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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I wish the movies hadn't turned the characters into morons for the sake of the plot...
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dormouse
Half-elven


May 14 2016, 5:24pm

Post #151 of 234 (550 views)
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Previous experience of the chef's handiwork.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...would encourage me to visit the restaurant again. But as I've already established, nothing would make me eat something that tasted bad - and in my experience food poisoning doesn't usually take effect until some time after eating.

Please remind me not to visit any restaurant you frequent - it sounds very messy! Wink

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


dormouse
Half-elven


May 14 2016, 5:28pm

Post #152 of 234 (547 views)
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Not sure how good he would have been as a film maker .... [In reply to] Can't Post

...though as a writer, I'd agree that his understanding of language, his imagination and his ability to weave a myth were second to none.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


wizzardly
Rohan


May 14 2016, 5:38pm

Post #153 of 234 (541 views)
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The full ravages of Chef PJ's handiwork [In reply to] Can't Post

didn't take full effect until a bit of time had passed to allow the digestion process to begin. It was afterall an enormous quantity to consume. However, about halfway through the 2nd course was when the true horror of it all boldly made itself known. It was a total mind and body assault like no other. After recovering enough to safely drive home, I vowed to never again return to Che PJ's.


LittleHobbit
Lorien

May 14 2016, 7:44pm

Post #154 of 234 (514 views)
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Trolls and orcs. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
More footage of trolls (who shouldn't even have been out in daylight)

Why should the trolls not be in daylight? They are not the same trolls as Tom, Bert and William, they are the same trolls who attacked Aragorn at the Black gate and can be out in the daylight.


Not to mention that there were trolls at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, and most of that battle in the movie takes place in daylight. But maybe he meant orcs? But there were literally THOUSANDS of orcs in daylight there as well, so the argument doesn't hold up either way. Tongue


ange1e4e5
Rohan

May 14 2016, 7:47pm

Post #155 of 234 (514 views)
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Perhaps modified trolls that can resist the sunlight. [In reply to] Can't Post

Saruman was able to make Uruk-hai more resistant to sunlight, why couldn't Sauron do the same with trolls? Unless we're being trolled by Peter Jackson.

I always follow my job through.


LittleHobbit
Lorien

May 14 2016, 7:51pm

Post #156 of 234 (511 views)
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Youtube. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Yes, Chef PJ's concoction has caused many to fall ill, as can be evidenced by multitudes of comments on websites such as youtube that offer samplings of his heinous dish. I think for me the fact that I made it through the second movie was partially due to complete and total disbelief....I was in shock. I didn't really enjoy the first course, however, a glimmer of hope still remained... the second course was where it really hit me. His LotR was far from perfect, but was overall satisfying, and I would find myself returning from time to time. So I was in complete shock that his Hobbit turned out so poorly, being that it is a much simpler dish. It seemed such an easy task for such an accomplished chef as Che PJ.


So what? I bet you can find hundreds of comments on youtube criticising any given apects of the LOTR trilogy, so this means nothing. People give idiotic opinions all the time.

Heck, even CHRISTOPHER TOLKIEN himself said, basically, that the LOTR trilogy was a piece of crap.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 14 2016, 7:53pm

Post #157 of 234 (510 views)
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Yes, [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Saruman was able to make Uruk-hai more resistant to sunlight, why couldn't Sauron do the same with trolls? Unless we're being trolled by Peter Jackson.


Sauron did exactly that, breeding the Olog-hai. Jackson just introduced several variations on the Black Trolls.

And, in Tolkien's canon, it was also Sauron who bred the Uruk-hai. Saruman recruited many of them for his own army, but what he developed were the Half-orcs--some of which could pass for Men.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"


ange1e4e5
Rohan

May 14 2016, 7:53pm

Post #158 of 234 (505 views)
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Like the pun? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


wizzardly
Rohan


May 14 2016, 8:03pm

Post #159 of 234 (501 views)
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??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you suggesting that Christopher Tolkien's opinion is idiotic?


ange1e4e5
Rohan

May 14 2016, 8:09pm

Post #160 of 234 (496 views)
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Perhaps not idiotic, [In reply to] Can't Post

But pretty arrogant.

I always follow my job through.


wizzardly
Rohan


May 14 2016, 8:19pm

Post #161 of 234 (490 views)
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I disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

Christopher probably has a fairly good idea of what a proper adaptation of his father's work should look like. The fact that he judged PJ's LotR so harshly should make any Tolkien fan take another look at the trilogy. PJ's LotR was 10 times better than his Hobbit, but I still agree with Christopher's criticisms of it.


ange1e4e5
Rohan

May 14 2016, 8:25pm

Post #162 of 234 (481 views)
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If he has such a good idea of how it should look, [In reply to] Can't Post

Why doesn't he try and make one himself? He's even refused the role of a creative consultant, where he would have final approval on any changes made by the filmmakers but still retain the rights. J.K. Rowling used that tactic with Harry Potter.

