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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Dori's Role

MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien

Feb 6 2016, 11:07pm

Post #1 of 12 (791 views)
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Dori's Role Can't Post

Dori is one of my favorite Dwarves in the Company, in both the book and film. But it's strange to me that he has such a minor role in the films when he's one of the more prominent Dwarves in the book. He actually has a rapport with Bilbo and has to save him on several occasions, complaining all the while. Dori even has more lines in the book than any Dwarves besides Thorin, Balin, and Bombur. It's a shame that he was backgrounded in the films, when there was actually source material to work with (which there wasn't for most of the Dwarves).

Any speculation as to why he was made into one of the background Dwarves in the film? Would you have liked to see him looking after Bilbo more?


ange1e4e5
Gondor

Feb 6 2016, 11:16pm

Post #2 of 12 (754 views)
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On Dori [In reply to] Can't Post

I think this is due to expanding on Bilbo by making him less helpless, viewers wouldn't like a protagonist who has to be walked all over the place and carried like a child. His personality was changed too, I think by giving the dwarves distinct personalities; Dwalin was probably already planned to be the strong guy, they likely needed to have someone who was fussy and a bit of a dandy, and that fell to Dori, unfortunately.


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Feb 7 2016, 12:12am

Post #3 of 12 (732 views)
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Dori [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think he is one of the background dwarves in the first two films ( I agree that he is in TBOFA). Except for the main dwarves ( Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, Fili and Kili), and Bofur he has the most lines in AUJ and DOS. He is much in focus in Bag End, and in Rivendel, and we also have, he and Ori holding on Gandalf's staff, how many times he said Mr Gandalf, Bilbo seeing himself in Dori, the list goes on and on. So no I don't think Dori is an background Dwarf in the first two films.

I don't think having Dori in Goblintown carrying Bilbo would work, it would looked really strange and not in a good whay ( but we did get a reference to it when Gloin said "I thought he was with Dori" and Dori reply "Don't blame me!" after Goblintown). And after Bilbo saved Thorin he don't need to be saved any more.


Milieuterrien
Rohan

Feb 7 2016, 12:16am

Post #4 of 12 (726 views)
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Yes, there wasn't much room for a chaperon to Bilbo [In reply to] Can't Post

Dori's role as such is not very expanded in the book : he carries Bilbo in Goblin tunnels, and maybe in the trees above the wargs (if I remember correctly), but nothing much else.

In the Book Bilbo loses his grip and falls unconscious in the depths of Goblintown and is far at this moment to reveal himself adult and courageous.

But considering he has to handle Gollum next, he oughts to show himself more autonomous than child-like, otherwise he would certainly have been just terrified by that creature, which would certainly reveal fatal for him, since Gollum was the creepy guy he became in the 'advanced' versions of the Book. A childish Bilbo could only handle the 'gentle' Gollum of the earliest version.

That's mostly why, in my opinion, the 'chaperon dwarf' did have to disappear from the movie version.

Plus, if Bilbo had a chaperon, he would have prevented him to establish personal links with Thorin. That's Thorin who save his life during the Mountain Giants episode when Bilbo loses the grip. So, Thorin was "Bilbo's Dori" for that event.


(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Feb 7 2016, 12:19am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 7 2016, 1:39am

Post #5 of 12 (705 views)
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Yeah... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bofur pretty much took over Dori's role in the story. But given the charisma that James Nesbitt brought to the part, I can't really resent it.

"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."


- Dream of the Endless


Milieuterrien
Rohan

Feb 7 2016, 2:09am

Post #6 of 12 (693 views)
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Lots of people loved Bofur [In reply to] Can't Post

I personally would have liked to get more of Balin, Gloin, Oin, Bifur and Dori, and other dwarves like them. They were very convincing for me and I would have felt more emotionally attached to the story.


Ilmatar
Rohan


Feb 8 2016, 5:51pm

Post #7 of 12 (569 views)
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On Dori being fussy... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure if they specifically needed someone to be fussy or a dandy, because I was reading the first WETA Chronicles book (AUJ, Art & Design) a while ago and it sounds like it just happened that way - especially knowing that PJ allowed the actors to have some influence on their characters. Here is a quote from the book:


Quote

Sometimes a design really helps cement a character and in the
case of Dori I think this really happened. I think Dori's final beard
design concept perhaps helped Mark [Hadlow] discover the character
because, when he saw this, Dori suddenly became a very fussy
person with a wonderful northern accent. It's a very fussy hair do and
beard that obviously take him a lot of time and energy to arrange. It's
not necessarily practical, but it's great and says a lot about the character
in a glance.

