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Keebler the Elf
Rivendell
Apr 17 2008, 3:13pm
Post #1 of 21
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100 Ithilien Rangers and 100 Gondor Soldiers w/spears vs. 200 Roman Legionaires (100 with bows)
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Ok, so the same lineup as before, archers behind soldiers, the soldiers charge as archers fire. Who wins this one?
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SmeagoloftheStoors
Lorien
Apr 18 2008, 1:24am
Post #2 of 21
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The Roman legion had this srange marching formation they did called the "turtle" or "Tortoise" or something like that. Anyway what they did, was take their tower shields and interlock them across the front and sides and over their heads ( http://www.roman-empire.net/army/testudo.html ) the pic doesn't show all of the variations od this whereas some acounts say that the romans had their pilums through the cracks so that they could keep the enemy back a bit. This would negate the effectivness of the Rangers arrows. Then the Roman archers (not technicaly Legionaries), would thin the ranks of the Gondorians, the Romans would open up the ranks after the Gondorians were so close that the archers would have to stop, and bingo, bango, the melee begings and the supirior numbers take effect. Also I would like to point out that all though the Rangers would probably mobilize to reenforce their Gondorian allies, they would have to make it through a hail of arrows from the romans unarmored. Also the roman stratagies would probably overtake the likely flat-wall charge from the Gondorians. ( http://numbera.com/...trategy/legform.aspx )
Eglario Valar!
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Keebler the Elf
Rivendell
Apr 19 2008, 2:34pm
Post #3 of 21
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I forgot to specify that the Roman archers are MERCS. Mercenaries. Anyway, if we substitute back in the Citadel Guards, then I think the Gondorians win. But the regular soldiers, nah. And we're talking book Guards, not movie Guards.
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SmeagoloftheStoors
Lorien
Apr 19 2008, 6:49pm
Post #4 of 21
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It realy doesn't matter weither the archers are Roman or not, combat archers all basicly serve the same function. You don't actually aim when your in the ranks, you mass together and rain arrows down on the enemy. I assume that the Legion in question is the typical movie Legion in the lorica segmentata, in such case the archs of that perion wore the lorica hamata (chain maile) as would mecenary troups of that era.
Eglario Valar!
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Keebler the Elf
Rivendell
Apr 21 2008, 3:12pm
Post #5 of 21
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But the Gondorians are moving. Aren't moving targets a lot harder than stationary targets? Surely archers aren't just there to aim in the air. Archers are archers, and well trained archers should be able to hit a moving target with ease, but not by shooting up towards the sky.
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SmeagoloftheStoors
Lorien
Apr 21 2008, 8:20pm
Post #6 of 21
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Combat archery is a lot different than standard archery. Out side of the normal imparctical nature of having 100 good shots in one group, there are other factors. Such factors include the confusion of war; imagine if you will how hard it would be for the archers to pick their target. You know that you would end up having several people shooting one person. Then there are the formations, you'd have to have one long line in order for the archers to be effective if they were aiming every shot. The aiming alone would slow down the rate of fire (since we are talking about European archery tactics). Good examples of combat archery can be seen in shuch movies as; Gladiator (the opening battle), LotRTT (Helms Deep [the elves shooting over the wall]), and I think there are some instances in Braveheart (a good movie but I laugh about the historical accuracy in some points).
Eglario Valar!
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Keebler the Elf
Rivendell
Apr 22 2008, 4:10pm
Post #7 of 21
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But.....that's what I was trying to say. I don't think that one guy shooting at another is going to kill him. I think several shots are required to shoot moving enemy soldiers, when the archers are behind the first rank of their own soldiers. But I don't think it'd be too hard to kill them if the archers had skill. They wouldn't just shoot randomly into the air to try and hit something. They'd still be able to see their targets, and they would have to arch their shots a bit, but still, the more skill, the better chance of hitting something. Right?
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SmeagoloftheStoors
Lorien
Apr 22 2008, 6:53pm
Post #8 of 21
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The skill involved with combat archery is judging distances, allowance for the wind, and firing shots quickly. You're aiming at massed groups, not individual targets. A rainstorm of arrows in a large group= hits if not kills (you don't have to kill with the arrows at first, between trampling and trying to fight wounded either way the odds are bad). There is specialized training involved, but when it gets right down to it, anyone can be a combat archer. I do know that if certain people read this I'll be a target at my next event, but that's my opinion. Skill will help as far as the combat is concerned, but Romans only hired mercenaries when they felt they needed expendible troops or if they felt the merenaries had more skill than their own specialized troops. In other words, they only hired GREAT archers or professional arrow catchers Again I recomend you watch some of the movies I mentioned. I almost frogot the Kingdom of Heaven, the archery in that is for wall defence, but it's interesting none the less.
Eglario Valar!
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numenor888
The Shire
May 7 2008, 2:01am
Post #9 of 21
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i think it will be close
but u forget that this r ithillen ranger not ur average archer so they have the skill to d indiviual shots
and u forgot that they r also sword fighters
The risky Ranger
Numenor
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SmeagoloftheStoors
Lorien
May 7 2008, 3:29pm
Post #10 of 21
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carry some type of melee weapon, otherwise they would be usless after lines were over run. It would be close, but I think that the archers would cancle eachother out since the ones with the Romans are mecinaries and therefore more skilled than the standard Roman archers. It's also not really a skill thing with the individual shots, (although I chuckle at the thought of 2 archers on the battlements of a castle taking bets on who can drop the general), it's a matter of tactics. The meshing of fire increases the dammage when we're talking about these numbers.
Eglario Valar!
(This post was edited by SmeagoloftheStoors on May 7 2008, 3:36pm)
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numenor888
The Shire
May 12 2008, 9:41pm
Post #11 of 21
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well its a tie i say no1 is left alive
The risky Ranger
Numenor
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SmeagoloftheStoors
Lorien
May 12 2008, 9:45pm
Post #12 of 21
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Alright then, we'll call it a draw. Come, Patsy! (NT)
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Eglario Valar!
It's me!
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numenor888
The Shire
May 13 2008, 9:03pm
Post #13 of 21
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i win
The risky Ranger
Numenor
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SmeagoloftheStoors
Lorien
May 13 2008, 9:13pm
Post #14 of 21
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because I'm content with everyone dying. That just sounds wrong coming from a minister.
Eglario Valar!
It's me!
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numenor888
The Shire
May 14 2008, 9:54pm
Post #15 of 21
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im still alive idjit so i win
The risky Ranger
Numenor
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SmeagoloftheStoors
Lorien
May 15 2008, 8:22pm
Post #16 of 21
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boredom. I don't really think I need to explain that I was in reference to everyone dying in the hypothetical situation presented here.
Eglario Valar!
It's me!
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numenor888
The Shire
May 19 2008, 9:59pm
Post #17 of 21
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The risky Ranger
Numenor
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SmeagoloftheStoors
Lorien
May 20 2008, 12:56am
Post #18 of 21
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I've never seen a diagonal line this long in one thread. (NT)
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Eglario Valar!
It's me!
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Gondorian_Ranger
Rivendell
Jul 15 2008, 6:42am
Post #19 of 21
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The answer's in the name, my friends.
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"The city of Osgiliath has been reclaimed, FOR GONDOR!"
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numenor888
The Shire
Sep 2 2008, 9:06pm
Post #20 of 21
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hey
The risky Ranger
Numenor
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