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AndHeHandedHimTheTobaccoJar
Bree
Apr 28 2016, 9:43pm
Post #1 of 13
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How common Samwise really is
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Samwise Gamgee is obviously a common hobbit, and is a 'batman' of sorts to Frodo. While Frodo is from a family that is held in high esteem, and is the heir to a rich estate, Sam is a simple gardener's son. Yet it just struck me how common Sam really is in comparison to the whole of the Fellowship. Think about it. - Aragorn is obvious, as he is the heir of Isildur, and becomes the King of the Reunited Kingdoms. - Boromir is the son of Denethor, Steward of Gondor. Boromir is next in line to be what is pretty much the unofficial King of Gondor. - Legolas is the son of Thranduil, which most likely makes him the heir to Eryn Lasgalen and the son of royalty. - Gimli is the son of Glóin, a dwarf who is relatively close in relation to Dain. He is also held in high esteem because of his role in the Quest of Erebor. While he isn't a direct heir like Aragorn, Boromir, or Legolas, he's still nobility. - Meriadoc is the son of Saradoc, which makes him the next Master of Buckland. - Peregrin is the son of Paladin, which makes him the next Thain of the Shire. - Frodo, as already explained, isn't exactly the heir to a title of leadership, but he does own a rich estate, and is closely related to the leaders and influential hobbits of the Shire. - Gandalf doesn't really need to be counted, after all, he's a Maiar from Aman who has been there since the beginning of the universe. He's anything but common. It just sort of struck me in a new way when I thought about the positions that all the members of the Fellowship had. In Tolkien's stories it is nearly always the nobility and leaders who are the heroes and protagonists of every story. They are nearly always the bravest, most skilled fighters, etc. This makes Samwise's inclusion in the Fellowship odd, but in a very good way.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Apr 28 2016, 9:51pm
Post #2 of 13
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He does stick out like a sore thumb on the social scale.
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But that seems remedied by the end of the trilogy when he marries into the Cotton family and becomes Frodo's heir, turning into a nouveau riche aristocrat.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Apr 29 2016, 3:38pm
Post #4 of 13
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****************************************** “Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!" "Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye." "Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may." "Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!" "But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!” "Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!" "No way!" "Way!" "Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!" "Cool!!" -Zack Snyder's The Return of the King
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Apr 29 2016, 3:55pm
Post #5 of 13
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I agree, and I think it is telling. Aragorn is the symbol of lost greatness restored. Boromir is potential greatness lost. Legolas and Gimli overcome prejudice and forge friendship. Merry and Pippin are the underestimated heroes. Frodo is the suffering hero-- almost a martry. Gandalf is the wisdom of experience. But Sam is the ordinary hero who doesn't set out to do great deeds, but just does his best and uses common sense. He's a hero because he didn't try to be one, so we appreciate his sincerity even more. He's an encouragement for ordinary people like us to do our best.
Sing a song of long lament The days be past, the years are spent The flames of fire, on funeral pyre The warrior's soul it's wing'd way hath sent
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Apr 29 2016, 11:10pm
Post #6 of 13
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I'm not sure that the Baggins where Shire aristocracy
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At least, Bilbo wasn't. He was more of a Shire Middle-class at first. Ad Sam did become aristocracy at the end, and btw it is in the rules of th ruling class that sometimes rare individuals of the common people can prove themselves and join their ranks. But I am struggling to think of any significant good characters in Lotr that are not aristocracy. Even Gollum was the son of possibly the leader of his people. And Butterbur was considered an important person. So any ideas.....
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geordie
Tol Eressea
Apr 30 2016, 8:17am
Post #8 of 13
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here's a view of Sam, from a letter of Tolkiens published in a fanzine -
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JOAN.O.FALCONER [address- NY state] May 19, 1973 Kathryn Lindskoog’s letter of Lewisiana in the April Mythprint inspires me to transmit a bit of Tolkieniana that I’ve been treasuring for several years. Late in 1964 I wrote the Professor a fan letter in which I remarked among other things, that I had been surprised to learn from the Appendices that Sam was younger than Frodo; throughout the Trilogy Sam had seemed to me the elder. Since this was still a few months before the "Battle of the Paperbacks" which was to demand so much of his energy, Professor Tolkien was kind enough to reply to me in his own type-written hand! and here is what he had to say about Sam: "I would say that the impression of greater age in Sam as compared with Frodo that you feel is due to the representation in these two persons of two quite different characters, each with a quite different background and education. Sam in part of his more complex character retains the sententiousness, and indeed cocksureness, of the rustic of limited outlook and knowledge. He was the youngest son of a stupid and conceited old peasant. Together with his loyal master-servant attitude, and his personal love for Frodo, he retains a touch of the contempt of his kind [moderated with tolerant pity] for motives above their reach. From this in some degree comes his slightly paternal, not to say patronising attitude to his master; but of course it is mainly derived from the fact that after the encounter by Weathertop Frodo was a sufferer, a person injured and in pain, and also after Rivendell grievously burdened. Sam’s protective and almost elderly manner was largely forced upon him by circumstance..."
(This post was edited by Ataahua on May 2 2016, 1:04am)
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geordie
Tol Eressea
Apr 30 2016, 8:20am
Post #9 of 13
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sorry about the Red font - I copied this from another forum//
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Apr 30 2016, 3:33pm
Post #10 of 13
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That makes two letters where Tolkien describes Sam as "cocksure".
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He does the same thing in a Sep. 1963 letter to Eileen Elgar (no. 246 in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien).
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room! +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
May 2 2016, 1:04am
Post #11 of 13
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Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better." "Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak. Ataahua's stories
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
May 6 2016, 5:55pm
Post #12 of 13
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The Red Font of Westmarch should
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not have been tampered with!
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
May 6 2016, 6:04pm
Post #13 of 13
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of lost greatness restored. Boromir is potential greatness lost." Excellent! And yes, I think that is Sam's character in a nutshell: not anti-hero, but un-hero in his own estimation, which really never changes. And that's what makes him able to rise to those heights. Seeing oneself as a hero can create or at least reveal inner fragility. If you don't think of yourself as a doer of great things, it's sometimes easier to just slog along an get the job done.
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