|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DainPig
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 9:04pm
Post #1 of 15
(1060 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Eagles and carrock (2 film structure)
|
Can't Post
|
|
In the 2 film project this act was going to be waay different, that's my thinking.
Because...
-No "Why did you come back"
-No Thorin and Azog confrontation. At least not so epic.
-No Bilbo saving Thorin
-No dwarves attacking the wargs
-No epic eagles arrive. We are at the middle of the movie (1st movie of a duology) and this scene does not need to be like a third act.
-No injuried Thorin and no "everyone worried about him"
-No hugs and no thrush
Gandalf would explain why the eagles can not take them any longer (nice scene) and the company go down the Carrock. And THEN they hear wargs and Thorin send Bilbo to investigate the sounds and see where are the hunters.
Then there's the "a couple of leagues, no more" scene. And Beorn.
Or maybe.... no carrock. Or no eagles? What if they only show up at the Battle?
Some people say that the whole carrock dialogue we have in the pine forest we would get in after the barrels scene.
Any thought? If you disagree with if, please reply
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, my blog is: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
(This post was edited by DainPig on Nov 27 2015, 9:06pm)
|
|
|
Smaug the iron
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 9:22pm
Post #2 of 15
(1019 views)
Shortcut
|
In the two films we should still have Thorin vs Azog and Thorin being wounded and the Eagles would still save them.
And THEN they hear wargs and Thorin send Bilbo to investigate the sounds and see where are the hunters.
Then there's the "a couple of leagues, no more" scene. And Beorn. No that scene with Bilbo investigate and "a couple of leagues, no more" are shot during pickups in 2013.
|
|
|
DainPig
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 10:52pm
Post #3 of 15
(980 views)
Shortcut
|
In the two films we should still have Thorin vs Azog and Thorin being wounded and the Eagles would still save them. Yes, but not so epic as we got. And Bilbo would not save him.
I think they originally had another version of the carrock filmed without the Bilbo/Thorin hug. When TH became a trilogy, they had to reshot this scene again with another script.
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, my blog is: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
|
|
|
Smaug the iron
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 11:12pm
Post #4 of 15
(971 views)
Shortcut
|
That it would not be has epic? It would be exactly the same as now but instead of Bilbo saving Thorin the eagles dose.
I think they originally had another version of the carrock filmed without the Bilbo/Thorin hug. When TH became a trilogy, they had to reshot this scene again with another scrip Yes, I think you are right.
|
|
|
DainPig
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 11:21pm
Post #5 of 15
(966 views)
Shortcut
|
That it would not be has epic? It would be exactly the same as now but instead of Bilbo saving Thorin the eagles dose.
Because the arriving of the eagles is too "final climax" for the 2nd act of AUJ (original 1st movie). I think there was another score for this scene.
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, my blog is: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
|
|
|
Smaug the iron
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 11:26pm
Post #6 of 15
(963 views)
Shortcut
|
But even if it is only the 2nd act and have another score dose not mean it would not be just as epic.
But we will never know.
|
|
|
DainPig
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 11:29pm
Post #7 of 15
(960 views)
Shortcut
|
But even if it is only the 2nd act and have another score dose not mean it would not be just as epic. Yes, epic, but not epic as the battle of forges (final climax).
But we will never know. So sad 
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, my blog is: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
(This post was edited by DainPig on Nov 27 2015, 11:31pm)
|
|
|
DainPig
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 11:34pm
Post #8 of 15
(956 views)
Shortcut
|
I found a nice picture
http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Hobbit-massive-banner-3.jpg
This is from an online poster.
As you can see, Gandalf is talking to Beorn... in the bear form! Yes, probably it was so in the 2-fil structure.
And there was no carrock.
But there's no way to be soo sure.
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, my blog is: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
(This post was edited by DainPig on Nov 27 2015, 11:37pm)
|
|
|
dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 28 2015, 9:04am
Post #9 of 15
(857 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Yes, it would have been very different...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Everything would. If they had fitted everything up to the end of the barrel escape in one film, with Gandalf's journey to the High Fells as well, a huge amount of material would have been cut and lost.
On your specific points, the 'why did you come back' scene might have been included in some form (if there was time for it) because Bilbo would still have been seperated from the dwarves in the goblin tunnels and he would still have had to rejoin them and explain (or not quite explain) what had happened.
I don't think he would have saved Thorin - that moment, when Thorin recognises Bilbo's usefulness to the company, would have come later. The whole Carrock scene would have been unnecessary.
