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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Apr 24 2016, 6:30pm
Post #1 of 39
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I haven't seen that much discussion around here about Bard. But I did like him in the last movie. He was someone that showed genuine leadership skills, had concern for his people and I think tried to do the best for everyone, negotiating hounably with Thorin in a difficult situation for example. Also with the Elvenking when his own people where in quite a weak position. And dashing around a lot, encouraging everyone etc. And well played by Luke Evans.
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NoelGallagher
Rohan
Apr 24 2016, 7:18pm
Post #2 of 39
(1601 views)
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I did like the character throughout the whole movie and Luke Evans was a very positive surprise, great casting crew they got.
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Apr 24 2016, 7:34pm
Post #3 of 39
(1595 views)
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I think he was one of my favorite characters out of the Hobbit and LOTR's films. I believe the character was given the right personality as well: Morally-good, a protective man to his children and people as well.
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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Sarahbor
Lorien
Apr 24 2016, 9:15pm
Post #4 of 39
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Agree all around. And he killed a dragon! Can't forget that.
Hobbit/LOTR cartoons & humor: http://www.sarahbor.com/
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wizzardly
Rohan
Apr 24 2016, 10:56pm
Post #5 of 39
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He's like the Macgyver of Middle-earth. No bow, whatevs, I'll just shoot the arrow off this kids shoulder.
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Meneldor
Valinor
Apr 24 2016, 11:04pm
Post #6 of 39
(1556 views)
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Good character, and well-played.
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My only real problem with Bard is that Alfrid made him look like a fool. Not directly, but for the sake of the plot, Bard had to trust Alfrid with duties and responsibilities that he was clearly unsuited for. I can't believe that Bard would assign Alfrid to any of the tasks he was given in the film, especially entrusting him to see to the safety and welfare of his own family and friends. And that's one of the biggest objections I have to the omnipresence of Lickspittle.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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LSF
Gondor
Apr 24 2016, 11:16pm
Post #7 of 39
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Luke Evans said its not really that Bard is completely trusting Alfrid, but more of giving Alfrid opportunities to prove himself and work through his faults. So Bard isn't just being a leader to the overall group, but also trying to help an individual.
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wizzardly
Rohan
Apr 24 2016, 11:32pm
Post #8 of 39
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It does come off as a little ridiculous. Alfred is like the stereotypical "You Can't Trust This Guy" guy.
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Omnigeek
Lorien
Apr 25 2016, 2:46am
Post #9 of 39
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Character was miswritten but Luke Evans did a good job with it
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Bard wasn't anti-establishment as portrayed in the moive, heck, he was Captain of the Guard. Likewise, the Mayor wasn't evil or totalitarian in the book, he was politic in the way he handled Thorin and somewhat greedy (more than somewhat after the dragon sickness took hold but he paid for that eventually). These are pretty minor points, all things considered, the paper cuts of discontinuities between the book and the movies. Some expansion of the role was to be expected and they kept him brave, bold, and virtuous but I thought the whole Bard vs. Mayor subplot was an unnecessary distraction.
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Meneldor
Valinor
Apr 25 2016, 2:48am
Post #10 of 39
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I'm fine with helping people grow and giving them second chances,
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I've been given second third fourth etc chances many times and I know that's how flawed people outgrow their problems. But you also have to weigh the risks associated with giving responsibilities to those who have repeatedly been irresponsible, and I just can't imagine Bard putting his own family's safety in the hands of a lying cowardly weasel like Alfrid.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Apr 25 2016, 3:19am
Post #11 of 39
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There's an alternate "Acorn" scene in the appendices that got deleted - and honestly I'm glad, because I didn't think it was a good scene, kind of contradicting an earlier scene. But when I saw it I thought that was probably the best acting Luke Evans did in the movie. I'm not saying he's a bad actor, but there was just some good believable stuff in that scene. Maybe it's because Bard spent so much time jumping from rooftops & carts that he didn't really have much dialog to work with. But that deleted scene, yeah, it was good. I look forward to seeing Luke Evans in "The Girl on the Train" later this year, I think he's got alot of potential.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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dormouse
Half-elven
Apr 25 2016, 10:49am
Post #12 of 39
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I think Bard was extremely well-written and well-played - and his confrontation with Smaug is one of the highlights of all three films for me - a superb piece of film-storytelling, carried off to perfection.
Keeping the Welsh accent was a nice touch too!
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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Avandel
Half-elven
Apr 25 2016, 4:09pm
Post #13 of 39
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Re an earlier thread from months ago....as Dormouse said beautifully, it's a quiet performance; as time has gone on I appreciate Luke Evans more and more (not that I didn't in the first place).
But I love what Luke Evans was able to convey, most importantly for me the small things like dropping his eyes at Thorin's accusation that the dwarves were prisoners, really, but still standing his ground; Bard's regretful look back at Erebor when Thranduil turns away, almost as tho he wanted to ride back to Erebor and try again; his cynical look at the dwarves "simple merchants" LOL ; "you have no right to enter that mountain"; the way he tells Bard "you were supposed to leave..."
