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Eruonen
Half-elven
Apr 8 2016, 6:46pm
Post #1 of 24
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I wonder if Middle Earth anthologies...like Star Wars movies....will ever happen.
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Various one off or even a series of films - mostly all non-canonical with only a few references to canon to place them in the time of ME.
They would have to be written by a terrific talent to warrant the effort. Hopefully, no studio - be it MGM or whoever obtains the rights would try to cash grab with a poor film.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 8 2016, 8:31pm
Post #2 of 24
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Warner Bros. is exploring a 'silo' approach to franchises...
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In lieu of the spotty performances of their more recent films (Batman v Superman for instance) Warner Bros. is considering taking a new approach that would develop several film franchises separately but at the same time. That could be good news for potential Middle-earth movies. However, I am uncertain of the precise limits imposed by the present film rights.
Original Middle-earth films could be made, derived from the texts of The Hobbit and/or The Lord of the Rings (including the Appendices), but I would not want Warners or any other studio to ruthlessly mine every scrap of the available texts for what would be essentially fan-fiction.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 8 2016, 10:53pm
Post #4 of 24
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There is enough detail in "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" to create a solid outline for a film about Aragorn's early years. I would make it his coming-of-age story starting with the circumstances of his birth and upbringing and end it with his reunion with Arwen in Lothlórien where they plight their troth. There is even the possibility of book-ending the story with Viggo Mortensen narrating as King Elessar.
Honestly, I don't see many strong possibilities beyond that, although the battles in the North in the last days of the War of the Ring do have some potential. I think that the biggest challenge would be folding them into a single narrative.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 8 2016, 10:56pm)
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Apr 9 2016, 2:47am
Post #5 of 24
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Yes, I think a script written "in the world of ME" but tangential to canon
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or if based on a short segment of the appendices expanded creatively. Though I prefer film if HBO or another tv company / MGM did a series - ala Game of Thrones - that might work.
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MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien
Apr 9 2016, 3:55am
Post #6 of 24
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The battles in the North could work
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There's just about enough in canon to make a small-scale film of the northern front during the War of the Ring. The Nazgul making Dain and offer, Gloin and Gimli going to Rivendell, the attack on Dale and siege of Erebor, Dain and Brand's last stand, and ultimately the rout of Sauron's army, maybe closing with Gimli taking some Dwarves to the Glittering Caves.
Also, Bombur now being morbidly obese is canon. It sounded funnier in the book.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 9 2016, 4:18am
Post #7 of 24
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There's just about enough in canon to make a small-scale film of the northern front during the War of the Ring. The Nazgul making Dain and offer, Gloin and Gimli going to Rivendell, the attack on Dale and siege of Erebor, Dain and Brand's last stand, and ultimately the rout of Sauron's army...
At the same time, the Elves of Mirkwood and Lothlórien had both come under attack from Dol Guldur. Those battles should probably be incorporated into such a film as well; although, I don't know how they would all be tied together unless it was through a character such as Tauriel (who has connections with Mirkwood, Dale and Erebor).
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 9 2016, 4:19am)
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Apr 9 2016, 12:48pm
Post #8 of 24
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Though I would love to see those films they have the significant problem
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of being supplemental chapters to a movie already made. My guess is that such anthology films would have to present episodes in different times. The War in the North may be too anticlimactic.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 9 2016, 1:18pm
Post #9 of 24
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My guess is that such anthology films would have to present episodes in different times. The War in the North may be too anticlimactic.
To use an example from history, the Battle of the Alamo is only one incident that led to the Mexican-American War ten years later, but it gets more attention than the entire later war. A good script that makes the audience like and care about the main protagonists might be enough to overcome the weaknesses that you point out.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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EomundDaughter
Lorien
Apr 11 2016, 8:27pm
Post #12 of 24
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Tolkiens works are more complicated than Star Wars....
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...think that makes them more scrutinized by fans and more difficult to put to film.....heard there are more Avatar films planned...
