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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 9 2016, 6:38pm
Post #76 of 131
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So, I'd like to hear opinions about the castings I put up to start this thread.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 11 2016, 3:47am
Post #79 of 131
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Pretty good, particularly Amandil, Gil-galad and Sauron, though I'm not a fan of Beyonce.
What are your opinions on the casts I posted to start this thread?
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squire
Half-elven
Feb 11 2016, 12:56pm
Post #80 of 131
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Setting the tone, and a high one at that.
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Here is your Akallabeth:
Elendil: Michael Fassbender
Amandil: Jeremy Irons
Ar-Pharazon: Andrew Scott
Tar-Miriel: Felicity Jones
Isildur: Skander Keynes
Gil-galad: Daniel Radcliffe
Sauron: Adam Driver Jeremy Irons would be very good as Amandil, and ditto for Fassbender as Elendil. That kind of lead casting would (I think) set a tone for the entire Dunedain race as high-class British noble lords and/or schemers. That's a very defensible approach to this story, to be sure. But I'm not sure Daniel Radcliffe has the gravitas to do the High King of the Elves in such a framework - the straight version of Akallabeth, you might say, rather than the high camp approach I have been playing with.
If I remember, Adam Driver plays the new Darth Vader characer in the new Star Wars film. He was OK, but I wouldn't cast him as Sauron for the very reason that he's played Sauron already.
No disrespect intended, but I confess that if I don't recognize an actor's name from my own memory, I will just think "don't know him or her" and dismiss the casting idea, rather than look his career up. So sue me, I'm older (late 50s) and don't immiediately know who Andrew Scott, Felicity Jones, or Skander Keyes is.
squire online:
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 11 2016, 2:26pm
Post #81 of 131
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I'll just say where Scott, Jones and Keynes are from
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Scott played Jim Moriarty in Sherlock and Max Denbeigh in Spectre, Jones was in The Theory of Everything and Keynes played Edmund in The Chronicles of Narnia
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 11 2016, 5:19pm
Post #82 of 131
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You also had Benicio del Toro twice as Sauron.
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As far as disrespect is concerned, none taken.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 11 2016, 5:34pm)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 11 2016, 9:16pm
Post #84 of 131
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I was thinking Neal Purvis, Nico Lathouris or to write the screenplay. Purvis wrote the screenplay for Casino Royale (2006), while Lathouris, along with George Miller, wrote Mad Max: Fury Road. There's also Alex L. Smith, who wrote The Revenant, and David Self, who wrote Road to Perdition, as well as Michael Brandt, who wrote the remake of 3:10 to Yuma.
Del Toro has played similar roles as a right-hand man to a villain before, albeit without magical powers, like Dario in Licence to Kill (the knife-wielding guy who gave Della Leiter a nice honeymoon) and there are key differences between Kylo Ren and Sauron. Kylo Ren is greatly conflicted, while Sauron is not really conflicted. If Sauron is conflicted, we don't see it.
It could have been worse; my original choice months ago was Brett Dalton, best known as Agent Grant Ward on Marvel's Agents of Shield. Ward's character arc is similar to Sauron, he serves the main villain and becomes the leader of said villain's evil organization.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 11 2016, 9:27pm)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 11 2016, 9:40pm
Post #85 of 131
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If I had to narrow it down to two
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I'd pick Lathouris and Miller or Purvis.
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squire
Half-elven
Feb 11 2016, 10:01pm
Post #86 of 131
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Should a Silmarillion screenwriter have an expert knowledge of Tolkien's ideas and themes?
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Of course it's impossible to expect a first class screenwriter to be an expert in so arcane a subject; and it's twice as unlikely that a Real Fan (so to speak) would be qualified to write a big-budget screenplay.
Yet, in any adaptation, the writer must constantly pick what to leave in, what to leave out, what to compress, and what to invent. The more understanding he or she has of the meaning and purposes of the various elements of the original work, the more likely the adaptation choices will serve to enhance the adaptation and so 'capture' the original in a new medium.
A writer who assumes, for instance, that the Sil is just a fantasy adventure cycle, or that 'magic' can be used to explain whatever is needed to drive the plot, or that all genre films today - crime, westerns, sci fi, fantasy - must essentially follow the same cinematic conventions come hell or high water, is probably not going to do well with the insanely complex and mystical Silmarillion. Or at least not 'well' by my taste! The movie may be a massive hit due simply to witty writing, over the top special effects, and some good actors - Tolkien's intentions be damned.
Of course, the producer may hire a Tolkien-type 'story expert' and throw the professional writer and the Tolkien nut in the same room and see what comes out. But I suspect the ref in the ensuing disputes will be the producer, or perhaps the director if he or she is given control of the shooting script.
