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Omnigeek
Lorien
Apr 10 2016, 12:43am
Post #26 of 98
(1765 views)
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I keep hearing that but there are plenty of bowmen with full beards. Having a full beard doesn't mean it has to be wild and shaggy and you CAN hold the bowstring without snagging.
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Apr 10 2016, 6:58am
Post #27 of 98
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Those weren't proper Dwarven beards, especially not in a clan known as the Longbeards. Facial growth, yes. Beards? Those were beards in about the same vein that a 1974 Mustang II was a sportscar. You never said proper dwarf beards, the quote said
"No Elf or Man has ever seen a beardless Dwarf" it did not say that elf or Man has ever seen a dwarf with out a proper beard, it just said beardless and Thorin, Ori, Fili, Bofur are not beardless. And how long is a proper dwarf beard? And just because there clan is could the long beards does that not mean you must have a long beard.
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Omnigeek
Lorien
Apr 10 2016, 1:37pm
Post #28 of 98
(1742 views)
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A few tufts of hair on the chin are not a beard. ^ Not very dwarven but I'll grant you it's technically a beard and a lot of the ladies like it but ... ^ Moustache and chin hairs, not a beard ^GREAT moustache but that's no beard, it's not even a goatee ^ I don't know what the heck you call that fringe but it's not a beard and not e decent moustache either
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Apr 10 2016, 2:00pm
Post #29 of 98
(1739 views)
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In my opinion Thorin, Fili and Ori do have beards, they have enough hair on them that I would call it a beard.
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Apr 10 2016, 2:04pm
Post #30 of 98
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To make them where beard nets at my workplace!
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Omnigeek
Lorien
Apr 10 2016, 3:20pm
Post #31 of 98
(1739 views)
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Going beyond the beards (or lack thereof)
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Balin, Gloin, and Dwalin have (IMO) strong dwarven facial features, particularly Balin's and Gloin's noses. Actually, most of them, other than Thorin, Fili, Kili, and Bofur had strong dwarven noses but I especially liked the ones on Balin, Gloin, Oin, and Dori. Dain was also standout for me on all these scores. In terms of behavior, Balin, Dwalin, and Gloin struck me as consistently Tolkien-dwarvish. I say Tolkien-dwarvish because a number of the rest struck me as Time Bandits-dwarvish. I did like Kili's speech to Thorin at Erebor about wanting to go out and fight with his kin. Dwarves are strongly bound to their kin so I was somewhat dismayed there wasn't more of a reaction to Thorin's holding them back inside Erebor (in the movie).
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Apr 10 2016, 3:25pm
Post #32 of 98
(1735 views)
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Beards in what sense of the word?
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I always follow my job through.
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wizzardly
Rohan
Apr 10 2016, 3:56pm
Post #33 of 98
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Their clan was The Longbeards. Not having a beard in their culture is considered a great embarrassment. Kili would have been a laughing stock. And for Thorin, the King of the Longbeards to not have a decent beard is ridiculous. Anyway, the real reason for all this is the fact that in the story of the Hobbit, unlike the LotR, there really isn't a main character they could have used to draw women into the theaters. That's it. If they had covered up all their faces with beards and dwarf-like prosthetics, most women, generally speaking mind you, will see it as a guy's movie. This is the main reason for the addition of the female elf and the love story as well. J.R.R. Tolkien's story has been perverted by societies modern day lust for greed and PC agendas.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Apr 10 2016, 4:12pm
Post #34 of 98
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I don't think I've ever seen that quote, where does it come from, and who is calling Thorin "father?" I disagree with you that Armitage isn't sporting a beard - sure looks like a beard to me - but even Richard mentioned feeling uncomfortable with the short beard, since Thorin is described as having a forked beard he tucks into his belt. But there's no universal definition of "proper beard," so unless there's a definite description in the book (like Thorin's, admittedly) I don't think you can truly say the other beards are "improper," since that's really a matter of opinion. And there's got to be more to looking "Dwarvish" than beard length, anyway!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Apr 10 2016, 4:16pm
Post #35 of 98
(1714 views)
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I don't think "PC agenda" has anything to do with it. Marketing, yes - they definitely wanted female butts in the seats because women have been know to spend a LOT of money at the movies. I LIKED the inclusion of a female elf (and why wouldn't there be female elves in Mirkwood), but I didn't care much for the "love story" either - would have liked it better if it had just been a friendship/respect sort of thing, like Legolas & Gimli. I don't remember Legolas being quite so "anti-Dwarf" in LoTR, so in a way this could help explain that, his softened attitude I mean. Just IMO here.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 10 2016, 4:21pm
Post #36 of 98
(1712 views)
