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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
May 18 2016, 9:05pm
Post #26 of 48
(976 views)
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Well, all this sounds fantastic
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but THE HAIR finally signing on the dotted line clinched it for me. But oh dear oh dear I hope the fire prevention standards are up to par. 
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
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Avandel
Half-elven
May 18 2016, 10:33pm
Post #27 of 48
(957 views)
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The movie sites are sayin' that WB is ecstatic over the "buzz" and the controversy. And rumor had it The Hair caved after getting a personal call from Richard Armitage - it's that melted chocolate voice, you know. 
 The down side is that *gasp* it's hitting the news wires that Richard Taylor, known for his graciousness and affable nature, actually lost his temper with WETA staff who promptly got into a very public fight over who would be assigned care of The Hair. Ironically the fight seems to have involved much hair pulling as well as smacking each other with makeup brushes.
Richard Taylor said it was stressful enough arranging computer time with NASA and the Swiss and Microsoft, because Smaug set the bar pretty high, and it was enough of a problem realistically generating a dragon the size of a small country.
Meanwhile, in a phone interview, Dean O'Gorman laughed over controversy of the re-appearance of the Durins, in the face of canon and the arc of previous films. "Well, we ARE the Heirs of Durin, and dwarves are tough little guys - besides, magic - like those eagles - solves a lot of inconvenient problems on screen. Everyone's doing it, too. I mean, you just aren't anyone these days if you haven't paid a quick trip to Beyond the Veil...it's really not the problem it used to be."
'And the blue wizards and the cat-queen are a stroke of genius - they've never been seen before, so who knows what they can do?"
"But Aidan and I are going to have to get some tips from Lee Pace and Richard Armitage, because thanks to Thorin's hair setting a precedent, there's going to be a serious emphasis on everyone's hair - you thought it was bad for the Hobbit films! Fili had great hair, I thought, but word has come down from WB - all main cast will have EPIC, blinding hair. My brief says that Fili's hair is long, and quote 'shimmers like sunset over a rippling lake' - I guess something happens while the Durins are visiting another plane, because when they come back they are, er, practically godlike or something - which causes Kili and Tauriel some problems.
"I can't even imagine what Thorin's hair will be like - something about 'long streams of soft ebony lava kissed with melted diamonds', but I'm glad to hear The Hair is on board. Even if it's a little strange about it having its own dressing room and trailer."
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
May 19 2016, 10:39am
Post #28 of 48
(930 views)
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I'm surprised no one caught that reference to Weird Al.
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I always follow my job through.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 19 2016, 12:41pm
Post #29 of 48
(914 views)
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I'm surprised no one caught that reference to Weird Al.
Oh, I caught it right away. I just let it go.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 19 2016, 12:42pm)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
May 19 2016, 8:52pm
Post #30 of 48
(881 views)
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I always follow my job through.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
May 19 2016, 8:56pm
Post #31 of 48
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Have you seen my casting suggestion for an Aragorn film, Balbo?
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I always follow my job through.
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Loresilme
Valinor
May 20 2016, 5:14pm
Post #32 of 48
(858 views)
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If only I were a producer with deep pockets! *sigh* I'd grab this immediately!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 20 2016, 8:02pm
Post #33 of 48
(844 views)
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Some of our fellows here are just too consumed with anger, disappointment and cynicism to see some of the possibilities that still exist. Even I think that there are only a small, handful of possible movies that could be spun-off directly from TH and/or LotR that have real, commercial potential.
Many of us here don't have realistic expectations about what a major studio would produce or what will appeal to a mass audience. I'm sure that our friend balbo biggins would firmly place me in this category!
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 20 2016, 8:13pm)
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Omnigeek
Lorien
May 20 2016, 10:58pm
Post #34 of 48
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I think the Fall of Nargothrond, the Tale of Turin Turambar, and Luthien and Beren would all be excellent single subject movies. They could do a condensed version of the Tale of the Silmarils from their creation to the treachery of Morgoth through the Kinslaying and up to the establishing of Doriath but even condensed it would probably take a trilogy.
The problem I would see is doing the tales justice. CGI has made it possible to do them visual justice but these would need directors who are also fans and faithful to the original story. I would hate to see them transformed by a director or writing team that thinks they know better than the original author and Hollyweird is full of "artists" who think they can do better. It's also become a land of the endless remakes because they can't be troubled to deal with thousands upon thousands of other original stories available. The remakes may pale beyond comparison but they're "new". I'd rather not see any more M-e movies than get a JJ Abrams-style treatment.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
May 20 2016, 11:28pm
Post #35 of 48
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I've had ideas for film versions of different parts of The Silmarillion and people who could do the story justice, such as directors, screenwriters, and music composers. They're under the Casting for The Silmarillion 3 thread. I've even put in a possible budget for each film: $80 million.
