegetarian inn that has hummus, okay?" Those things would all be handy, but the more they're used, the less wow factor they have.
And I agree that peeking on Arwen would distract him. And besides, if she was taking a shower, I mean, aren't there laws against palantir-stalking?
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