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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Some thoughts from a book-lover AND a movie-lover. . .
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hamlet
Rivendell


Feb 27 2016, 4:51pm

Post #1 of 94 (1813 views)
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Some thoughts from a book-lover AND a movie-lover. . . Can't Post

I first read "The Hobbit" when I was in middle school, and then I eagerly devoured "The Lord of the Rings" and everything else by or about Tolkien that I could lay my hands on. For many years, I re-read "The Hobbit" and LOTR annually (sometimes even bi-annually), but at some point in the mid-90's I stopped. Work, family, life -- you know. And then when the LOTR films began, I became a huge fan of Peter Jackson. And when "The Hobbit" films came out, once again I relished my chance to be transported back to Middle Earth. Just this year, for the first time since the 90's, I re-read "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings," and I was struck by two things:
1) I had actually forgotten what an amazing storyteller Tolkien is. The beautiful imagery, the detail, the complexity of the narrative, the heartbreaking combination of joy and tragedy -- it took my breath away. I remembered why I fell in love with these books in the first place.
AND
2) Reading these books again made me love and appreciate the films even more. We hear so many complaints on these message boards about all the things the films changed, cut, or added, that it's easy to overlook how much of Tolkien IS in the these films. Thanks to my re-reading of the books, I have a newfound respect for Peter Jackson and his team, and I enjoy the Hobbit films (and the LOTR films also) to a greater degree than I did before.


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Feb 27 2016, 5:00pm

Post #2 of 94 (1679 views)
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I heartily endorse this post [In reply to] Can't Post

For president of 2016.

"And you can trust me. Because I don't care enough about you to lie."
- Parks and Recreation


Avandel
Half-elven


Feb 27 2016, 5:53pm

Post #3 of 94 (1670 views)
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Thank you - wonderfully said IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

THIS:


Quote
Reading these books again made me love and appreciate the films even more. We hear so many complaints on these message boards about all the things the films changed, cut, or added, that it's easy to overlook how much of Tolkien IS in the these films. Thanks to my re-reading of the books, I have a newfound respect for Peter Jackson and his team, and I enjoy the Hobbit films (and the LOTR films also) to a greater degree than I did before.


Very true, IMO! Had an idle thought just the other day, when I was casually checking movies that were coming out, and thinking about "special effects" and WETA sculptures (Minas Tirith and the Argonath - in connection with disk collector sets) - e.g., a whole set of free-flowing thoughts about films and Peter Jackon's work - IMO Peter Jackson's "vision" and execution of that vision IMO is just so timeless. IMO the films could all be in good quality B & W and they would still resonate.

I was thinking of Rivendell and the flowing lines and the sculptures in the Council chamber (which I love)Heart. Every tiny detail, someone had to envision that, someone had to create. Sometimes I think the films are easier to appreciate in stills, that capture a perfect moment in time. And re the books, all those nods to the material that PJ worked into the film - the bits of Khuzdul, the mention of the wizards, gold flowing across a stone floor - and of course the creation of Bag End and the Golden Hall, Erebor and Minas Tirith, Weathertop and Dol Guldur, Bree and Mordor and the Marshes; the costumes and the weapons.

Now the movies "color" the books for me, and the books "color" the films. And both are enriched, for meHeart.



Artist: Kinko White on Deviant Art; "Autumn Party"


hamlet
Rivendell


Feb 27 2016, 6:19pm

Post #4 of 94 (1652 views)
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BOTH are enriched. [In reply to] Can't Post

I love that comment. Of course the books are the original, and people are understandably protective of them, but having taken about 20 years between Hobbit/LOTR readings, I found the book experience enriched (to borrow your words) by the films, and vice-versa. I prefer to think of these masterpieces (one literary and one cinematic) as having a symbiotic relationship rather than an oppositional one.


dormouse
Half-elven


Feb 27 2016, 6:31pm

Post #5 of 94 (1643 views)
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Thanks for this.... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
1) I had actually forgotten what an amazing storyteller Tolkien is. The beautiful imagery, the detail, the complexity of the narrative, the heartbreaking combination of joy and tragedy -- it took my breath away. I remembered why I fell in love with these books in the first place.
AND
2) Reading these books again made me love and appreciate the films even more. We hear so many complaints on these message boards about all the things the films changed, cut, or added, that it's easy to overlook how much of Tolkien IS in the these films. Thanks to my re-reading of the books, I have a newfound respect for Peter Jackson and his team, and I enjoy the Hobbit films (and the LOTR films also) to a greater degree than I did before.


