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squire
Half-elven
Feb 5 2016, 8:56pm
Post #51 of 131
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The fun thing about this kind of game
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Is that I get to assume my dream Silmarillion film or films will be good, not bad. For instance, when I say High Camp, I mean that the writing is straight from the book, as is the direction, the music, etc. It's the incongruity of my excellent actors appearing out of type that I expect to give the film its kick. Although I am also very open to a modern-dress concept for CoH, and maybe B&L - same dialogue and themes, same plot, same characters and names, only not in the quasi-medieval mud pit and not with the long robes and dresses. It's tricky but it can be fantastic when done well: see RSC's 'Richard III' film (based on the play with the same concept) set in a fascist 1920s England.
squire online: RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'. Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!" squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Feb 5 2016, 9:47pm
Post #52 of 131
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That was just another example of a badly written campy action movie. //
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Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 6 2016, 2:17am
Post #53 of 131
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Sorry, I think I've confused camp with parody.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 6 2016, 2:49pm
Post #54 of 131
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What type of film should The Silmarillion be? And would Christopher Tolkien support an adaptation?
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 6 2016, 2:59pm
Post #55 of 131
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Akallabeth: The Downfall of Numenor Elendil: Michael Fassbender Amandil: Jeremy Irons Ar-Pharazon: Andrew Scott Tar-Miriel: Felicity Jones Isildur: Skander Keynes Gil-galad: Daniel Radcliffe Sauron: Adam Driver
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 6 2016, 3:34pm
Post #56 of 131
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Maybe not Andrew Scott as Ar-Pharazon, perhaps Guy Pearce?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 6 2016, 9:31pm
Post #58 of 131
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The SIlmarillion and Christopher Tolkien
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What type of film should The Silmarillion be? And would Christopher Tolkien support an adaptation? Well, more than one film, definitely. And the narrative lines need to be strengthened and enhanced so that it is broken down into a series of strong stories with interesting and compelling lead characters. Based on past knowledge of Christopher Tolkien's opinions on film adaptations of his father's works, I have to say that, no, neither he, nor the entity known as the Tolkien Estate would support such an effort.
"Things need not to have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." - Dream of the Endless
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 6 2016, 9:42pm
Post #59 of 131
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As far as making the films, I think five films. 1. The Fall of the Noldor and the first 400 years of the War of the Jewels 2. Beren and Luthien 3. The Children of Hurin 4. The Fall of Gondolin 5. The end of the First Age, including the voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath Bonus: Akallabeth In particular, I would like to see 2, 3 and 4 made into films, since Tolkien intended those as his "Great Tales." My original thought was seven films, with the beginning of days a separate film by itself. I think it's unfortunate that Christopher Tolkien does not support the films. More people watch films than read books nowadays and to get most people interested in reading books, films must be made, unfortunately.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 6 2016, 9:44pm)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 6 2016, 10:51pm
Post #60 of 131
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Suggestions for Aragorn prequel
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Gary Oldman: A Black Numenorean leader Corsair Captain: Antonio Banderas Corsair Second in command: Oscar Isaac An Easterling leader: Faran Tahir A Haradrim Leader: Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje Young Haradrim Lords: Alfred Enoch and John Boyega
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 6 2016, 10:54pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 6 2016, 10:59pm
Post #61 of 131
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Now you just need a casting call list such as this one: http://www.movies.spoilertv.com/...it-casting-call.html Examples:
[ITARIL] FEMALE, A WOODLAND ELF, this character is one the Silvan Elves. The Silvan Elves are seen as more earthy and practical. Shorter than other elves, she is still quick and lithe and physically adept, being able to fight with both sword and bow. Showing promise as a fighter at a young age, ITARIL was chosen to train to become part of the Woodland King’s Guard. This is the only life she has ever expected to live, until she meets and secretly falls in love with a young ELF LORD. This role will require a wig and contact lenses to be worn. Some prosthetic make-up may also be required. LEAD. AGE: 17-27. ACCENT – STANDARD R.P. [ELF WARRIOR] An ELF-LORD of RIVENDELL. Tall and good-looking, he is very athletic and comes from a noble family. Wry and dry, with a sharp sense of humour, when forced into battle however, he is deadly with both sword and bow. Like all his race, he is a master horseman. This role will require a wig and contact lenses to be worn. Some prosthetic make-up may be required. LEAD. AGE: 20-30. ACCENT - STANDARD R.P. [PRIMULA BRANDYBUCK] Primula is a bright, lively and pretty young Hobbit. She is considered to be ‘wayward’ and ‘not proper’. But PRIMULA doesn’t care. - Prone to letting words and thoughts tumble out of her mouth without pause, PRIMULA can also be acutely observant. Kind hearted with a loving nature, she is the type of person who can light up a room sptv050769. LEAD. AGE: 18-27 STANDARD R.P. OR SLIGHTLY ACCENTED REGIONAL ENGLISH ACCENT. [DROGO] Bilbo’s cousin, he has known Bilbo all his life and ends up becoming Frodo's father. Drogo's outgoing, friendly - likes his food and good ale and the companionship of others.. He is good looking, well liked and well known around The Shire and is a bit of a ladies man (in contrast to Bilbo.) He's not interested in the outside world. In fact, he's quite happy and content with his lot. He is naturally funny in that unintentional, Hobbity, English Village sort of way - someone who is immediately likable. LEAD. AGE: 25-35. ACCENT – STANDARD R.P. OR REGIONAL ENGLISH ACCENT (SHOULD NOT BE HEAVILY ACCENTED). [ALFRID] A civil servant, devoted to the MAYOR largely out of self-interest. He is of indeterminate age - could be young, could be old. Despite being subservient he has his own agenda. Although he will take calculated risks - he is not a brave man. LEAD. AGE: 30-70. ACCENT – STANDARD R.P. OR SLIGHTLY ACCENTED REGIONAL ENGLISH ACCENT. What I find interesting is that PRIMULA and DROGO seem to be intended for the bridge film as they would be older than would be indicated by Tolkien's text if they appeared during the timeframe of The Hobbit. ITARIL is obviously a first pass at the character who would become TAURIEL.