I do think there would have been some form of eagle rescue.
But when I look at all the things that happen between the end of AUJ and Bard's first appearance in DoS, and think how much would have had to be cut to condense that down to one film, I can only be profoundly grateful that they made three films. My only regret is that they didn't have the time to think it through and decide to make a trilogy from the outset. It would have saved so much fuss and argument....
|
|
|
Noria
Gondor
Nov 28 2015, 12:55pm
Post #10 of 15
(795 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I too am happy to have these three films
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
And everything else dormouse said.
|
|
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Nov 28 2015, 9:58pm
Post #11 of 15
(698 views)
Shortcut
|
I think if they had announced from the get go that they were making three films out of the "short, simple children's book" there would have been at least as much of an uproar, that never would have died down. It may be true that if they had planned three films from the beginning it would have turned out better, or at least would have gone smoother, but even that I am not convinced about. I think people forget just how crazed and difficult the lead up to ROTK was, and how much they changed and reworked over the course of the production of the LOTR films.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
|
|
|
TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan
Nov 28 2015, 10:14pm
Post #12 of 15
(693 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Both productions were, as P.J. described and has been mentioned ad nauseum
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
"Laying down tracks in front of a moving train." And though I recognize and appreciate the differing opinions among everyone here, I truly believe there is a consistency of brilliance spread over these movies (the EE's take this to even greater heights) and there is no other series that has been this ambitious and has had the conviction and skill to execute almost everything as wonderfully as was done here.
What Joe Morgenstern said in his review of RotK for The Wall Street Journal applies now to the entire body of work as acutely as it did for that marvelous end to the first trilogy: "Never has a filmmaker aimed higher, or achieved more."
[To a corpse] "You're looking so well, darling, you really are. They've done a marvelous job. I don't know what sort of cream they've put on you down at the morgue, but I want some."
- The Grand Budapest Hotel
|
|
|
dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 28 2015, 11:46pm
Post #13 of 15
(680 views)
Shortcut
|
It just seems to me that the late change to three films created another mantra to bash the production with. At the start it was 'why make two films of a simple children's book', 'they don't need two films'. Then the third film was announced and two films suddenly became the lost ideal....
I think they would have had an easier time if the three film split had been decided from the outset, not least because that would have meant that they also had much longer in pre-production. I've just started watching the Appendices - where Peter Jackson talks about having to go into filming without even having storyboards, and it being something he could only pull off because he had so much experience with the other films. It must have been pretty stressful. Then again, developing and changing ideas as the film progresses seems to be a part of the way he works...
I don't know. That's why for me the amazing films they have actually created seem so much more worth engaging with than films that might have been. Every time someone produces a list of their 'improved' edit it leave me speechless at the magical scenes they would throw away.
|
|
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Nov 29 2015, 12:11am
Post #14 of 15
(667 views)
Shortcut
|
I just think that on some level they were damned whatever they did with these films, following on the memories of the LOTR films, and with the basic differences between the two books.
I also have only dipped my toes in the appendices, but I certainly agree that under different circumstances they might have had an easier time with the production. But I'm not convinced that the films would have been better, or at least that I would have like them better. I think on some level Peter Jackson works best in that improvisational mode. A prime example is the scene with Thorin and the gold floor. They had no idea how they were going to handle that scene, and yet what they came up with was extraordinary (and I have to say that after listening to Shippey and Rateliff talking about elements that went into that scene, I find it even more extraordinary than ever).
I am a firm believer that things happen for a reason, even things that seem at first blush to be less than optimal.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
|
|
|
dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 29 2015, 9:10am
Post #15 of 15
(625 views)
Shortcut
|
Your first sentence certainly. Sums up the position they were in from the start - and, I think, knew they were in.
I'm only at the very start of the appendices, so I look forward to learning more. But it strikes me now particularly when there are complaints about the writing and the adaptation, that one of the things that stands out for me in this trilogy is an aspect of the writing and adaptation. It's the creation of extraordinary scenes like the golden floor - and the golden statue before it - Thorin and Balin's first entry into the Mountain - the acorn - Tauriel's longing for starlight - Bilbo and Gandalf together at the end of the battle - (I could go on!). Scenes that have real depth and creativity to them and aren't 'in the book' but are spun from an engagement with the book.
I agree with your last sentence too...
|
|
|
|
|
Gandalf and Beorn
[