+
Luke Evans athleticism. Even the simple way he poles his barge through Laketown seems to me to be believeable (I don't expect actors to be Olympic athletes, but it drives me crazy when you have an actor or an actress doing kick-ass stuff and you KNOW, inherently, there's no way that particular person with that kind of frame could do a particular fight or action scene ).
Heck, I love his whole look, too. AND his accent.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Apr 25 2016, 7:09pm
Post #14 of 39
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Well I can partially agree with this, the only purpose it really served was to make Bard look better I guess. But from what I remember of the book I think the Master of Laketown was a greedy SOB that didn't care much about the people. Of course, the Bard in the book came off a little pushy as well. It's been pointed out more than a few times that Bard & Thranduil seemed to be reversed in the movie. As far as the political subplot, well that's probably speaking to the modern audience more than anything - perhaps a statement about politicians generally being greedy and caring more about keeping power than for the welfare of their subjects/citizens? It's something that a lot of us can relate to, but you're probably right, the movie would have been fine without it.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Apr 25 2016, 7:17pm
Post #15 of 39
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Yeah, Luke was on the cover of Muscles & Fitness back when he was filming "Dracula Untold" - the guy's got it going on! I think my favorite Hobbit poster (and one I TRULY wish I had) is the poster of a great big Smaug looming over the Bowman!
Yeah, I may break down & buy this someday....
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 25 2016, 8:19pm
Post #16 of 39
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Of course, the Bard in the book came off a little pushy as well. It's been pointed out more than a few times that Bard & Thranduil seemed to be reversed in the movie.
Yes, here is an exchange from the book that illustrates that difference:
"Fools!" laughed Bard, "to come thus beneath the Mountain's arm! They do not understand war above ground, whatever they may know of battle in the mines. There are many of our archers and spearmen now hidden in the rocks upon their right flank. Dwarf-mail may be good, but they will soon be hard put to it. Let us set on them now from both sides, before they are fully rested!"
But the Elvenking said, "Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold. The dwarves cannot pass us, unless we will, or do anything that we cannot mark. Let us hope still for something that will bring reconciliation. Our advantage of numbers will be enough, if in the end it must come to unhappy blows."
Reversed roles, indeed.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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Omnigeek
Lorien
Apr 25 2016, 8:46pm
Post #17 of 39
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The Master was greedy in the book but not as bad as depicted in the movie until he got the dragon-sickness from the treasure Bard gave him. Definitely wasn't the totalitarian that Stephen Fry portrayed.
I also don't htink Bard came off as pushy in the book. He was Captain of the Guard so he had the stern approach one would expect. Thranduil in the book wasn't ANYTHING like Bard in the movie so I don't know where the idea of a role-reversal comes from. Thranduil in the book is simply motivated by protecting his kingdom and people. He is suspicious of the dwarves who invaded their feast and that suspicion was heightened by Thorin's refusal to explain why they were even in the forest.
I liked Luke Evans' portrayal, just didn't care for how they wrote the character but by then I was pretty annoyed with changes that I felt were unnecessary. I don't mind necessary changes like dropping Tom Bombadil or merging Arwen with Glorfindel in FOTR or even changing the captain of Thranduil's guard to a female Elf in order to show some diversity. I DO mind introduction of a completely unnecessary subplot and changes to characters to make some kind of contemporary political point but as I said, this was a pretty minor point to me -- actually didn't care much about it as I was already really annoyed by the Azog subplot and Kili-Tauriel-Legolas triangle.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Apr 25 2016, 9:07pm
Post #18 of 39
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Love the Bard/Samug poster - one of my favorites! Tho I suppose my VERY favorites are the AUJ series of art - and the *smouldery* Durin DOS poster EXCEPT it drives me crazy that the BOFA clothes show up in a DOS poster *sigh*. I think the movie banner art was great, too.
I was so SURE we were going to see this scene LOL. Smaug having destroyed the windlance, and there would be Bard, defiantly, heroically, standing on that bridge alone, bow in hand, making the shot of a lifetime - a *classic* movie scene. And I was so sure we'd see Thorin on the walls of Erebor, rallying everyone...
Aaaagh - was this a real, unused image/footage or just some awesome art????? 
LOL I was SURE of a lot of things about these films, but I was wrong!
ANYWAY agree it's an EPIC poster, great color and details and so evocative, but it's hard to complain when the Bard/Bain scene IMO is SO good....
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 25 2016, 9:16pm
Post #19 of 39
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Maybe not so much role-reversal between Bard and Thranduil as much as reversal of attitudes. The Elvenking of the book is much less willing to go to war over treasure than is Bard. Bard is understandably offended that Thorin has so cavalierly dismissed his claims and so has little sympathy for the Dwarves.
I'm not so sure that Bard was THE Captain of the Guard so much as one captain of one militia unit of archers.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 25 2016, 9:18pm)
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Avandel
Half-elven
Apr 25 2016, 9:36pm
Post #20 of 39
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I wasn't wild about Bard in the book either
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Re:
I also don't htink Bard came off as pushy in the book. He was Captain of the Guard so he had the stern approach one would expect. Thranduil in the book wasn't ANYTHING like Bard in the movie so I don't know where the idea of a role-reversal comes from. Thranduil in the book is simply motivated by protecting his kingdom and people. He is suspicious of the dwarves who invaded their feast and that suspicion was heightened by Thorin's refusal to explain why they were even in the forest.
