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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"Over 20 minutes"

Cirashala
Valinor


Oct 2 2015, 4:47pm

Post #1 of 19 (2612 views)
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"Over 20 minutes" Can't Post

So, whether it's new or not, Guert's posting about the trailer below caused me to notice something.

The trailer (which I think is new, or so it seems) states "OVER 20 minutes of never before seen footage".

Yet we all know the official running time is only 20 minutes longer than the TE.

Does this mean what I hope it means?? Sly

I hope it means that, like DOS, they actually reworked some existing scenes. And I hope that, like DOS, the reworked scenes actually improve the film.

I have little hope that Tauriel and Legolas aren't involved in Kili and Bolg's deaths, respectively, though one can hop onto the River of Denial regarding that "unfortunate" situation Unsure But I do hope that this will fix the atrocious editing in the last 1/3 of the film and allow it to a) make more sense, and b) improve the too-tight editing so that the story flows a lot better.

The extra adjusted ten minutes in DOS vastly improved the film as a whole, IMHO. One can hope that adjusting existing scenes will do the same for BO5A. If any of the ME films needs existing scenes adjusted, it is BO5A hands down. Crazy



Darkstone
Immortal


Oct 2 2015, 5:01pm

Post #2 of 19 (2554 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Recall some of the additional footage added to the FOTR-EE merely replaced parts of the TE. (For example during Gandalf's entrance to the Shire and during the entrance to Lothlorien.) Nothing was cut that wasn't replaced by longer versions of the same. So we'll probably get like 25 minutes of extra footage in return for like 5 minutes worth of cuts.

******************************************

"Mister Frodo, hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good frying pan at your side. I’ve been from one side of this garden to the other, I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Providence controlling everything. There's no Music of the Ainur that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."


(This post was edited by Darkstone on Oct 2 2015, 5:02pm)


Dcole4
Rohan

Oct 2 2015, 5:08pm

Post #3 of 19 (2538 views)
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DOS only had slight adjustments... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the re-tooling of DOS is a bit overblown. It was certainly welcome but it wasn't overly substantial.I think in total there was probably a minute, or just over, of adjusted footage. Bringing the total from 25 minutes to something like 26. I think the most substantial change in BOTFA will be Dain's entrance which seems to be re-done entirely. Beyond that, I highly doubt any heavy tweaking to be done.

I am also someone who has issues with the final act of the movie, but I don't think its reasonable to expect too much. Sadly. I'd love for them to introduce some footage from the battlefield to intercut with what's happening on Ravenhill, but I don't think that's likely. While in the production videos it seemed like they shot footage of a much larger battle on Ravenhill with the dwarves and elves and men, I think it'd require too much retooling for them. It'd be too expensive, likely one of the factors into why it was dropped in the final edit. With the Beorn/Eagles scene being expanded, I'd love to see this section embellished a bit more, my dream is that they'll account for the happenings of Dain, and the remainder o the company. But those are all things, that if shot, would have likely been included in the TE.


balbo biggins
Rohan


Oct 2 2015, 5:08pm

Post #4 of 19 (2533 views)
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hopes [In reply to] Can't Post

dont get your hopes up.

they had the longest time with any of the 6 films to get this film right , i cant see how or why they would need to drastically reedit any of the scenes, they had a year to edit it the first time, and i honestly dont think its going to make much difference either way.


MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien

Oct 2 2015, 5:09pm

Post #5 of 19 (2537 views)
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At least one time there was [In reply to] Can't Post

In the theatrical cut of DOS, the Dwarves stop walking in Mirkwood and Nori says, "The path, it's disappeared!" The EE removes this and instead has Thorin clearly leading them astray.

And the trailer for BOFA suggests that the introduction of Dain's army is heavily reworked, so it's possible other scenes will be too.


Avandel
Half-elven


Oct 2 2015, 5:32pm

Post #6 of 19 (2491 views)
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Hear, hear [In reply to] Can't Post

It's going to be fascinating, anyway, to find out - e.g., the rumors? and hearsay? mentioned about PJ were correct....