I always follow my job through.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on May 20 2016, 11:30pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 20 2016, 11:33pm
Post #36 of 48
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I think the Fall of Nargothrond, the Tale of Turin Turambar, and Luthien and Beren would all be excellent single subject movies. They could do a condensed version of the Tale of the Silmarils from their creation to the treachery of Morgoth through the Kinslaying and up to the establishing of Doriath but even condensed it would probably take a trilogy.
My post was limited to stories that could be told as taken solely from The Hobbit and/or The Lord of the Rings. I don't think that any of those tales could be realistically attempted without the film rights to The Silmarillion. It is moot to discuss potential films that depend on the rights still held by the Tolkien Estate.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
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Omnigeek
Lorien
May 21 2016, 12:33am
Post #37 of 48
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Okay, I agree. The appendix for ROTK is sparse material for more movies. A lawyer could probably argue that there's enough in the appendices to open the door to the other material but I don't think I'd want to watch the resulting product. Any director or producer who resorted to legalisms like that would probably not bother paying attention to the material.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 21 2016, 12:51am
Post #38 of 48
(799 views)
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Despite what I posted before, this is a 'what if...' thread. So, disregarding the limits of my previous post, dream on! I would even encourage dream-casting using actors at any age and any time in film history.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 21 2016, 12:52am)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
May 21 2016, 3:16pm
Post #39 of 48
(766 views)
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Perhaps a film on the events in the North, particularly the Battle of Dale and the Siege of Erebor?
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I always follow my job through.
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
May 21 2016, 6:55pm
Post #40 of 48
(753 views)
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Definitely heartbreakingly beautiful and full of faerie. 
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
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Avandel
Half-elven
May 21 2016, 10:22pm
Post #41 of 48
(737 views)
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Some of our fellows here are just too consumed with anger, disappointment and cynicism to see some of the possibilities that still exist. Even I think that there are only a small, handful of possible movies that could be spun-off directly from TH and/or LotR that have real, commercial potential.
Many of us here don't have realistic expectations about what a major studio would produce or what will appeal to a mass audience. I'm sure that our friend balbo biggins would firmly place me in this category!
And am sure studios would pay dearly to have the crystal ball to know what will or won't not only appeal to a mass audience, but actually be a success.
In theory IMO, ME has a built-in audience and any "reasonable" film would at least grab the all-important weekend box office...but then, it'd have to be appealing enough to not just sink like a stone after the release . And IMO whether folks appreciate him or not, I know that PJ's hands on Middle Earth engender good will - because I went into AUJ pretty unspoiled, but I was CONFIDENT and happy in my seat, that first time, because it WAS Peter Jackson and all his "lush" treatment. I "knew" I didn't have to worry, that ME was in good hands and I wasn't going to see "something weird".
I'd like to think a good film is a good film, e.g what could be done with that small handful of possible treatments legally available to whatever director who might want to take the project on. Aside from seeing Thorin/Thranduil after/before Erebor's fall (and having to make things up) there's Aragorn/Legolas/Tauriel (even if re-cast and making things up) but then again, "fan-fiction" or not, why not if it's a GOOD film?
It could be a chance to see environments that have never been depicted before, or characters only briefly mentioned. I'd love to see what Thorin called "poor lodgings in exile" if done well. It's not like Westerns in the U.S. which at the moment don't seem to set audiences on fire. There's a huge market for the sci-fi and fantasy genre, at the moment.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 22 2016, 2:07am
Post #42 of 48
(721 views)
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The Potential of New Middle-earth Films
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The readership of Tolkien's books is too small for any major film studio to take a gamble on, in-and-of itself, but we also have to add to that the audiences for the previous films, which is considerably more significant, even without the consideration of new viewers. If we do want to continue from the Peter Jackson films then I do see several possibilities:
- I still think that the story of Aragorn as a young man is the single best option. Kit Harington (Game of Thrones) is a distinct possibility for the lead; Thranduil, Legolas and possibly Tauriel could be incorporated.
- Looking at the War of the Ring, the Battle of Dale and Siege of Erebor could be told as a LotR side-story. The battles in Mirkwood and Lórien against the forces of Dol Guldur might be a separate movie or they all might be somehow combined. Perhaps Tauriel could be used to connect the stories.
- There is the story of Balin's attempt to recolonize Moria, but I don't think that it would draw a large enough audience to be viable.
- The Second-Age stories of the crafting of the Rings, the Downfall of Númenor and the War of the Last Alliance would be difficult using the Appendices alone. I don't know that any of them would yield a satisfying result.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 22 2016, 2:13am)
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Avandel
Half-elven
May 22 2016, 4:13pm
Post #43 of 48
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The "inevitable" shift of characterizations....
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- I still think that the story of Aragorn as a young man is the single best option. Kit Harington (Game of Thrones) is a distinct possibility for the lead; Thranduil, Legolas and possibly Tauriel could be incorporated.
I think this, actually is an option as well - re being clear, I like the book Aragorn, as I see him in my mind, and appreciated his long years before "coming into his own" - simply because I found PJ's interpretation frustrating (and would rather have more dwarves) doesn't mean I wouldn't watch a film based on this narrative. Also this version of Aragorn as presented on film is generally, as far as I can tell, very well thought of (and I love some parts of VM's Aragorn. That single look he gives Boromir's small boat as the river carries it away IMO says so much and is just perfection, for me).
