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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
If you could ask PJ and co one thing about a character or scene...
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LSF
Gondor

Feb 29 2016, 5:34pm

Post #1 of 64 (2153 views)
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If you could ask PJ and co one thing about a character or scene... Can't Post

If you could ask PJ and Co one thing about why a scene went this way, or about an aspect of a character, or why a deleted scene we know about was deleted... what would it be? And why? I ask for one question, because it's interesting to see what's most pressing on your minds Smile

Mine would be: What else was Bofur supposed to do in BOFA? In the DOS EE, they make a point to say that it was important for Bofur to be there in Laketown and experience all that first-hand, and it would play out in BOFA. But that doesn't amount to anything at all, except maybe giving Thorin a weird look when he threatens to kill Thranduil and Bard over the arkenstone, and being more upset than the others when the dwarves and elves start fighting each other.

Was he supposed to join Kili in verbally protesting against Thorin? Did he offer to give some of his share of the gold to Bard, only for Thorin to slap him down? Did he try to talk reason to Thorin about helping the Laketowners? Did he lead the others in a discussion on what to do now that Thorin's gone off the deep end?

Bofur is my favorite, and anything on something that had a lot of potential like this situation would be great to know.


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Feb 29 2016, 6:58pm

Post #2 of 64 (1974 views)
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Mine [In reply to] Can't Post

"Why the Dol Guldur plot was so stripped down to such an minimum amount? "

Because from all the chronicle stuff ,published pictures or deleted scenes there was SO MUCH more potential to it and and a wasted opportunity to go into more detail with Sauron /Annatar theme.

If I just have a look at the scripts of Gandalf chasing the spirit of Sauron to the Sea of Rhún...How great that would have been
visually (even if just for the Extended Cut) to see... !

The way the whole plot went was just Ok, still not as good as it could have been. I was looking forward to it a lot but I have to state now, that it probably would have been better to leave it out completely and give the main story more space.

A bridge movie would have been the best to cover this interesting topic better than the movies did in the end.

Just my two Cents. ..


(This post was edited by NoelGallagher on Feb 29 2016, 7:06pm)


Ringtir
Rivendell


Feb 29 2016, 7:33pm

Post #3 of 64 (1955 views)
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how wpuld have been the original story for Beorn? [In reply to] Can't Post

Specially when the company leaves the Queer Lodgings, the music rise and create tension, then suddenly they arrive to Mirkwood and nothing happens


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 29 2016, 7:51pm

Post #4 of 64 (1948 views)
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Only one? [In reply to] Can't Post

If I could only ask one such question, it might be: Why did you feel you had to introduce the High Fells and tombs for the Nazgûl? Even Tolkien had them seemingly doing their own things during Sauron's absence, with the Witch-king in Angmar and the others ruling more distant regions. What was wrong with that?

"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."


- Dream of the Endless


ThorinsNemesis
Lorien


Feb 29 2016, 7:54pm

Post #5 of 64 (1941 views)
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Mine [In reply to] Can't Post

About a scene:
Why was the palantir scene deleted?

About a character:
Why didn't Sauron interrogate Gandalf about the Three Rings instead of the orc taking that role?



Avandel
Half-elven


Feb 29 2016, 7:58pm

Post #6 of 64 (1937 views)
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The dwarf/Thranduil meeting [In reply to] Can't Post

Even PJ sees the *greatness* - e.g, at times, PJ knows well to give a good length of time to a scene, and let it breathe (Bilbo/Smaug, entering Erebor, Starlight...)

The dwarf/Thranduil thing drives me *mad* tho. Unimpressed


Darkstone
Immortal


Feb 29 2016, 9:18pm

Post #7 of 64 (1918 views)
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Whatever happened to Itaril? [In reply to] Can't Post

Saoirse Ronan would have made a great Elf.

Supposedly she pulled out to star in Hanna (2011) but Cate Blanchett starred in Hanna as well (as the antagonist) and was still able to play a major role in The Hobbit trilogy.

******************************************

I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Feb 29 2016, 9:37pm

Post #8 of 64 (1908 views)
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Mine [In reply to] Can't Post

How Beorn being tortured and being part of the Dol Guldur subplot would have been like and why it was not in the final cut.


