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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Mar 28 2016, 8:09am
Post #1 of 5
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Gandalf and Bilbo quotes
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Is it a trace of Gandalf influence on Bilbo when in the hobbit when Gandalf arrives to Bag End he makes this funny word game with the Good Morning speech and later on on the 111th Bilbo´s birthday party when he makes his speech to the hobbit families: I don´t know half of you...?
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to The Battle for the Fifth Trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
There and Back Again Traveller
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Mar 28 2016, 1:19pm
Post #2 of 5
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but I doubt it. Bilbo, a rich bachelor, was educated beyond the norm of the average Hobbit of the Shire, and I’m sure was well aware of Gandalf’s play on the “Good mornings”. Notice that Bilbo gets in the last “Good morning”.
And as it had been over 75 years between the two exchanges it’s doubtful that Bilbo was influenced by the old “Good morning” exchange. He was totally capable of making up his “half of you” speech with no outside influence imo.
"I never said most of the things I said."
- Yogi & Me
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Mar 28 2016, 2:21pm
Post #3 of 5
(596 views)
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I always follow my job through.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Mar 28 2016, 3:30pm
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First, both Gandalf and Bilbo have much of Tolkien in them. The good professor was a philologist, a lover of words and phrases. I recall someone writing how Tolkien would save up interesting idioms and colloquialisms and then spring them on people during dinner conversations. So both the Good Morning routine and the Farewell Speech puzzler could be simply Tolkien being Tolkien.
That said, people do tend to pick up on elements of their friends’ conversational quirks, so it would be no surprise if Bilbo picked up some of Gandalf's. Indeed, the little notes appended for the recipients of Bilbo’s birthday are surely more typical of the irascible Gandalf than the correctly polite and socially respectable Bilbo we met at the beginning of The Hobbit.
Bilbo becomes more Gandalfy and less hobbity in other ways. He becomes aloof and secretive (though maybe that's the Ring), interested in adventuring and non-hobbit history, and generous with and nurturing of the younger generation. Would a non-Gandalfian Bilbo have taken in Frodo? Would he have taught Sam his letters with tales of Elves and Dragons? Bilbo seems to have paid forward a lot of the effects of Gandalf's friendship.
Which leads to the question about the effect of Bilbo (and of hobbits in general) upon Gandalf. In Valinor Olorin (Gandalf) was nervous when chosen, reluctant and afraid to come to Middle-earth. When the White Council was formed he seems to have lacked the confidence to take on the leadership role. Is it then too far afield to speculate that later Gandalf found his courage and purpose through his friendship with the hobbits?
Thanks for that!
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“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
"Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
"But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!”
"Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!"
"No way!"
"Way!"
"Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!"
"Cool!!"
-Zack Snyder's The Return of the King
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Mar 28 2016, 5:49pm
Post #5 of 5
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Guess I was thinking of the Unexpected Party and the beginning of Frodo's quest. -- 77 years... (Duh! on me  )
"I never said most of the things I said."
- Yogi & Me
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