But that's the thing, too. No actor and director is going to re-interpret a character the same way. Some characters are powerfully etched into the public's mind now.
IMO any film and interpretation would have to be perfectly cast and beautifully executed, otherwise - right now - I think a "new" Aragorn or other major character might be rejected (and along with that, the film) by a big audience segment (even if it's a younger version...I mean there's Legolas in the Hobbit acting all tough, and I didn't think that worked so well a times, I wanted the fey and more soft-spoken Legolas....)
Or not. Phhht - studios. Well, that's a mystery - pulling off a new ME film (a good one) would be difficult. But there's a built-in audience and interest, even if a lot of filler had to be provided. But studios are willing to pour millions into films with high-paid cast that to me should be pulled when the first raw footage is being shown (Gods of Egypt, for one.....) And I keep seeing trailers for a Warcraft film where I am already lifting my eyebrows at the CGI (hey! isn't that the guy from Vikings???) - I mean, a new ME film would just roll over that kind of thing.
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Jeffrodo
Bree
May 30 2016, 1:32pm
Post #44 of 48
(570 views)
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I think what's stumbling up people on this notion is the strict adherence to the books. What I'm proposing is really the creation of something new within the boundaries of what's "allowed" by LOTR, the Appendices and The Hobbit. These films could potentially be as great as the script allowed. Look at how Star Wars is now moving ahead without George Lucas. This would be like moving ahead without Tolkien...which I know is blasphemy for some. These films would take inspiration from the books but would certainly have to invent wholly new characters and plots. You're either for this idea or not, and that's fine.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 30 2016, 2:14pm
Post #45 of 48
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We are not sure what, if anything, is 'allowed' outside of the boundaries of the books. A spin-off that is firmly grounded in the texts of the books and the Appendices seems to be well-within the existing film rights. Anything more speculative might be in violation of those rights even if they don't directly infringe on the books still held by the Tolkien Estate. Still, we could play 'what if...' and pretend that such films could proceed. Is that what you wish?
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 30 2016, 2:15pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 30 2016, 8:51pm
Post #46 of 48
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Let's go back to your original proposal:
Middle Earth trilogy...each film is titled MIDDLE EARTH: (with a subtitle)
Peter Jackson is executive producer but not director. Maybe one director, maybe three different directors? These 3 movies bridge the 60 years between The Hobbit and LOTR. We could see the following characters reappear: Gandalf, Bilbo (older Martin Freeman), several of the dwarves, Legolas (again), Aragorn and Arwen, Elrond, Gollum.
What would be the actual story(ies) of your three films, their narrative lines? They can't each just be an anthology of unrelated events. Will each one stand alone or will they be intertwined?
Tales of Middle-earth: The Eagle of the Star. This would focus on the birth, upbringing and early exploits of Aragorn through his betrothal to the Lady Arwen in Lothlórien. It would follow him on his first journeys into the distant East and far South, and through his errantries (as Thorongil) for King Thengel of Rohan and Ecthelion II, the Steward of Gondor.
Tales of Middle-earth: Balin, Lord of Moria. The story of Balin's doomed attempt to recolonize Khazad-dûm.
Tales of Middle-earth: The Rise of the Shadow. Darkness returns to Mirkwood as three of the Nazgûl restore Dol Guldur. Agents of Mordor foment trouble in Dale and attempt to seduce the Dwarf-lords of Erebor with Rings of Power. Bilbo's young cousin Frodo is orphaned and eventually becomes the old Hobbit's ward. Gandalf, seeking answers to questions that have long troubled him, engages Aragorn to aid him in the hunt for Gollum. Perhaps Bilbo's adoption of Frodo should be the movie's end. Or maybe it should end with the planning of Bilbo's eleventy-first birthday party.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 30 2016, 8:57pm)
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wizzardly
Rohan
May 30 2016, 9:17pm
Post #47 of 48
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Thinking beyond the books leads ultimately to fan-fic cringe...
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and that sort of thing should be confined to the dark musty corners of the internet where it belongs.
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dormouse
Half-elven
May 30 2016, 10:05pm
Post #48 of 48
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Moving away for a moment from the sensitive subject of Tolkien it is possible for a good writer to pick up on another writer's story and produce something really worthwhile from it.
I'll give you an example. You've probably come across E. Nesbit's 'Five Children and It; either in book or film or TV adaptation. She wrote a couple of books about the same children in the early 1900s. A few years ago a writer named Kate Saunders used Nesbit's children - rather more grown up - and the Psammead in 'Five Children on the Western Front', which is a beautifull constructed and sensitive development from the original stories. Have won critical acclaim and a couple of awards.
'Thinking beyond the books' isn't necessarily doomed to fail. With the right writer - someone who is sensitive to the original - it can be done and very well done.
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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Doesn't it though?
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