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I don't think I've ever seen that quote, where does it come from, and who is calling Thorin "father?" That was one of the Elves of Rivendell having fun at Thorin's expense in the book. The company has reached Rivendell, leading their ponies to the river and a narrow bridge of stone:
"Don't dip your beard in the foam, father!" [the elves] cried to Thorin, who was almost on to his hands and knees. "It is long enough without watering it." "Things need not to have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." - Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 10 2016, 4:30pm)
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Apr 10 2016, 4:26pm
Post #37 of 98
(1706 views)
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Yeah, that's what I'm getting at
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I'll agree with anyone that Kili didn't look very "Dwarvish," but have no problems with the rest of them. As I mentioned, they were supposed to be shorter, stockier and with larger ears and noses than regular men. Granted, some of the hairstyles were weird, but that isn't necessarily "anti-Dwarvish." And then there's personality. Dwarves are described as fierce fighters, and loyal to their kin. Balin looked so distressed when Thorin told them to "stand down," a very un-Dwarvish thing to do. He looked so conflicted - torn between loyalty to his King, and loyalty to his kin. I thought Dwalin confronting Thorin out of earshot from the others was also very Dwarvish - loyal enough to Thorin to NOT call him out in front of everyone else, but still wanting desperately to help Dain. Didn't Gimli describe Dwarves as being "fierce fighters?" I think one of the biggest complaints about BOT5A is that (at least in the theatrical version) there wasn't enough focus on the Dwarves fighting.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Apr 10 2016, 4:29pm
Post #39 of 98
(1695 views)
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I promise you, Dean O'Gorman can grow quite a beard - I don't have it, but there's a photo out there where he's sporting a beard big enough to qualify for ZZ Top, LOL!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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wizzardly
Rohan
Apr 10 2016, 4:31pm
Post #40 of 98
(1693 views)
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Hollywood definitely has been working towards certain agendas. Have a look see at the new ghostbusters film and the director's motivations, and you will see what I mean. This is called social conditioning.
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Omnigeek
Lorien
Apr 10 2016, 5:51pm
Post #41 of 98
(1672 views)
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I don't have an issue with any of the actors. They were all fine actors and actresses and they did what signed up to do. Unlike many of the guys I grew up with, I don't equate facial growth with manhood (then again, I couldn't grow a decent beard to save my life even if I had months to do it). However, the looks of many of Thorin and Company were artistic decisions that I maintain violated the text and spirit of the books. That's fine, directors and producers and even authors often have to make decisions like that when converting a story to a new media. On the other hand, I just laugh when I see fans who are so defensive of PJ and WETA that they deny the black-and-white text and convince themselves those stubby growths are consistent with the story.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Apr 10 2016, 5:57pm
Post #43 of 98
(1673 views)
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The guy on the far right looks like Gloin.
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I always follow my job through.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 10 2016, 6:27pm
Post #44 of 98
(1668 views)
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Your image is far too big? Can you reduce it or replace it with a link?
"Things need not to have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." - Dream of the Endless
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Omnigeek
Lorien
Apr 10 2016, 6:43pm
Post #45 of 98
(1657 views)
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but here's the link: https://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/dwarf-lords.jpg and this should be a resized version:
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Apr 10 2016, 6:54pm
Post #46 of 98
(1650 views)
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I always follow my job through.
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wizzardly
Rohan
Apr 10 2016, 6:56pm
Post #47 of 98
(1654 views)
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Which one is meant to be the "hot one" the girls are supposed to be swooning over?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 10 2016, 7:12pm
Post #48 of 98
(1640 views)
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There were also Gimli and his companions (including his father) at the Council of Elrond: One of them actually does have a fairly short beard!
"Things need not to have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." - Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 10 2016, 7:13pm)
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Apr 10 2016, 7:15pm
Post #49 of 98
(1627 views)
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Pic has been edited to a more viewable size. //
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I desired dragons with a profound desire"
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Apr 10 2016, 7:15pm
Post #50 of 98
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Because the dwarves aren't the main characters yet.
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The most prominent dwarf is Gimli and he is, compared with Frodo, Sam, Gandalf, and Aragorn, a supporting character. Thorin, for example, is a central character of The Hobbit.
I always follow my job through.
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