I hadn't forgotten; even so the films help me to see the stories with fresh eyes - both for the imagery, from the sweep of the landscape to the tiniest details of costume and set dressing - and for the emotional heart of the stories, which the films get right, for me. The books inform the films, the films inform the books. I feel very privileged to have been around to see it happening.


For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Noria
Gondor

Feb 28 2016, 1:45pm

Post #6 of 94 (1531 views)
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Great post, Hamlet, and timely as well. [In reply to] Can't Post

And nice posts from everyone else too.

The LotR were a lovely surprise to this old book fan who hadn't had high expectations of them before they were released. My expectations were higher for TH movies and I wasn't disappointed.

I love the books for what they are and love the movies for what they are.


Gandalf the Green
Rivendell

Feb 28 2016, 6:11pm

Post #7 of 94 (1471 views)
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- [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
that it's easy to overlook how much of Tolkien IS in the these films.


Indeed, that's pretty easy to do when you constantly have to pretend there's much of Tolkien in these films.


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Feb 28 2016, 6:27pm

Post #8 of 94 (1457 views)
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No one has to pretend anything that's true [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"And you can trust me. Because I don't care enough about you to lie."
- Parks and Recreation


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Feb 28 2016, 6:55pm

Post #9 of 94 (1447 views)
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Wrong [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Indeed, that's pretty easy to do when you constantly have to pretend there's much of Tolkien in these films

You don't have to pretend anything. I just saw BOFA EE and Tolken is everywhere, from Smaug attack on Lake-town, the Arkenstone subplot, a thief in the night, Thorin and Bard talking at the gate, Thorin's death, the funeral, Bilbo saying goodbye to the dwarves, Bilbo saying goodbye to Gandalf, the auction, Bilbo getting knocked down on Ravenhill, the eagles plus many lines from the book is in the film.


LSF
Gondor

Feb 28 2016, 7:07pm

Post #10 of 94 (1438 views)
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hmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, as one who couldn't even get through the books, I see a whole lot of Tolkien in all six movies.

Though, the way some people are telling it, there's a world where the hobbit movies completely failed in audience reception, critical reception, and tanked financially. A world where PJ was only in it for the money and sought out to take over and destroy Tolkien. A world where only 12 people like these movies and they are all on this forum... Tongue


Gandalf the Green
Rivendell

Feb 28 2016, 7:42pm

Post #11 of 94 (1426 views)
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Putting some of the events from the book is one thing, [In reply to] Can't Post

actually managing to capture the spirit of said book is another. And the films didn't manage to do that, except for in a few places.


(This post was edited by Gandalf the Green on Feb 28 2016, 7:44pm)


Ringtir
Rivendell


Feb 28 2016, 7:53pm

Post #12 of 94 (1416 views)
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yeish [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't understand why some people says that Legolas skateboarding in a spider, jumping trough the dwarves heads while they are in barrels going down in the rapids, hunting 30 orcs in Laketown (while luckily there isn't noone around), riding a bat and killing Bolg is untolkien...

Anyway, glad all you enjoy the movies.


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Feb 28 2016, 7:54pm

Post #13 of 94 (1411 views)
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But it did [In reply to] Can't Post

All the things I said in the last post is in the spirit of Tolkien. And we have also the Good morning scene, riddles in the dark, pity of Bilbo, the songs, Smaug vs Bilbo, the trolls, Introduction to Beorn, Mirkwood, Rivendel, on the doorstep, Bag End, the prologue, the prophecy, meeting in Bree, spiders and more that is in the spirit of Tolkien. Plus we have things that are not in the book but are still in spirit of Tolkien, like the acorn scene, feast of starlight, way the hafling and Bilbo's speech after Goblintown.