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Feb 29 2016, 10:21pm

Post #9 of 64 (1890 views)
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Bofur [In reply to] Can't Post

My guess is, that's what makes him sympathetic to Bilbo's "escape" on the ramparts - my favorite scene in the BOT5A EE!

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


LSF
Gondor

Feb 29 2016, 10:23pm

Post #10 of 64 (1884 views)
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my fave scene too [In reply to] Can't Post

It's just that, the way they talked about it in the DOS commentary, it sounded like it was supposed to be more to it than letting Bilbo leave, if that was part of it. Especially since he's already close to Bilbo and probably would've let him leave anyway.


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Feb 29 2016, 10:25pm

Post #11 of 64 (1887 views)
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That was an early script [In reply to] Can't Post

I heard that she just didn't want to do it, and personally I'm glad. She's too young for Aidan Turner.

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 29 2016, 10:28pm

Post #12 of 64 (1884 views)
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Itaril [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, heck, I can answer that one. Itaril evolved into Tauriel. The most substantial changes are: her ELF LORD love-interest is altered to become Thorin's nephew Kili; and the role was cast a little older than originally described (AGE: 17-27).

"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."


- Dream of the Endless


Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Feb 29 2016, 10:31pm

Post #13 of 64 (1876 views)
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Fili [In reply to] Can't Post

Why didn't you dedicate more time to develop Fili?


Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Feb 29 2016, 10:40pm

Post #14 of 64 (1873 views)
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There's so many [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't really think of any in AUJ, I thought that movie was pretty close to perfect. In DOS I hated the "Bollocks" scene, but I have a bigger problem with the fish scene. I partially understand it - there were no lids on the barrels for obvious reasons, but I really thought that was overkill. Why couldn't Bard just get some barrel lids - not as suspenseful? And don't get me started on Alfrid's overuse. Overall I thought there was just too much comic relief, which felt more and more out of place as the story grew darker.


As far as deleted scenes go, I can share Avandel's frustration that the Dwarves vs Thranduil scene was cut, even if I can partially understand why. PJ said "You just want to get them in their cells," well NO, not really! But I suppose that could have detracted from the confrontation between Thorin & Thranduil; however the scene in BOT5A where Gandalf reminds Thranduil that his wife also left him a son would have been a great addition. It would help explain Thranduil's going after Legolas (although really, that probably doesn't need much explanation, does it?). Then there's the "Everything I did, I did for them" line from the trailer - really would like to know where that fit in. Oh, but you said just ONE question - oops!Blush

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


LSF
Gondor

Feb 29 2016, 10:44pm

Post #15 of 64 (1868 views)
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One thing [In reply to] Can't Post

The most pressing thing you would ask PJ about, yes. Like if you were at a convention PJ panel and they usually only let you ask one question at those things Wink


OldestDaughter
Rohan


Feb 29 2016, 11:47pm

Post #16 of 64 (1846 views)
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I would ask [In reply to] Can't Post

For the Hobbit, why was BOFA ended so quickly. I know casual movie goers complained about the end of ROTK length, but I personally loved the longer endings. Thank goodness for the EE of BOFA that some length was given back to it!
For the LOTR's, why exclude the Healing of Faramir and Merry in the Houses of Healing, and Faramir and Eowyn's wedding.( I know that later had been filmed for sure!) And it would of been cool to have a hint of Tom Bombadil and Ghan-Buri-Ghan!




"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Mar 1 2016, 12:30am

Post #17 of 64 (1844 views)
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I would [In reply to] Can't Post

Ask why the gems weren't explained a little better, probably. I would also ask why he felt "BotFA" needed to be so short in relation to the rest.

"And you can trust me. Because I don't care enough about you to lie."
- Parks and Recreation

(This post was edited by TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense on Mar 1 2016, 12:31am)


Never_Underestimate_A_Dwarf
Rivendell


Mar 1 2016, 12:39am

Post #18 of 64 (1839 views)
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Whyyyyyyyy [In reply to] Can't Post

Why did you do that to Fili?