Who is more important here: the writer, the director, or the producer? And why do you want to see a Silmarillion movie cycle made in the first place? - that is, what kind of film do you hope they will produce? (As I've said, I don't think it can be done well as a 'straight' epic adaptation along the lines of Peter Jackson's works - preferring either a high camp approach or an off-the-wall low-budget 'arty' interpretation.)
squire online:
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Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 11 2016, 10:10pm
Post #87 of 131
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Why I would like to see a Tolkien film made
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My approach to making a film adaptation is influenced partially by Harry Potter and the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes tv series from the 1980s-1990s. I suggest that the Tolkien "story expert" act as a consultant, similar to how J.K. Rowling was in charge of approving or vetoing any changes the screenwriter decided to make, since J.R.R. Tolkien isn't around to approve changes himself. I'm not saying big-budget like Iron Man, I was thinking around $80 million to $100 million window, which is small potatoes in today's world.
My reasoning is that people want to see films, they don't want to read books anymore, just the Wikipedia page on said book. Making The Silmarillion into films would, hopefully, make this work more accessible to the public.
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squire
Half-elven
Feb 11 2016, 10:20pm
Post #88 of 131
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You make some very good points. I would only offer my own opinion that The Silmarillion was not written to be easily "accessible", and to make it so is almost inherently the wrong way to go. It's not like this was a best-seller for decades, the way LotR and The Hobbit have been. It's obscure, difficult to read, significantly lacking in dialogue and well-described incidents, incomplete, and maddeningly filled with some magical moments in between long stretches of unedited first draft material. We Tolkien fans might want to see it filmed, but I don't believe there is a large demand for it.
Now, to say there is a demand for "more Tolkien films" among the hundreds of millions who have liked the Jackson films is probably true. But, again, I don't think The Sil (or even it's most carefully re-assembled sub-story, The Children of Hurin) could satisfy that demand unless so many changes and cuts were made that one could scarcely call the result an adaptation.
Not that it hasn't been fun playing these games here on TORn!
squire online:
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Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 12 2016, 12:02am
Post #89 of 131
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That's why I've suggested having a Tolkien expert on hand to make sure it's done right
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The Silmarillion is something I would personally like to be seen on the silver screen. I've been a fan of screen adaptations and seen when they're done right. It doesn't feel right only making part of the saga.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 12 2016, 2:54am
Post #90 of 131
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A studio can hire an expert consultant, but that doesn't guarantee that he won't be ignored.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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No One in Particular
Lorien
Feb 12 2016, 4:40am
Post #92 of 131
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At the end of the day, the directors will do what they think will sell the film to the public. If that means ignoring the consultant and arming their medieval knight with a jet pack and hand grenades, that's what they'll do.
While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 12 2016, 5:09am
Post #93 of 131
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Knights with jet packs aren't really a box office draw though, are they?
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Public probably wouldn't like it either.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 12 2016, 5:12am)
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No One in Particular
Lorien
Feb 12 2016, 5:11am
Post #94 of 131
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But that's kinda the point. They'll do what they *think* will sell the movie, in spite of what the experts might tell them. Whether it will actually sell the movie or not...
While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 12 2016, 5:18am
Post #95 of 131
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Unfortunately, yes. It's called Executive Meddling.
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Perhaps cut a deal with more say for the Tolkien expert who approves all the changes in exchange for a smaller budget.
On the other hand, I did start this thread considering casting options for a film version of The Silmarillion and opinions on said castings. I'd like to go back to that.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 12 2016, 5:24am)
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squire
Half-elven
Feb 12 2016, 6:13pm
Post #96 of 131
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Casting is hard when you don't what the movie wants to be
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I think what happened recently on this thread (which has been fairly lively, all things considered) is that we discovered there is no consensus here about "what kind" of Silmarillion film we're all talking about. A casting choice for Beren, or Feanor, or Turin depends very largely on the vision for the film, its audience, and its understanding of what Tolkien's book is.
Thus the turn away from lists of actors, and towards a wider view of the problem involving directors, screenwriters, and producers.
But with the caveat that not everyone here is on the same page, so to speak, if you'd like to "go back" to considering casting options for a film version of The Sil, please do.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 12 2016, 6:18pm
Post #97 of 131
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I wasn't looking for a consensus, I was looking for opinions via who you would cast if you (the poster) were making The Silmarillion.
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I had started this thread as simply a place for opinions on who people would want to be seen in a film of The Silmarillion. Considering director, screenwriters and composers was also part of this "casting" thread.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 12 2016, 6:25pm)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 12 2016, 9:41pm
Post #98 of 131
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It was primarily an effort to see who people would cast in the roles of The Silmarillion, nothing more, as well as the directors, writers and music composers.
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I just gave who I thought would play the roles well and wanted to see who other people would say were right for the roles. The first time I tried a thread like this someone put up a casting involving the Muppets.
So I invite people to post actors they think can do The Silmarillion.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 12 2016, 9:45pm)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 13 2016, 12:08am
Post #99 of 131
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Who would you guys want to see in a film of The Silmarillion? I have some examples, but I'd like to hear your opinions.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 13 2016, 4:18am
Post #100 of 131
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Part of this game was thinking about who would work in these roles and why. For example, I had Liam Hemsworth as Turin because his work as Gale Hawthorne had him playing a similar character to Turin, with a missing father, anger just beneath the surface, and becoming more ruthless as time went on (just ask Prim). I was confident he could play the role.
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