LSF
Gondor

Feb 28 2016, 7:58pm

Post #14 of 94 (1410 views)
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You do realize... [In reply to] Can't Post

Not every single moment is going to be Tolkien. Because... it's not his movie, and he didn't make it. I expect anyone who makes an adaptation movie to put what they want to in there. I would expect to see Steven Spielberg's style and things he wants to see in them if he made them. Or del Toro's, or...


AshNazg
Gondor


Feb 28 2016, 8:10pm

Post #15 of 94 (1404 views)
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Glad people are finally seeing how great the Rankin/Bass cartoon is... [In reply to] Can't Post

As it also includes lots of things from the book, and therefore is very Tolkien.


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Feb 28 2016, 8:18pm

Post #16 of 94 (1395 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
As it also includes lots of things from the book, and therefore is very Tolkien.

I have not seen the entire film, but I have seen a few clips on Youtube and from what I can see it is quite true to the book and the spirit of Tolkien.


ange1e4e5
Gondor

Feb 28 2016, 8:22pm

Post #17 of 94 (1392 views)
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Except with the part about people whirling out of sight when they're killed, case in point being the Great Goblin. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


AshNazg
Gondor


Feb 28 2016, 8:32pm

Post #18 of 94 (1391 views)
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PJ handled this part much better... [In reply to] Can't Post

When Thorin blocks The Great Goblin with Orcrist and The Great Goblin stumbles backwards and falls off the platform for no reason...

https://youtu.be/azO5_ATDppc?t=1m15s (1:15) Laugh


(This post was edited by AshNazg on Feb 28 2016, 8:33pm)


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Feb 28 2016, 8:47pm

Post #19 of 94 (1374 views)
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Wait a second, now... [In reply to] Can't Post

Almost *every single event* from the book is in the film. That's a far cry from 'some,' no?

And the spirit of a light adventure, briming with curiosity of the outside world gradually deepening in peril until becoming a musing on war and greed is very much presented by the three movies.

"And you can trust me. Because I don't care enough about you to lie."
- Parks and Recreation


Ringtir
Rivendell


Feb 28 2016, 8:53pm

Post #20 of 94 (1368 views)
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Too much Tolkien? or too much Marvel? [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand that you like the movies, but between Legolas the OTT elf, the Grima's parody, Kill/Tauriel lame romance, LOTR fanservice, long sequences of badly executed action scenes with poor CGI, nearly half of the movie its about PJs desires.

And without the story of Beorn, more completed backstory to Thranduil, much focus to Bilbo/Thorin relation (in DoS), the amount of tolkienish stuff is highly reduced.


wizzardly
Rohan

Feb 28 2016, 8:55pm

Post #21 of 94 (1365 views)
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yes [In reply to] Can't Post

I've always liked the Rankin/Bass version, and now after PJ's version, I appreciate it even more!


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Feb 28 2016, 9:06pm

Post #22 of 94 (1353 views)
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Not really [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I understand that you like the movies, but between Legolas the OTT elf, the Grima's parody, Kill/Tauriel lame romance, LOTR fanservice, long sequences of badly executed action scenes with poor CGI, nearly half of the movie its about PJs desires.

If you look at some of the things I have said on this thread you will see that there is more scenes that is close to the book and are true to the spirit of the book then the things you are talking about.


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Feb 28 2016, 9:09pm

Post #23 of 94 (1352 views)
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You maybe like it better [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I've always liked the Rankin/Bass version, and now after PJ's version, I appreciate it even more!

But you must agree on that PJ did a more faithful version of the Good morning scene and the dwarves introduction, and the dealing with the arkenstone and Beorn.


ange1e4e5
Gondor

Feb 28 2016, 9:10pm

Post #24 of 94 (1347 views)
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Seconded. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ringtir
Rivendell


Feb 28 2016, 9:17pm

Post #25 of 94 (1335 views)
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Hello Smaug :) I read your post and... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think your right in those. I love the first hour of BoFA. Specially the Arkenstone peace or war negotiation. The second hour flows between some Tolkien, lot of PJ action segments, and the superboring Alfrid and Legolas stuff.

And also apart from the Tolkien or nontolkien discussion, i can't stand the the Kili over Fili decision.

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