Justice for Fili


Avandel
Half-elven


Mar 1 2016, 1:08am

Post #19 of 64 (1828 views)
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Sigh [In reply to] Can't Post

Ditto, more or less. The OP asked about a single scene. But overall, my number one would be WHY did PJ feel as tho BOFA had to have a "short and snappy" approachUnimpressed, for IMO material that was screaming for "epic fantasy treatment", not "thriller treatment".


lionoferebor
Rohan


Mar 1 2016, 2:44am

Post #20 of 64 (1805 views)
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Anyone of these: [In reply to] Can't Post

Why wasn't more focus given to Fili's character? Why make Fili the eldest and heir, but not develop a relationship between him and Thorin? Also, what was Fili doing on the chariot? Why was he even included in that scene?


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Mar 1 2016, 6:20am

Post #21 of 64 (1769 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Also, what was Fili doing on the chariot? Why was he even included in that scene?

So he can arrive on Ravenhill with the other and later die.


lionoferebor
Rohan


Mar 1 2016, 7:02am

Post #22 of 64 (1760 views)
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I know... [In reply to] Can't Post

I was being sarcastic.


DeadRabbits
Rohan


Mar 1 2016, 12:14pm

Post #23 of 64 (1717 views)
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Easy: A Sauron centered prologue for BOFA... [In reply to] Can't Post

... beginning with Radagast coming to Lothlorien in haste to ask Galadriel for aid, proceeding with her telling the backstory of Sauron and the three Elven rings, and ending with his proposed alliance with Smaug, alluded to in DOS, to tie the prologue directly to the attack on Laketown right at the beginning of BOFA.

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


dormouse
Half-elven


Mar 1 2016, 2:25pm

Post #24 of 64 (1693 views)
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Good question. I keep thinking about it, and the honest answer is... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I don't know. It's a nice idea, but every question I can think of - or read in other people's posts - I suspect I already know the answer to. As for example, why he didn't include the dwarves being taken before Thranduil, or more of Kili, or Bilbo planting the acorn, or a resolution to the necklace. I think the answer on all those would be that while that scene would have been cool to see and they did film it, in the end he just didn't feel it was necessary to the story. And that would make for a pretty boring conversation. Really it would just be a way of saying that I would have liked to see - whatever it was.

Avandel's question about the very tight cut of BotFA is a good one but there again, I suspect we know the answer because it's in the EE appendices. They ran out of time to complete scenes that they would have included.

So if I could ask him something I think I'd ask if there's ever going to be a complete six-film Middle-earth boxed set (please) and, if so, if he'd consider revisiting at least some of those scenes from both trilogies that were filmed but not used. Scenes that people would still love to see, and would he add them either to the relevant film or at least as deleted scenes. I think there's a part of him that wants to show them - or else, why would scenes like Bilbo planting the acorn, and Gandalf telling Thranduil that his son is more important than a necklace, have been in the appendices in such a complete form? So that's what I'd ask him. Not why didn't you, but will you, perhaps.... Maybe he could even select a shortlist and invite fans to vote on which ones go in.... I love the films as they are, but I'd always be ready and willing to see more! Cool

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Noria
Gondor

Mar 1 2016, 2:44pm

Post #25 of 64 (1677 views)
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Good question [In reply to] Can't Post

I too would ask why PJ felt that BOTFA had to be shorter than the other movies.

I don’t really buy the running out of time to finish some elements. I have no trouble believing that some individual scenes were not ready but the shorter running time seemed to me to be more of a long standing and deliberate decision. For instance the chariot chase scene was trimmed and trimmed until it was meaningless and then was lifted out completely. Why did it have to be cut back at all?

And I would ask why Fili didn’t have more story, maybe exploring his somewhat conflicted relationship with Thorin for instance. His character would then have had more resonance and his death more meaning.

And I might ask if Gandalf did not have something to say to Thorin about meeting Thrain, though admittedly there wasn’t really an opportunity for that.

Obviously these were all PJ's choices to make but I disagree with some of them and would like to know more of his reasoning. One thing I would not ask about is the resolution to the Dol Guldur subplot in BOTFA, which I don’t really like, because that would be more of a debate.

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