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Darkstone
Immortal
Apr 11 2016, 8:48pm
Post #13 of 24
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The hobbit trip through the Old Forest and the Barrow-downs could repurposed as a stand alone adventure. So might the Scouring of the Shire. Of course they could be done as flashbacks...
******************************************
“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
"Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
"But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!”
"Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!"
"No way!"
"Way!"
"Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!"
"Cool!!"
-Zack Snyder's The Return of the King
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 11 2016, 8:59pm
Post #14 of 24
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The hobbit trip through the Old Forest and the Barrow-downs could repurposed as a stand alone adventure. So might the Scouring of the Shire. Of course they could be done as flashbacks...
To tell either of those as stand-alone stories would require rewriting them extensively--not to mention padding them quite a bit. Either one is too slight, by itself, for a feature film.
I do think that Peter Jackson could have worked the Barrow-downs sequence into his FotR by replacing Tom Bombadil with the High Elf Gildor (or with Strider, but that would have meant completely changing how he is introduced).
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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squire
Half-elven
Apr 11 2016, 9:53pm
Post #15 of 24
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But difficult in a different way than making the "War in the North" or "Aragorn's Journey"
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Yes, those episodes are short. But they are fully written with dialogue, situation, and characters by Tolkien. Any "rewriting" and "padding" would be more excusable as a necessity of adaptation to film.
The writers of any other stories not actually in LotR (which these are, though unfilmed by Jackson) would be facing, essentially, a blank slate supported by a map and a few paragraphs in the appendices. The latter cases are much more like fan-fiction, at least as I understand the term when we apply it to the problem of producing a full-length film for which there is no underlying narrative text by the original author.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
 = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 11 2016, 10:27pm
Post #16 of 24
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Yes, those episodes are short. But they are fully written with dialogue, situation, and characters by Tolkien. Any "rewriting" and "padding" would be more excusable as a necessity of adaptation to film.
The changes that would be necessary to turn either of those short episodes into full-length movies would be so extensive as to turn them into fan-fiction, especially if they remain in the continuity of the Peter Jackson films. The Scouring of the Shire can't be about Saruman and Wormtongue; their stories ended at the beginning of RotK. We've also seen that Frodo and his three companions return to the Shire without incident, so this must be something that happens later than that, maybe started by a Mannish outlaw-chief.
The tale of the journey through the Old Forest and the fog on the Barrow-downs is even more problematic in that it's just a sequence of loosely-related episodes without a strong plot. One solution might be to fold it into the Scouring of the Shire story; although, there still isn't a strong connection between the pair of tales.
The story of Aragorn's errantries and journeys is only sketched out; however, it is sketched out very thoroughly, providing a strong outline on which to hang a movie, especially when combined with other material from Appendix A on the Kings of the Mark and the Stewards of Gondor. There are some questions concerning the order of events, but keeping the story in the context of the Jackson films actually helps with that, suggesting that Aragorn's great journeys into the East and South could come first.
The War(s) in the North regarding Erebor and Dale against the Easterlings, the Woodland Realm and Lothlórien defending themselves against attacks from Dol Guldur might be the most difficult to adapt out of all of these examples. We have a good grasp of the events and which characters are involved, but there isn't a strong through-line connecting the problems of the Elves to those faced by the Bardings and the Dwarves (except that they are parts of the larger War of the Ring). Dol Guldur and the Easterlings work independently of each other. and their battles don't cross over with each other. That is a problem that would need to be addressed unless we can turn them into two, separate films.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 11 2016, 10:35pm)
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Apr 12 2016, 1:04pm
Post #18 of 24
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I wonder if something along those lines for squeezing more $ out of the rights is actually sketched out.