I guess Christopher Tolkien has a low opinion of the Harry Potter films as well.

On the other hand, do you like "Aruman" and unscary Balrogs?

I always follow my job through.

(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on May 14 2016, 8:27pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 14 2016, 8:35pm

Post #163 of 234 (471 views)
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Consultant [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Why doesn't he try and make one himself? He's even refused the role of a creative consultant, where he would have final approval on any changes made by the filmmakers but still retain the rights. J.K. Rowling used that tactic with Harry Potter.


Rowling was in a better position to dictate terms. Christopher Tolkien would have never been granted final say if only because the filmmakers had no obligation to give it to him.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"


wizzardly
Rohan


May 14 2016, 8:36pm

Post #164 of 234 (470 views)
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If that would have even given him "final approval" [In reply to] Can't Post

And, Bakshi's film handled some things better than PJ's movies. He at least had the good sense of not ruining the Flight to the Ford scene by shoehorning Arwen into it.


ange1e4e5
Rohan

May 14 2016, 8:44pm

Post #165 of 234 (464 views)
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Tell me how it was ruined. [In reply to] Can't Post

Evidently, there are some conflicting ideas about good female characters.

I always follow my job through.


wizzardly
Rohan


May 14 2016, 8:49pm

Post #166 of 234 (463 views)
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sure [In reply to] Can't Post

That is an important scene that illustrates Frodo's strength and courage. Having Arwen swoop in and save the day, ruins that moment. Frodo's bravery in defying the Nazgul, as well as his powerful line, "You shall have neither the Ring nor me!" was replaced with Arwen's cringeworthy line, "If you want him, come and claim him." blech


(This post was edited by wizzardly on May 14 2016, 8:56pm)


ange1e4e5
Rohan

May 14 2016, 8:58pm

Post #167 of 234 (456 views)
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I didn't think it was that cringeworthy. [In reply to] Can't Post

Both pretty much got the point across. Anyway, Frodo's surviving so long with his body slowly succumbing to the Morgol blade already showed his strength, so it probably was redundant. Anyways, Arwen had to have some introduction. It would be a bit awkward to first meet Arwen in Rivendell and then learn that she's Aragorn's love. Seems a bit forced there.

I always follow my job through.

(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on May 14 2016, 9:03pm)


wizzardly
Rohan


May 14 2016, 9:08pm

Post #168 of 234 (448 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

That is a defining moment of Frodo's character tossed by the wayside. And why would it be awkward to introduce Arwen in Rivendell?


ange1e4e5
Rohan

May 14 2016, 9:14pm

Post #169 of 234 (436 views)
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They probably wanted at least one action sequence with Arwen, establishing her as a willful and strong female. [In reply to] Can't Post

And introduce Aragorn's attitude toward her, with their debate over who should bring Frodo ahead of the rest of the hobbits to Rivendell. Most of the filmmakers' ideas over expanding Arwen's role were tossed by the wayside, like Arwen showing up at Helm's Deep. Even Peter Jackson thought that was too much.

I guess there is a disagreement over what a strong female character is.

I always follow my job through.

(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on May 14 2016, 9:16pm)


wizzardly
Rohan


May 14 2016, 9:19pm

Post #170 of 234 (439 views)
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Expanding Awen's role was completely unnecessary [In reply to] Can't Post

The story already has a strong willful female character.


ange1e4e5
Rohan

May 14 2016, 9:21pm

Post #171 of 234 (434 views)
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To some people, [In reply to] Can't Post

It has to be the hero's love interest who is a strong female character. And Eowyn doesn't appear in The Fellowship of the Ring. Perhaps she should have shown up a film early.

I always follow my job through.


wizzardly
Rohan


May 14 2016, 9:23pm

Post #172 of 234 (431 views)
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yes [In reply to] Can't Post

And its changing the story to please those sorts of people that ruined the Hobbit movies.


ange1e4e5
Rohan

May 14 2016, 9:26pm

Post #173 of 234 (429 views)
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Tell me, [In reply to] Can't Post

What do you define as a strong female character? What traits are required?

I always follow my job through.


wizzardly
Rohan


May 14 2016, 9:30pm

Post #174 of 234 (423 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

Eowyn is a good example. But really what does it matter? The Hobbit doesn't have any female characters. Why is that a problem?


ange1e4e5
Rohan

May 14 2016, 9:32pm

Post #175 of 234 (421 views)
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Because [In reply to] Can't Post

The characters seem a little lopsided, don't they?

I always follow my job through.

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