"Things need not to have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." - Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 6 2016, 11:02pm)
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squire
Half-elven
Feb 6 2016, 11:13pm
Post #62 of 131
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I don't think the problem is a lack of strong stories or characters.
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That's exactly what Tolkien provides us. What makes any effort to film the Silmarillion cycle into an exercise in fan-fiction, is that the stories lack sufficient dialogue and episodic detail. The screenwriters will have to make up overwhelming percentages of both. The odds of their doing it in ways that faithfully capture Tolkien's vision seem very small to me. His archaisms are central to his purpose and do, when performed on camera, risk a rapid descent into camp or parody. And yes, there's no way in heck that C. Tolkien or his designated successors will agree to anyone making the effort. I tend to agree with him - I don't see the Sil as suitable for film on a mass-market basis. As art films, low-budget and high concept, some of the stories might interest me. But, with the success of the Jackson films, mass-market is the only way any producer would now approach the project.
squire online: RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'. Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!" squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
(This post was edited by squire on Feb 6 2016, 11:28pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 6 2016, 11:32pm
Post #63 of 131
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That's exactly what Tolkien provides us. What makes any effort to film the Silmarillion cycle into an exercise in fan-fiction, is that the stories lack sufficient dialogue and episodic detail. That is pretty much what I meant, although I did not go into detail.
"Things need not to have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." - Dream of the Endless
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 7 2016, 12:16am
Post #64 of 131
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Silmarillion as independent films
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the trouble with art films is being able to bring to life Tolkien's world of angels, demons and monsters; one would need extensive CGI or extensive practical effects to bring this world to life. I've suggested having The Silmarillion made with less money; say no more than $100 million each, which is small potatoes in today's market for a major franchise and more practical effects (and Pirates of the Caribbean was made with $140 million for the first film); each of the Lord of the Rings films were made with less than $95 individually. Speaking of filmmakers that shouldn't direct this film: Michael Bay. It'll be Baylam.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 7 2016, 12:20am)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 7 2016, 2:16am
Post #66 of 131
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The Lord of the Rings films were each made for less than $95 million each. But not having a description for some of these inhabitants of Tolkien's world is a double-edged sword; a filmmaker may say " we've got carte Blanche" or "we've got nothing to work with." You're going to have to have some special effects, I.e. Practical effects, to bring this world to life. How, say, would you bring a fire-breathing dragon or a towering demon to life, display an army 10,000 strong or even a Dark Lord 20 feet high? You'd need a handsome budget, say $80 million, to make one film alone, for the extras and stuntmen. A large studio would be necessary to distribute the film, so there are some things that you can't live without.
(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 7 2016, 2:24am)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 8 2016, 6:41pm
Post #67 of 131
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The point was that such special effects, i.e. practical effects and CGI are necessary to make a film series like The Silmarillion work.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Feb 8 2016, 7:06pm
Post #68 of 131
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Watch the films Detour (1945) or Dogville (2003) where sets were virtually (and purposefully) non-existent, or read reviews of Bernard Pomerance’s 1979 play The Elephant Man where the actor (such as David Schofield, David Bowie, and Mark Hamill), played the hideously misshapen title role without prothetics. Sometime less is more, and nothing is as good as the audience's imagination.
****************************************** Fimbrethil, Warrior Entwife Sez: "Why don't we terraform Earth? It's closer."
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 8 2016, 7:12pm
Post #69 of 131
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Those are different genres, however; film noir and drama.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 8 2016, 8:05pm
Post #70 of 131
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Curunir: Ed Skrein Gandalf: James McAvoy (He's been vocal about wanting the part) Radagast: Jonas Armstrong I'll make changes to my Akallabeth casting as well. Elendil: Tom Hardy Ar-Pharazon: Michael Fassbender
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Darkstone
Immortal
Feb 8 2016, 8:15pm
Post #71 of 131
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Olorin: Steve Martin Curumo: Chevy Chase Aiwendil: Martin Short Alatar: Shawn Wayans Pallando: Marlon Wayans (Though my dream casting would be, respectively, Groucho, Chico, Harpo, Zeppo, and Gummo.)
****************************************** Fimbrethil, Warrior Entwife Sez: "Why don't we terraform Earth? It's closer."
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Darkstone
Immortal
Feb 8 2016, 8:57pm
Post #72 of 131
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...dramatic film noir?
****************************************** Fimbrethil, Warrior Entwife Sez: "Why don't we terraform Earth? It's closer."
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 8 2016, 9:03pm
Post #73 of 131
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No, I don't consider them noir.
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Noir I typically think of as mysteries, i.e. Chinatown, The Usual Suspects, or L.A. Confidential.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 9 2016, 3:07am
Post #74 of 131
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I just got another idea for a director: Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu, the director of The Revenant.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 9 2016, 5:27pm
Post #75 of 131
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I've also thought of camp and parody as pandering to a younger audience. The actors I had in mind are younger, but the film would be more serious in nature.
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