Peter King, Make-up and Hair Designer


The original casting calls for the dwarves were available in the 'net at some point, or maybe they still are but I could not find them. If someone has a link it might be interesting to see what features or qualities were described in the casting calls before any actors had been cast.

I like Dori and would have wanted to see more of him (then again, I would have wanted to see more of all the dwarves...).



(http://thorinoakenshield.net)


(This post was edited by Ilmatar on Feb 8 2016, 5:54pm)


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Feb 8 2016, 6:08pm

Post #8 of 12 (564 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The original casting calls for the dwarves were available in the 'net at some point, or maybe they still are but I could not find them. If someone has a link it might be interesting to see what features or qualities were described in the casting calls before any actors had been cast.

Well all the actors who was auditioning for one of the 13 dwarfs ( except Thorin and Balin) was auditioning for Gloin. You can watch that on the appendices part 8 in AUJ.


dormouse
Half-elven


Feb 9 2016, 10:04am

Post #9 of 12 (509 views)
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Just the way it worked out, I think.... [In reply to] Can't Post

As someone has already pointed out, the supporting dwarves did the same audition and their individual characters were developed to suit the individual actors. (Having them all audition for the same part was a very smart way of letting their individuality show through, as each one would put his own take on it.)

Mark Hadlow's Dori was too busy fussing over Ori to do the sort of things Dori does in the book. In a way, they've given that role to Dwalin (as the strongest dwarf) though they've also changed the role to make the strongest dwarf in the film Thorin's right-hand. So, for example, when Bilbo falls off the mountain pass it's Thorin who jumps down to save him - highlighting Thorin as leader - and Dwalin (the strongest) who saves Thorin.

Another reason, I think, is their decision to design and characterise the dwarves in their family groups. Looking at the actors, Graham Mctavish was always going to be the strongest. If they'd cast him as Dori (beause Dori is the strongest) and Mark Hadlow as Dwalin it would have broken up those character groupings. Instead of the brothers Balin and Dwalin being Thorin's counsellor and warrior you'd have had the counsellor and a fussy one (with no one particular to fuss over).

I think Mark Hadlow's Dori plays the right role for him - and I like the relationship they've created between Thorin and Dwalin, so no, with this casting I think the dwarves are just fine as they are.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Thorinshield
Registered User

Feb 9 2016, 5:27pm

Post #10 of 12 (486 views)
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Bofur [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd agree that PJ and the casting team needed to be careful who they cast as the Dwarves.

Graham McTavish in my opinion would not be able to play the role of Bofur, as his natural presence and demeanor would prevent him from portraying the caring and considerate nature that Bofur provides. However, it is a quality that James Nesbitt brings to the role and is so effectively seen during AUJ when Bilbo gets up to leave in the middle of the night before they all fall in to Moria.


LSF
Gondor

Feb 9 2016, 5:38pm

Post #11 of 12 (481 views)
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mostly casting, I think [In reply to] Can't Post

Considering that for most of the dwarves, what PJ and co were looking for was actors who could bring themselves into the role and have a lot of influence over the character personality. Then some dwarves needed to do specific things, like they needed someone other than Balin to get close to Bilbo, and Bofur just seemed the natural choice for that, probably based on the personality that James Nesbitt brought to Bofur. Dori being more sidelined is just how it worked out.

I haven't read the book, but from what it sounds like, I don't think I would want that kind of "chaperone" for Bilbo, since it would make him seem more like a child than a capable adult. I think the amount of "looking after" they had Bofur do with Bilbo was a good amount.


Ilmatar
Rohan


Feb 10 2016, 10:04pm

Post #12 of 12 (444 views)
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Thank you [In reply to] Can't Post

I have not watched most of the Appendices yet (or only once and it's been a while), so it will be interesting to see those auditions.

But I would still like to see the written casting calls as well Smile - if only to compare how the original descriptions may differ from the characters that ended up on film - if anyone happens to have a link.

 
 

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