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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Feb 7 2016, 2:46am
Post #51 of 67
(613 views)
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No use to continue this discussion here.
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Feb 7 2016, 8:06am
Post #52 of 67
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Yes, there is. For one thing, it is still the Greenwood on Thráin's map. And it is news to the White Council when Gandalf reveals that the Greenwood is now being called Mirkwood. And Radagast lives in the Forest and only finds out about the corruption at the start of AUJ.
They didn't. Gandalf investigated Mirkwood and Dol Guldur several times, eventually learning that the Necromancer was in fact Sauron and taking his findings to the White Council. This was ninety years before the Quest of Erebor. I think this was a good thing that they changed it. Now we can follow Gandalf descovering Dol Guldur and the Necromancer from the beginning to the end without having most of it in flashbacks, it also makes it more of a real storyline.
We can debate about how huge the giants should have been, but they did not need to be literally made of stone. They are could stone giants so of course they made out of stone. That is how I picture it and probably PJ to. How would you like them to be made of?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 7 2016, 8:19am
Post #53 of 67
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I have never imagined the giants as anything other than flesh-and-blood. Other than their name there is nothing at all to suggest that they are actually made of stone; and I attribute that to the fact that they live in the mountains and make a sport of hurling boulders.
Yes, cinematically we can justify the alteration of Gandalf discovering the truth about the Necromancer within the timeframe of Thorin's quest. That also makes the death of Thráin more immediate for the audience, although it did add a wrinkle to the matter of Gandalf acquiring the map and key to the Secret Door. That still does not necessitate the other changes involving Mirkwood and the Nine. But this thread is supposed to be about how Tolkien might have reacted to Peter Jackson's Hobbit, not how I or anyone else feels about them.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 7 2016, 8:22am)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Feb 7 2016, 2:45pm
Post #54 of 67
(554 views)
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... and wouldn't it have been interesting if JRRT had been around and he had accepted the position if offered? But that really is a huge might-have-been.
I was watching the films again last night and it struck me that there is one aspect of them that I think Tolkien would - could not help - have been excited by, and that's Smaug. We take all the special effects wizardry so much for granted now, but the boy who 'desired dragons with a profound desire' didn't live to see anything more realistic than a two-dimensional cartoon. How magical would it have been for him to see his real live dragon on screen, talking and flying and breathing fire? And how much fun would he have had if he'd actually been involved with the design process, debating the relative merits of four limbs, six limbs, scales and so on. As an artist himself I doubt if he could have resisted that.
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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geordie
Tol Eressea
Feb 7 2016, 6:47pm
Post #55 of 67
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Christopher's sons are called Simon and Adam
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- neither appeared in LotR. That was Tolkien's great-grandson Royd.
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geordie
Tol Eressea
Feb 7 2016, 6:50pm
Post #56 of 67
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- the Appendices were included in the first printing of RotK. The Index was not published till the 2nd edition.
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geordie
Tol Eressea
Feb 7 2016, 6:58pm
Post #57 of 67
(524 views)
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- or possibly not -  - Tolkien did suggest some titles for the individual books. And there have been three 7-volume sets published (ie six books plus Appendices) -
http://www.tolkienbooks.net/php/gallery.php?subsection=78
(This post was edited by geordie on Feb 7 2016, 6:59pm)
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geordie
Tol Eressea
Feb 7 2016, 7:10pm
Post #58 of 67
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As a further matter of interest -
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- or again, possibly not - I can't get my head around the idea of men putting the Nazgul into tombs. The Nazgul aren't dead! And I expect they'd kick up a heck of a fuss if some tulip tried to shove them into a hole!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 7 2016, 7:14pm
Post #59 of 67
(510 views)
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All the better.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 7 2016, 7:20pm
Post #60 of 67
(507 views)
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I knew about the titles; they just weren't relevant to any point I was after. I did not know about any six or seven volume collections for The Lord of the Rings. Or if I had then the information didn't stick.
The Nazgûl could be classed as undead although they never really died in the normal sense. But Peter Jackson either didn't fully understand this or presumed that they were somehow immobilized so they might as well have been killed.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 7 2016, 7:26pm)
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Feb 8 2016, 12:05am
Post #61 of 67
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I don't think he would necessarily have minded an adaption and some editing. He was constantly editing his own work after all.
Erm, I don't think Tolkien would have liked the romance part at all. If not turning in his grave, laughing his celestial soaks of, or simply turning his face away from the screen when it was on. I think the problem here is Elf/Dwarf. Now in extreme circumstances when the fate of arda is an issue, elf/human is allowed, but not Elf/Dwarf. In fact he might want to know what mind thought up,that rather perverse idea. Come to think of it, so would I! I'm afraid young Dwarves minds would be on their crafts, not Elven ladies! If he puts his hand on anything, it should be his hammer. Mind, I suppose if you make them young and sexy this is always a possibility. Makes you realise why they were in decline as a species.
You know, I have a sneaking suspicion he would have liked BOFA! He was not objector to large battles in his works, look at the Silmarillin, for example.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Feb 8 2016, 9:53am
Post #62 of 67
(482 views)
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Wasn't it Tolkien who gave us Gimli's courtly devotion to Galadriel? Platonic, of course, but dwarf... elf....
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 8 2016, 3:14pm
Post #63 of 67
(463 views)
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This is why Gimli accompanies Legolas to Valinor.
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TaliaEmerald
Bree
Feb 10 2016, 1:30am
Post #64 of 67
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Yes, I think he would like them
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To be honest and after listening to what Peter and much of his wonderful team and others who have written books about Middle-earth, and Professor Tolkien. I do think J.R.R. Tolkien would like the films Peter has made. And this is my honest opinion, it's not just because I LOVE the films (which I do... ) but because I genuinely think he would. One author who has written about Tolkien said that "The Lord of the Rings (and the Hobbit) is a modern myth, and as myths go down in history they are changed and adapted to fit the age, and that is what Peter Jackson has done." Those aren't the exact words but they're pretty close.
But let's face it...if it wasn't for Peter...we wouldn't have this amazing door into Middle-earth.
Elven Lady of the Greenwood Realm
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 10 2016, 3:33am
Post #65 of 67
(416 views)
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At the very least I think that Tolkien might have been surprised at what Peter Jackson and his team managed to accomplish since the art of filmmaking was not nearly as advanced even by the time of his death.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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Elessar
Valinor
Feb 10 2016, 2:49pm
Post #66 of 67
(393 views)
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I think he'd like some and not like some
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Feb 11 2016, 12:43am
Post #67 of 67
(377 views)
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And as that love was totally ignored in the Lotr movies, nice to see it given a nod to here!
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