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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Who is the most "Dwarvish" Dwarf?
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Omnigeek
Lorien


Apr 10 2016, 12:43am

Post #26 of 98 (1765 views)
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No it's not [In reply to] Can't Post

I keep hearing that but there are plenty of bowmen with full beards. Having a full beard doesn't mean it has to be wild and shaggy and you CAN hold the bowstring without snagging.


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Apr 10 2016, 6:58am

Post #27 of 98 (1757 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Those weren't proper Dwarven beards, especially not in a clan known as the Longbeards. Facial growth, yes. Beards? Those were beards in about the same vein that a 1974 Mustang II was a sportscar.

You never said proper dwarf beards, the quote said

Quote
"No Elf or Man has ever seen a beardless Dwarf"

it did not say that elf or Man has ever seen a dwarf with out a proper beard, it just said beardless and Thorin, Ori, Fili, Bofur are not beardless. And how long is a proper dwarf beard? And just because there clan is could the long beards does that not mean you must have a long beard.


Omnigeek
Lorien


Apr 10 2016, 1:37pm

Post #28 of 98 (1742 views)
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No, they don't [In reply to] Can't Post

A few tufts of hair on the chin are not a beard.


^ Not very dwarven but I'll grant you it's technically a beard and a lot of the ladies like it but ...


^ Moustache and chin hairs, not a beard


^GREAT moustache but that's no beard, it's not even a goatee


^ I don't know what the heck you call that fringe but it's not a beard and not e decent moustache either


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Apr 10 2016, 2:00pm

Post #29 of 98 (1739 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

In my opinion Thorin, Fili and Ori do have beards, they have enough hair on them that I would call it a beard.


Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea

Apr 10 2016, 2:04pm

Post #30 of 98 (1739 views)
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Enough of beards [In reply to] Can't Post

To make them where beard nets at my workplace!


Omnigeek
Lorien


Apr 10 2016, 3:20pm

Post #31 of 98 (1739 views)
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Going beyond the beards (or lack thereof) [In reply to] Can't Post

Balin, Gloin, and Dwalin have (IMO) strong dwarven facial features, particularly Balin's and Gloin's noses. Actually, most of them, other than Thorin, Fili, Kili, and Bofur had strong dwarven noses but I especially liked the ones on Balin, Gloin, Oin, and Dori. Dain was also standout for me on all these scores.

In terms of behavior, Balin, Dwalin, and Gloin struck me as consistently Tolkien-dwarvish. I say Tolkien-dwarvish because a number of the rest struck me as Time Bandits-dwarvish. I did like Kili's speech to Thorin at Erebor about wanting to go out and fight with his kin. Dwarves are strongly bound to their kin so I was somewhat dismayed there wasn't more of a reaction to Thorin's holding them back inside Erebor (in the movie).


ange1e4e5
Gondor

Apr 10 2016, 3:25pm

Post #32 of 98 (1735 views)
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Beards in what sense of the word? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


wizzardly
Rohan


Apr 10 2016, 3:56pm

Post #33 of 98 (1726 views)
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the longbeards [In reply to] Can't Post

Their clan was The Longbeards. Not having a beard in their culture is considered a great embarrassment. Kili would have been a laughing stock. And for Thorin, the King of the Longbeards to not have a decent beard is ridiculous.

Anyway, the real reason for all this is the fact that in the story of the Hobbit, unlike the LotR, there really isn't a main character they could have used to draw women into the theaters. That's it. If they had covered up all their faces with beards and dwarf-like prosthetics, most women, generally speaking mind you, will see it as a guy's movie. This is the main reason for the addition of the female elf and the love story as well. J.R.R. Tolkien's story has been perverted by societies modern day lust for greed and PC agendas.


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Apr 10 2016, 4:12pm

Post #34 of 98 (1719 views)
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Father? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think I've ever seen that quote, where does it come from, and who is calling Thorin "father?" I disagree with you that Armitage isn't sporting a beard - sure looks like a beard to me - but even Richard mentioned feeling uncomfortable with the short beard, since Thorin is described as having a forked beard he tucks into his belt. But there's no universal definition of "proper beard," so unless there's a definite description in the book (like Thorin's, admittedly) I don't think you can truly say the other beards are "improper," since that's really a matter of opinion. And there's got to be more to looking "Dwarvish" than beard length, anyway!

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Apr 10 2016, 4:16pm

Post #35 of 98 (1714 views)
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Now, now [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think "PC agenda" has anything to do with it. Marketing, yes - they definitely wanted female butts in the seats because women have been know to spend a LOT of money at the movies. I LIKED the inclusion of a female elf (and why wouldn't there be female elves in Mirkwood), but I didn't care much for the "love story" either - would have liked it better if it had just been a friendship/respect sort of thing, like Legolas & Gimli. I don't remember Legolas being quite so "anti-Dwarf" in LoTR, so in a way this could help explain that, his softened attitude I mean. Just IMO here.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 10 2016, 4:21pm

Post #36 of 98 (1712 views)
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Elrond's Folk [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I don't think I've ever seen that quote, where does it come from, and who is calling Thorin "father?"