E.g, did PJ sit in that London theater as a fan, looking at his "product", and frown to himself over the editing and *cough* the character balance (like those mere seconds of the highly anticipated Beorn - phhttt. Geez, I remember fretting over how they would possibly film Beorn carrying Thorin from the battlefieldShocked, which was always one of the most poignant parts of the book for meHeart, and well, that didn't happen anyway - but at the least I would have expected Beorn to have been shown as the game-changer in the battle that he wasUnsure).

Or have the discontented fan rumblings over Fili etc. reached his ears, and does he careUnsure? Did it sink in that an overly-large serving of Alfrid-time didn't exactly enthrall the audience and became a source of annoyance (I mean, if I had been in the editing room I would have hoped I MIGHT have said something along the lines of "why is so much time being spent on this character" but I get the feeling that while you can DISCUSS with PJ, it's his word that is final.)

Personally, tho, I don't have any high hopes for an AMAZING edit that will truly re-balance things, because I figure that PJ & co. through interviews and the films themselves already showed a fondness for Tauriel, Legolas, and Alfrid, and haven't seemed to be concerned about commentary of folks complaining - even if they are aware of itUnsure - of complaints like "character X being shoved at us".

Plus, BOFA did in fact make quite a lot of money and is a success. So I'm thinking it will be a GOOD EE, but probably not to the degree of editing I personally would wish - like I bet Alfrid's demise makes it in, even tho I could care less. Doe anyone careUnsure? The big thing for me will the dwarves and Beorn FINALLY get their IMO well-deserved minutes of screen time and hero moments in battle. ALL the dwarves, not just have the chariot scene be the "dwarf time" tho I am looking forward to that.Tongue

And seeing Fili talk some more would be niceUnimpressed. Seeing as he is Thorin's heir and all.Unimpressed And does anyone else think it's a bit weird that PJ & co. have been so utterly silent for so long? No interviews, nothing. Maybe he just wants to be left alone to work, and I can understand that, and interviews will come later?


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Oct 2 2015, 5:36pm

Post #7 of 19 (2483 views)
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Shortage of time. [In reply to] Can't Post

They may have had the longest time to produce the film, but the state of PJ in the week leading up to the premiere does suggest that they ran out, or were running out of time. Otherwise, he could have got some sleep and looked after his health.

I've got a suspicion that the final edit isn't quite what PJ wanted, and that what we will see in November will represent a cut he is truly happy with. Pure speculation, though. (I thought the film was great as it was, by the way - apart from elements that had been introduced in the previous films which had, by default, to be in it.)

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Avandel
Half-elven


Oct 2 2015, 5:37pm

Post #8 of 19 (2483 views)
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Although [In reply to] Can't Post

A bit OT here, but just sayin' -

Re the DOS EE, I never quite got what Thorin seemed to be looking at - I mean he seems to be looking at something in particular that sends him off, and my best guess it was higher ground, but I never get that part because if he is seeing something in particular, not sure what it was.Unsure


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Oct 2 2015, 5:42pm

Post #9 of 19 (2471 views)
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Or [In reply to] Can't Post

he just thinks he had found a shortcut.


LSF
Gondor

Oct 2 2015, 5:55pm

Post #10 of 19 (2452 views)
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Hmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Armitage, Lily, and McTavish said "it wasn't what he wanted" in various interviews about BOFA Theatrical. And that "the very focus of the film was different in the original cut." There were also rumors (can't remember if an an interview or not) that PJ was pretty much told what he had to put in it. This leads me to believe executive meddling from WB. But I suppose that's just my speculation based on what I've read

Yeah, it is a good fun exciting movie. While it is lacking in some things we would've liked to have seen, it didn't stop me from seeing it in theater multiple times.


Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Oct 2 2015, 6:06pm

Post #11 of 19 (2429 views)
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Links [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you (or anyone else) have links to those interviews? I'm not doubting you. I remember seeing two of the three you mentioned. I'd just like to see them again. It's interesting because I don't think anyone (director, writer, producer, actor) has ever said anything like this about any of the five other movies. I know a lot of it is wishful thinking and speculation, but I think there's some truth to the idea of PJ not being as happy with this theatrical cut as he was with the other five.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Oct 2 2015, 6:10pm

Post #12 of 19 (2420 views)
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I didn't know that, but I suspected as much. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think for me, the sheer quality of the film making - probably those parts that were comparatively free of WB meddling - especially Smaug's attack, the scenes inside Erebor, the final duel and the ending - meant I could just blank out things like Tauriel's Mills and Boon moment (and her general presence). I'd already learned to live with the, I suspect, mainly studio led cliches, as they were all introduced in DOS, so I was inoculated against them by the time I sat down to watch BOTFA.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


LSF
Gondor

Oct 2 2015, 6:12pm

Post #13 of 19 (2420 views)
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No, sorry [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, I don't. I read them soon after the bofa release and never saved them.

And yeah, I don't recall ever seeing anyone say stuff like that for the other five theatrical versions.


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan

Oct 2 2015, 6:24pm

Post #14 of 19 (2405 views)
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I certainly hope so [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree the retooling of those bits of DoS + the added scenes very greatly improved upon the finished work.


Never_Underestimate_A_Dwarf
Rivendell


Oct 2 2015, 6:38pm

Post #15 of 19 (2384 views)
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Probably [In reply to] Can't Post

What they mean is twenty minutes and one second of new material. That would technically be over twenty minutes.

Justice for Fili


Maciliel
Valinor


Oct 3 2015, 1:43am

Post #16 of 19 (2063 views)
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the utter waste of fili and dean o'gorman was a crime [In reply to] Can't Post

 
dean was an absolute +find+ for fili... i love his comical, but sexy, over-confident swagger, and the way he can emote even without dialog (loved his little exchanges with the elves who kept removing various weapons from his person).

the relative absence of fili was a crime. one might even forget he was brothers with kili. kili develops a yearning for an +elf+, and he doesn't even chat about it with his brother? fili is thorin's heir, but you'd never know it. i think their demises would have been more poignant if fili and kili had had more "brother time."

arrrrghhhh!

carry on.

cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo

(This post was edited by Maciliel on Oct 3 2015, 1:44am)


Avandel
Half-elven


Oct 3 2015, 5:11pm

Post #17 of 19 (1776 views)
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oh, yes.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Agree with all your post, tho similar thoughts have been expressed before - but that's the thing, I guess, at least for me, watching the TEs and with the "last" EE upon us. Unless there is a LOT of edit of the EE - with some of the scenes that Dean has mentioned being filmed - for me it's always going to be jarringFrown watching the TEs an probably the EEs as pairs or altogether....

Because, re the dynamics of Fili and Thorin in DOS, and even w. Kili, I really believed in BOFA that there would be some intense dynamics between Fili (the heir) and his uncle - it just seemed like a natural flow -Thorin getting increasingly sicker and angrier and Fili clashing with him and struggling to cope, and love and reconciliation and loyalty and courage to the last...and as posted, Dean as Fili IMO was perfectionHeart - handsome, acting chops, athletic - even looks and costume and hair, believably a relative of Thorin's (tho I supposed that was an accidentCool). Still, visually, if Thorin and Thranduil make a striking image in the same frame, I would have found a few ways to frame Thorin and Fili for a few scenes - even just for PR. What a WASTE.



Even sending Fili out without what seemed to be his usual arsenal of weaponry felt like a breakdown in consistency, unless it was supposed to be some statement about this being a suicidal charge of sortsUnsure - but if so, to me, Fili still would have had an extra knife or two on him - well, maybe he did, it's just part of the battle fight scenes that got edited out or never finished.

So - perhaps - just maybe - this EE will rebalance things a bit. Unsure


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Oct 3 2015, 8:23pm

Post #18 of 19 (1686 views)
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Yep, quite likely [In reply to] Can't Post

Based on the trailer for the cinema event it's possible that Dain's entrance scene is being re-worked, so the "new" footage might just replace the old (which would be a shame because Dain's arrival in the TE is an immensely enjoyable moment).

"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."-Gandalf


lionoferebor
Rohan


Oct 4 2015, 2:14am

Post #19 of 19 (1564 views)
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It is weird and a bit unsettling... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And does anyone else think it's a bit weird that PJ & co. have been so utterly silent for so long? No interviews, nothing. Maybe he just wants to be left alone to work, and I can understand that, and interviews will come later?


 
 

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