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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Feb 16 2016, 5:40pm
Post #1 of 13
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The Dol Guldor subplot
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So, in this, there is none of that nonsense about Sauron feigning to flee from Dol Guldor. He is driven out. I don't mind that as a change to be honest. I have often thought the feigning to retreat idea one of the weaker ideas in Tolkien. Not quite sure why he wrote it that way to be honest. But anyway, this is one change which does suit the movie in my opinion.
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StingingFly
Lorien
Feb 16 2016, 8:32pm
Post #2 of 13
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I think Sauron being driven out makes less sense in this case. Sauron is a deceiver. If you aren't prepared to engage your enemy you could retreat, but that would encourage pursuit. Even better, let them believe that they defeated you. This is clearly the best option for an emergent Sauron. Nuclear Galadriel using evil to defeat evil was confusing on many levels. If she is the most powerful being in middle earth, which is clearly the case watching the Hobbit films, why did she do nothing during the LOTR movies? I believe that's a consequence of focusing on an agenda (such as injecting 'feminine energy') instead of telling a good story.
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LSF
Gondor
Feb 16 2016, 8:36pm
Post #3 of 13
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"If she is the most powerful being in middle earth, which is clearly the case watching the Hobbit films, why did she do nothing during the LOTR movies?"
This explains that she used up too much of her power at DG to do anything like this again in LOTR (at least that we see in the movies). Saruman understood what happened and said that her strength is failing now, when he told Elrond to take her back to Lothlorien.
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Feb 16 2016, 8:59pm
Post #4 of 13
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Nuclear Galadriel using evil to defeat evil was confusing on many levels. If she is the most powerful being in middle earth, which is clearly the case watching the Hobbit films, why did she do nothing during the LOTR movies? When she banish Sauron, she use all of her power to do this, after that she is weak and can never have that much power again. Just as Saruman said "She has spent to much of her power, her strength is failing". So she is much weaker in LOTR. (That is what I am calling, telling a good story.
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StingingFly
Lorien
Feb 16 2016, 9:17pm
Post #5 of 13
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I don't believe this holds up when viewing her character in LOTR. At the end of Dul Guldor she is exhausted, much like she'd finished a marathon, but she had decades to recover and didn't appear 'weakened' in FOTR. Also, if she is the one who defeated Sauron at DG, why in the world would Gandalf go to Saruman (who was portrayed as shifty and distrust worthy) before Galadriel with knowledge of the Ring? If it was by the 'devices of Saruman' that Sauron was driven from DG (appendices), then Gandalf has good reason to go to him. Otherwise, Saruman would be the last one Gandalf would go to.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Feb 16 2016, 9:27pm
Post #6 of 13
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I don't believe this holds up when viewing her character in LOTR. At the end of Dul Guldor she is exhausted, much like she'd finished a marathon, but she had decades to recover and didn't appear 'weakened' in FOTR. Also, if she is the one who defeated Sauron at DG, why in the world would Gandalf go to Saruman (who was portrayed as shifty and distrust worthy) before Galadriel with knowledge of the Ring? If it was by the 'devices of Saruman' that Sauron was driven from DG (appendices), then Gandalf has good reason to go to him. Otherwise, Saruman would be the last one Gandalf would go to.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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LSF
Gondor
Feb 16 2016, 9:30pm
Post #7 of 13
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Saruman was shown as doubting and skeptical in Hobbit, not shifty and untrustworthy. Why wouldn't he go see Saruman for answers about Sauron and the Ring, especially since Saruman did go after Sauron after he was banished from DG?
With Galadriel, magic works in strange ways? All we see her do is freak out when Frodo offers her the ring, telepathically talk to Elrond, and mentally project herself into Frodo's mind to encourage him. I'm not seeing much in terms of "awesome" power from her that contradicts her former power levels being drained.
(This post was edited by LSF on Feb 16 2016, 9:34pm)
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Feb 16 2016, 9:44pm
Post #8 of 13
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I don't believe this holds up when viewing her character in LOTR. At the end of Dul Guldor she is exhausted, much like she'd finished a marathon, but she had decades to recover and didn't appear 'weakened' in FOTR. Watch the appendices and the commentarys on BOTFA, Philippa Boyens explains everything.
Also, if she is the one who defeated Sauron at DG, why in the world would Gandalf go to Saruman (who was portrayed as shifty and distrust worthy) before Galadriel with knowledge of the Ring? If it was by the 'devices of Saruman' that Sauron was driven from DG (appendices), then Gandalf has good reason to go to him. Otherwise, Saruman would be the last one Gandalf would go to. Because he is the head of Gandalf order, he is wise and powerful and he know what to do. Saruman is one of the first Gandalf would go to.
who was portrayed as shifty and distrust worthy I don't think so, Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond trust Saruman enough that they leave Sauron to him, and trust his words that with out the one ring Sauron have no power, witch is why Gandalf go to Saruman first.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Feb 16 2016, 11:05pm
Post #9 of 13
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I would have liked to have seen some of those "devices"
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Though I think JRRT would have meant definition 2-3 and not 1.
noun
1.
a thing made for a particular purpose; an invention or contrivance, especially a mechanical or electrical one.
2.
a plan or scheme for effecting a purpose.
3.
a crafty scheme; trick.
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Ringtir
Rivendell
Feb 16 2016, 11:05pm
Post #10 of 13
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To me, they went a little OTT with the almighty elf queen. I had cut this little segment from DG and it works perfect to me.
Gandalf goes to DG to investigate, but he knows that this is already a trap, so he send Radagast in search of the WC, but that's the original trap, Sauron wants to know where are the elven rings, that's why he keep Gandalf alive, and that's why he flee when he already know who are the bearers. And Elrond understand that Sauron has deceive them.
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squiggle
Rivendell
Feb 18 2016, 3:19am
Post #11 of 13
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Galadriel has an interesting parallel to Gandalf in a way
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For Galadriel loses alot of her direct personal power in forcing her will onto the shape of things. One way to view it, is that the Dol Guldur situation that had eventuated and developed in the Hobbit was due to the White Council's inadequacies.
It was essentially Gandalf's actions as perhaps the least prestigous of the White Council, that lead them to getting involved, and that essentially involved it between them and Sauron, if you will somewhat seperate from the rest of Middle Earth. That lead on to Galadriel tapping into her own fierce will & powers to dominate against the still vulnerable Sauron, and in a movie sense, shows a reasonably motivation for Saruman's actions in the LoTRs trilogy, he could understanably in his position be jealous of the power that Galadriel showed in BoTF, a somewhat forbidden power that saved them.
In terms of the six movies, when Gandalf becomes the white, with perhaps the exception of foresight, his direct powers are at their lowest ebb in the series, yet his agendas and aims are taking on a life of their own & he is near the end of completing his time in ME. So had a nice parallel in that way with Galadriel who after Dol Guldur can reject the ring & no longer desires what she once did in Middle Earth 
(This post was edited by squiggle on Feb 18 2016, 3:21am)
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MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien
Feb 18 2016, 4:37am
Post #12 of 13
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Actually Lorien is closer to the Shire than Isengard is
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It would require Gandalf crossing the Misty Mountains, but Radagast does that repeatedly with no problem, so Gandalf probably could too.
Although come to think of it, he could have just communed with her telepathically. We know she still has that power during LOTR.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 18 2016, 7:28am
Post #13 of 13
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Although come to think of it, he could have just communed with her telepathically. We know she still has that power during LOTR.
In the book, at least, we mainly see Gandalf and the Eldar communicating mind-to-mind only when they are gathered together. I'm not sure that the ability is supposed to have a great range. Of course, Peter Jackson might have treated it differently.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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