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HOBBITFAN13
Lorien
Nov 27 2015, 1:34pm
Post #1 of 18
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DOS cliffhanger
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Did anyone in theaters or when they saw DOS realize what the cliffhanger was going to be because of the 20-30 minute chase sequence? Do you all liked the idea DOS ended that specific way with Smaug flying off to Laketown? Would've you liked Smaug's attack at the end of the film getting rid of the chase sequence?
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Nov 27 2015, 1:38pm
Post #2 of 18
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The end being Smaugs death would have been better for me
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The cliffhanger makes it umconfortable to watch specially for the beggining of BOTFA. Specially when you have the forges sequence that lasts the same or even more that the attack on laketown and could have been used to conclude Smaugs plot
And the time in BOTFA used to laketown attack could have been used to do a terrific and wider battle in Dol Guldur with wolves, spiders, bats, orcs, Nazguls and Sauron
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to The Battle for the Fifth Trailer
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(This post was edited by Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) on Nov 27 2015, 1:40pm)
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 1:49pm
Post #3 of 18
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I thought it was a good and a new way to end the film, plus in TBOFA they gave us the best opening of all six films IMO.
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Noria
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 2:02pm
Post #4 of 18
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The image of Smaug winging through the night sky towards a sleeping Laketown was haunting for me.
IMO it works story-wise too because, with his departure from Erebor, Smaug's part in the story of the Dwarves is over. The attack on the town and the consequent death of the dragon is what starts the story of TBOTFA rolling.
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Nov 27 2015, 2:19pm
Post #5 of 18
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I thought the cliff hanger was the best ending at of all the six. It left you in such shocked state that it was perfect.
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balbo biggins
Rohan
Nov 27 2015, 3:38pm
Post #6 of 18
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i didnt mind it, but its all caused by the problems of the three film split, which is another conversation...
its actaully is more like the lotr books in a sense which both the fotr and ttt end with a cliffhanger which i missed from the films.
regarding the smuag furnace scenes, you did have to have something like that, i would to have liked to have seen more smaug trapping the dwarves in the mountain like the book, we could have had a wonderfull scene of smaug flying around and destrying the secret entrance to the lonely mountain, then flying off to laketown which might have been more realistic.
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HOBBITFAN13
Lorien
Nov 27 2015, 3:51pm
Post #7 of 18
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I really think and this what made the LOTR really good for me is that each film had a structure a beginning, middle, and end and the problem for the cliffhanger was that for me you saw it coming after the 30 minute chase sequence. I just wish if they wanted the cliffhanger I think they should've gotten rid of the Legolas vs. Bolg sequence in Laketown and make the chase about 10 minutes long. I was in the theater and after watching the movie some guy said that was probably one of the worst cliffhangers ever because once you are in the chase sequence with Smaug and the dwarves you have to deal with the Legolas fight sequence in Laketown. I kind of agree with that guy because it was not the best cliffhanger and I think it could've been so much better. Or they could've used SMAUG's ATTACK as the ending. That would've been better.
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Omnigeek
Lorien
Nov 27 2015, 3:53pm
Post #8 of 18
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It was an excellent way to bridge the movies
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I actually thought finishing DOS with Smaug flying off toward Lake-town was a classic cliffhanger that and opening BoFA with Smaug's death was a great way to bridge the films. As balbo points out, it's also closer to the book than trying to wrap DoS up with Smaug's death. It did cost themin terms of the overall film presentation but it was a good editorial decision at the time.
I am very curious about how TH would have been approached if PJ, FW, and PB had been able to give it the same kind of consideration and extensive storyboarding they used for LOTR. Under the circumstances, (despite my numerous complaints) they did a marvelous job.
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HOBBITFAN13
Lorien
Nov 27 2015, 4:00pm
Post #9 of 18
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I think it was a good decision to open the BOFA like that so the main villain of the story SMAUG should be in all three movies and yes it does bridge the films. Sometimes I thought it was a better idea of having Smaug's death in DOS before I saw BOFA after seeing BOFA I really liked it as the opening.
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Withywindle
Bree
Nov 27 2015, 4:02pm
Post #10 of 18
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I really think and this what made the LOTR really good for me is that each film had a structure a beginning, middle, and end and the problem for the cliffhanger was that for me you saw it coming after the 30 minute chase sequence. I just wish if they wanted the cliffhanger I think they should've gotten rid of the Legolas vs. Bolg sequence in Laketown and make the chase about 10 minutes long. I was in the theater and after watching the movie some guy said that was probably one of the worst cliffhangers ever because once you are in the chase sequence with Smaug and the dwarves you have to deal with the Legolas fight sequence in Laketown. I kind of agree with that guy because it was not the best cliffhanger and I think it could've been so much better. Or they could've used SMAUG's ATTACK as the ending. That would've been better.
"'... The Withywindle valley is said to be queerest part of the whole wood- the centre from which all the queerness comes, as it were.'" -Merry, The Fellowship of the Ring, Book I, Chapter VI, The Old Forest
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Nov 27 2015, 4:09pm
Post #11 of 18
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Legolas and Bolg has nothing to do with the cliffhanger
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The cliffhanger is that Smaug is going attack Laketown and Legolas vs Bolg had nothing to do with it, because it has been a long time between the fight in Laketown and Smaug attacking Laketown so it has nothing to do with the cliffhanger.