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Wainrider
Rivendell
Apr 19 2016, 2:54am
Post #19 of 24
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I just mentioned in another post that a movie about the history of Eriador could work, especially as seen through the hobbits' eyes. You have elves, dwarves, dunedain, wolves, the witch king, and of course barrow wights! Maybe even Tom Bombadil but that might be overkill.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 19 2016, 3:23am
Post #20 of 24
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Well, I replied to that post in the other thread, and I'll ask here: How would you make a history of Eriador interesting to a general audience? What characters and conflicts would you focus on so you don't basically have a dry documentary? It's not that I don't think it could be done, but help me to see how it could work.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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Wainrider
Rivendell
Apr 19 2016, 3:52am
Post #21 of 24
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I think it's very doable. You have a brief mention of the first age- men and elves passing through Eriador and some staying there in places like Bree, then the second age- the fall of numenor, Elendil coming to middle earth and Sauron creating mordor and the ringwraiths, and then you cover the third age in the rest of the film.
The main story of the film would be the rise of Arnor (and Gondor), the coming of the witch king to Angmar and his wars with the Dunedain. Interspersed through that story you show the hobbits coming to Eriador, the founding of the Shire, the long winter, white wolves, the barrow wights etc. You could also show parts of the various troubles afflicting Gondor at that time like the easterlings, ringwraiths capturing minas morgul, etc.
There is actually a lot of history there with different factions that could make many interesting scenes. The fall or Arthedain would be the climax of the film, but the hobbits thriving afterwards would be the happy ending.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 19 2016, 4:13am
Post #22 of 24
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I think that your proposal lacks focus; it is too broad and undeveloped, especially for a single film. Concentrate on a tighter story with only a few major characters that can be more fully developed, whether it is the corruption of Ar-Pharazôn by Sauron and the fall of Númenor; the last days of King Arvedui and the fall of the kingdoms of Arthedain and Angmar; or the Battle of Dale, the resulting siege and Dol Guldur's assaults on the Woodland Realm and Lothlórien.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 19 2016, 4:14am)
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moreorless
Gondor
Apr 21 2016, 7:15am
Post #23 of 24
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To some degree yes but less so than say the recent Star Wars.
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I don't believe there is enough dialogue or situational detail anywhere in LotR or The Hobbit that could be the basis of a new film without massive injections of what could only be called fan-fiction. Young Aragorn and Arwen; the War in the North; Bridge Film between TH and LR; Bilbo's Adventures after his Party; Legolas and Gimli after the War; The Fell Winter; etc. These are one-liners, or at best a few vignettes (Aragorn). None could be turned into a feature film using any traditional devices of adaptation; all would be written from scratch by screenwriters.
But I do believe there would be a substantial market for such films, if I read some fans' posts on this forum correctly. So if the legal rights could be 'creatively' run around by some savvy lawyers, let the ruthless mining begin. There's no other kind of mining left, as I see it.
Your definitely looking at a shift from the previous Tolkien films with any further releases(even if the Sil rights were sold) in terms of a lot more invention likely being needed. I would definitely be wary of this in the current Hollywood climate for production line blockbusters which is why if something does happen I would like to see Jackson and co involved on some level, at least then I think theres a chance they could help bring though the work of a creative director/writer rather than just looking at the bottom line.
I see this as rather different from the recent Star Wars film though. There I think you were dealing with a naturally much more limited world that existed almost entirely to tell the story of the original trilogy of films. The end result was I felt that Abrams film depended much too heavily on revivalism of existing material and IMHO ended up undermining the conclusion of the originals(basically every achievement of the heroes is undone to reset things).
Tolkien on the other hand whilst he doesn't offer any further stories with the depth of the Hobbit or LOTR does offer quite a number of potential frameworks for stories that do already existing within his world. I would say as well that Middle Erath/Arda in general has more depth to it in terms of themes and locations that can easily be included into a new story.
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Boromir Stark
Rivendell
Apr 29 2016, 11:42am
Post #24 of 24
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I'd love to see the story of Turin made into a movie.
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That'd be SICK!
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Our friends at website Herr-der-Ringen think so.
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