Bard in the book struck me as aggressive; I didn't like him much or his attitude . And I can see where folks would think of Bard and Thranduil's roles as reversing; in the book Thranduils' IMO more complex book character seemed more single-minded in the films, vs. "Long will I tarry, ere I being this war for gold..."
E.g in the book the impression I had of the Elven King was a rich and deep character, who well knew the price of war. I love the film's Thranduil but I think some character elements were not shown, not until the end when Thranduil engages the orcs. Up to then in the films, Thranduil seems perfectly happy to overrun Erebor to get his gems back - and I hafta think, even if all the dwarves in Erebor were killed and Dain never showed up, they would have taken a few elves with them before that. It was a small number of dwarves but they had weapons and some were on their home ground.
Nor was Thranduil concerned about stirring a dragon up, possibly, when he made his offer to Thorin.
Whereas the film Bard takes in the sick Kili and the dwarves and seems desperate to get Thorin to bend - e.g. he is not wholly unsympathetic to the dwarves. And Bard is desperately afraid of Smaug waking up. But he doesn't even kick out the dwarves when it's obvious Smaug will be coming, or lash out at them. In the film, it's Thranduil who seems dismissive of the dwarves "what does it matter...they're mortal..."
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wizzardly
Rohan
Apr 25 2016, 11:35pm
Post #21 of 39
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With all the horrendous changes up until that point, it wouldn't have made any difference if Bard was portrayed by Rob Schneider.
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Noria
Gondor
Apr 26 2016, 12:16pm
Post #22 of 39
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Bard certainly gets overshadowed.
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Bard became one of my favourite characters when I first saw DOS, maybe more so than the more exotic and pretty Thorin and Thranduil. Despite his somewhat criminal activities, he comes across as rather more principled than either of those kings. Bard is certainly good looking and athletic, and has the hair thing going on, but he’s just a human man, one who is also already a leader, a king-in-waiting if you will. That at least fits right in with Tolkien who believed in that sort of thing.
I love the combination of the slightly crooked but not truly criminal smuggler with the kingly “protector of the common folk”, the family man who does what he does, from smuggling to fighting, for his children and his people. He is certainly more interesting than the almost deus ex machina Bard of the book who is neither very sympathetic nor engaging to me at least, except for his courage.
Of course the eye candy aspect of the character is appreciated but I really like the performance, which IMO ranks up there with what the rest of the lead actors gave us.
I don’t disagree that the Master plot is somewhat over-the-top, mostly because the Master and Alfred themselves, especially the former, are over-the-top. But I like the story itself, which has the same outcome as that of the book with Bard also ending up as the leader of Laketown.
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LSF
Gondor
Apr 26 2016, 1:05pm
Post #23 of 39
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Bard is certainly my fave of the three kings...
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With his physical attractiveness and all the other traits you mentioned
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StingingFly
Lorien
Apr 27 2016, 4:22am
Post #24 of 39
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...but not great. He was basically Laketown's version of Robin Hood. A dashing, charismatic rebel who aided the downtrodden against a corrupt ruler. They worked a little too hard to make the character attractive, which is a departure from the book character.
Bard in the book is nearly defined by his being unattractive. He is grim and stoic. Substance over style. The guy you don't want around (because he is such a downer), but need around (because he knows how to get things done). For me there is a parallel between Thorin/Bilbo and the Master/Bard, at least in the book. The boastful, over-confident, and self-absorbed crumble in the face of danger, whereas the simple, humble and noble-hearted rise to heroic action. Thorin hides in the tunnels and the Master flees in the presence of the dragon, where Bilbo and Bard stand strong. I believe this is based on real life observations of Tolkien during the war, where simple folk from lower stations outperformed their betters in acts of courage and valor. My Bard would be Sam Elliot, though perhaps I am being influenced by the awesome mustache of Bard in the Rankin-Bass cartoon!
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Noria
Gondor
Apr 27 2016, 12:01pm
Post #25 of 39
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Yes, I had thought of the Robin Hood parallels.
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I agree that Movie Bard is rather too good to be true, unlike book Bard who is only too willing to go to war. But when he goes up against Thorin in Laketown, Bard loses some of his gloss because, though he is later proven right about what will happen, he is hindering our heroes from their quest.
However Bard is not a simple and humble (though he is noble-hearted) guy in either book or movie. As the last of the line of the kings of Dale, he is of true noble descent, whatever his economic class. Unlike humbler heroes like the Hobbits, he will not do his thing and then thankfully return to his original place in the world; rather he will achieve his destiny of kingship in true Tolkien fashion.
IMO Bard was great. I loved the casting of Luke Evans with his Welsh accent and try not to remember anything about the RB cartoon. Sam Eliott is terrific but to my mind he is far too old, American and cowboy to be Bard.
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