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Toukol
Bree
Nov 28 2015, 12:39am
Post #12 of 18
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Although when I watch all six movies back to back for 6 nigts, I'm going to watch TDOS then BOFA up to Smaug's death, because I think that works better.
The only part of the cliffhanger ending I did not like was Legolas riding off after Bolg across the Laketown bridge, because it never goes anywhere. It is not picked up at all in BOFA. We just see Legolas appear on the shore with the Laketown refugees the next day.
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DainPig
Gondor
Nov 28 2015, 12:43am
Post #13 of 18
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I do not like this cliffhanger at all
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It is like a slap in our face. You sit and watch a 3 hour movie just to see a dragon flying to kill the men and.... BLACK SCREEN!
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, my blog is: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
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moreorless
Gondor
Nov 28 2015, 7:14am
Post #14 of 18
(722 views)
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The image of Smaug winging through the night sky towards a sleeping Laketown was haunting for me.
IMO it works story-wise too because, with his departure from Erebor, Smaug's part in the story of the Dwarves is over. The attack on the town and the consequent death of the dragon is what starts the story of TBOTFA rolling.
Ending on Smaug flying towards laketown and Bilbo's "what have we done" gives those scenes a power I think they wouldn't otherwise have had.
As you say I think Smaug leaving Erebor makes for the natural climax of DOS because it also makes for a natural climax in the story of Bilbo and Thorin that's central to that film, with the latters flaws increasingly coming to the fore.
Going back to that other thread I posted I suspect a lot of the reason for the shift to three films is that Jackson came to believe the material at the start of DOS naturally works as buildup to the climax of DOS better than it would have a climax similar to AUJ(but taking place with the barrel escape).
AUJ is the story of Bilbo earning Thorins respect and caring about the Dwarves lack of a home. Material like the goblins and Azog attacking plays into this as it shows the Dwarves in a mostly good light. For Beorn to work the chaarctrer needs to be distrustful of dwarves and for the Wood Elves to work Thorin needs to be shown in an even worse light. Not very suitable build up for charcters Bilbo is looking to both earn the respect of and sympathise with.
(This post was edited by moreorless on Nov 28 2015, 7:23am)
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Benya
The Shire
Nov 28 2015, 10:18pm
Post #15 of 18
(615 views)
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If this had to be three films they should have structured it as three solid experiences and not 1 film and then another film with a "TO BE CONTINUED" right in the middle of an action sequence. That's cheap storytelling bait they use on soap operas. Smaug's attack and defeat at Laketown should have been the victorious climax of DoS.
They could have easily used the council vs. Sauron as the opening of film three. That or a new flashback prologue with Thorin and Dain to set up the significance of the latter's arrival.
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HobbitBreakfast
The Shire
Nov 29 2015, 3:41am
Post #16 of 18
(591 views)
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Cliffhanger fine but with slight change
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I would have liked for the film to cut to black right after Smaug says "I. Am. Death." with the camera right on his face. Feel like that would've been powerful enough without the horrified comment from Bilbo.
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EgyptRaider
The Shire
Nov 29 2015, 8:43am
Post #17 of 18
(576 views)
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The image of Smaug winging through the night sky towards a sleeping Laketown was haunting for me.
IMO it works story-wise too because, with his departure from Erebor, Smaug's part in the story of the Dwarves is over. The attack on the town and the consequent death of the dragon is what starts the story of TBOTFA rolling. Ending on Smaug flying towards laketown and Bilbo's "what have we done" gives those scenes a power I think they wouldn't otherwise have had. As you say I think Smaug leaving Erebor makes for the natural climax of DOS because it also makes for a natural climax in the story of Bilbo and Thorin that's central to that film, with the latters flaws increasingly coming to the fore. Going back to that other thread I posted I suspect a lot of the reason for the shift to three films is that Jackson came to believe the material at the start of DOS naturally works as buildup to the climax of DOS better than it would have a climax similar to AUJ(but taking place with the barrel escape). AUJ is the story of Bilbo earning Thorins respect and caring about the Dwarves lack of a home. Material like the goblins and Azog attacking plays into this as it shows the Dwarves in a mostly good light. For Beorn to work the chaarctrer needs to be distrustful of dwarves and for the Wood Elves to work Thorin needs to be shown in an even worse light. Not very suitable build up for charcters Bilbo is looking to both earn the respect of and sympathise with.
This is all very true! While the split makes certain lake-town stories quite unconformtable (like the Master, black arrow and the windlance) it serves the Bilbo-Thorin stories very well, and in the end, that is the mainstory, so the movies should first and foremost serve that one instead of laketown.
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moreorless
Gondor
Nov 29 2015, 11:30am
Post #18 of 18
(565 views)
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This is all very true! While the split makes certain lake-town stories quite unconformtable (like the Master, black arrow and the windlance) it serves the Bilbo-Thorin stories very well, and in the end, that is the mainstory, so the movies should first and foremost serve that one instead of laketown.
I would agree that two films might well have been better for material like Bard and the White Council but as you say I suspect Jackson came to realise that the real cinematic goldmine was always Bilbo/Thorin with the latter being by more ripe for expanding on screen relative to the book.
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