That was one of the Elves of Rivendell having fun at Thorin's expense in the book. The company has reached Rivendell, leading their ponies to the river and a narrow bridge of stone:


Quote
"Don't dip your beard in the foam, father!" [the elves] cried to Thorin, who was almost on to his hands and knees. "It is long enough without watering it."


"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."


- Dream of the Endless


(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 10 2016, 4:30pm)


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Apr 10 2016, 4:26pm

Post #37 of 98 (1706 views)
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Yeah, that's what I'm getting at [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll agree with anyone that Kili didn't look very "Dwarvish," but have no problems with the rest of them. As I mentioned, they were supposed to be shorter, stockier and with larger ears and noses than regular men. Granted, some of the hairstyles were weird, but that isn't necessarily "anti-Dwarvish." And then there's personality. Dwarves are described as fierce fighters, and loyal to their kin. Balin looked so distressed when Thorin told them to "stand down," a very un-Dwarvish thing to do. He looked so conflicted - torn between loyalty to his King, and loyalty to his kin. I thought Dwalin confronting Thorin out of earshot from the others was also very Dwarvish - loyal enough to Thorin to NOT call him out in front of everyone else, but still wanting desperately to help Dain. Didn't Gimli describe Dwarves as being "fierce fighters?" I think one of the biggest complaints about BOT5A is that (at least in the theatrical version) there wasn't enough focus on the Dwarves fighting.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Apr 10 2016, 4:27pm

Post #38 of 98 (1704 views)
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Oh, okay, thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Apr 10 2016, 4:29pm

Post #39 of 98 (1695 views)
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Fili/Dean [In reply to] Can't Post

I promise you, Dean O'Gorman can grow quite a beard - I don't have it, but there's a photo out there where he's sporting a beard big enough to qualify for ZZ Top, LOL!Tongue

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


wizzardly
Rohan


Apr 10 2016, 4:31pm

Post #40 of 98 (1693 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

Hollywood definitely has been working towards certain agendas. Have a look see at the new ghostbusters film and the director's motivations, and you will see what I mean. This is called social conditioning.


Omnigeek
Lorien


Apr 10 2016, 5:51pm

Post #41 of 98 (1672 views)
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I'm sure he can [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have an issue with any of the actors. They were all fine actors and actresses and they did what signed up to do. Unlike many of the guys I grew up with, I don't equate facial growth with manhood (then again, I couldn't grow a decent beard to save my life even if I had months to do it). However, the looks of many of Thorin and Company were artistic decisions that I maintain violated the text and spirit of the books. That's fine, directors and producers and even authors often have to make decisions like that when converting a story to a new media. On the other hand, I just laugh when I see fans who are so defensive of PJ and WETA that they deny the black-and-white text and convince themselves those stubby growths are consistent with the story.


Omnigeek
Lorien


Apr 10 2016, 5:56pm

Post #42 of 98 (1686 views)
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Gimli is not the only yardstick [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If we are using Gimli as our yardstick then, for me, it is something of a tie between Balin and Glóin. Dwalin gets left behind because of his baldness (although I suppose he could be shaving his pate).


From the Prologue to The Lord of the Rings:


Some balding there but not a scraggly goatee or Van Dyke or even short-trimmed beardlet among them. Also no pimp furs. Wink


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Apr 10 2016, 7:17pm)


ange1e4e5
Gondor

Apr 10 2016, 5:57pm

Post #43 of 98 (1673 views)
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The guy on the far right looks like Gloin. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 10 2016, 6:27pm

Post #44 of 98 (1668 views)
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Too Big! [In reply to] Can't Post

Your image is far too big? Can you reduce it or replace it with a link?

"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."


- Dream of the Endless


Omnigeek
Lorien


Apr 10 2016, 6:43pm

Post #45 of 98 (1657 views)
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Can't edit the post [In reply to] Can't Post

but here's the link: https://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/dwarf-lords.jpg

and this should be a resized version:




ange1e4e5
Gondor

Apr 10 2016, 6:54pm

Post #46 of 98 (1650 views)
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Sorry, I meant Oin. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


wizzardly
Rohan


Apr 10 2016, 6:56pm

Post #47 of 98 (1654 views)
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but wait [In reply to] Can't Post

Which one is meant to be the "hot one" the girls are supposed to be swooning over? Wink


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 10 2016, 7:12pm

Post #48 of 98 (1640 views)
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The Council of Elrond [In reply to] Can't Post

There were also Gimli and his companions (including his father) at the Council of Elrond:



One of them actually does have a fairly short beard!

"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."


- Dream of the Endless


(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 10 2016, 7:13pm)


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 10 2016, 7:15pm

Post #49 of 98 (1627 views)
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Pic has been edited to a more viewable size. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


ange1e4e5
Gondor

Apr 10 2016, 7:15pm

Post #50 of 98 (1634 views)
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Because the dwarves aren't the main characters yet. [In reply to] Can't Post

The most prominent dwarf is Gimli and he is, compared with Frodo, Sam, Gandalf, and Aragorn, a supporting character. Thorin, for example, is a central character of The Hobbit.

I always follow my job through.

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