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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 2 2015, 1:36pm
Post #26 of 30
(609 views)
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The book, "The Hobbit," really wouldn't make much of a film...
Only if all you are doing is a literal, scene-for-scene reproduction of Tolkien's words on screen. Any decent adaptation has to expand on things a bit, even if it doesn't add any new scenes or characters. Environments need to be fleshed-out. The company needs to encounter folk in their travels; and the lesser members of the company need to be fleshed-out themselves. This is why Guillermo del Toro deemed a two-part adaptation appropriate in the first place.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 2 2015, 1:49pm)
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Sep 2 2015, 1:40pm
Post #27 of 30
(607 views)
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Had two major scenes with little or no dialogue, which were voiced over by other characters (Bilbo, and Balin). Which inflated those characters' totals relative to him, while giving him plenty of importance overall, in film, which is a visual medium.
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AndHeHandedHimTheTobaccoJar
Bree
Sep 2 2015, 2:19pm
Post #28 of 30
(595 views)
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Is that I don't disagree that elves and men need to be in the film, I merely don't understand why men and elves (some of which aren't even in the book; which still turned out fine) need to have larger roles than all but a handful of the other important characters, and by such a significant portion.
As a 6 or 7 year old, I still understood that Bilbo was leaving home behind and entering a new world that was "mysterious and wonderful" and "stretched back across the centuries" before I even got past Chapter 3! I don't mind having a character like Thranduil in the role he is in. It's a perfect expansion of the character. If they wanted to put Legolas and Tauriel into small roles (like Haldir in LOTR) that would be fine for me; I would still be intrigued by the world of elves, and Thranduil would still have somebody to bounce off of, at least enough to expand his character. But you don't have to bloat the roles of characters like these and add in cheesy stunts and terribly written love triangles to get me to realize that Bilbo's journey "grows in scale and becomes larger and deeper and more complex".
Bard is a secondary character. Bilbo is the main character, and you put Bard, Thorin, Gandalf, and Smaug on the second tier imo. Not that complicated.
I agree with what you say is the main theme of The Hobbit. I guess what I said came out the wrong way. What I'm trying to get across is that it's Gandalf who shoves Bilbo out his door, and Gandalf who is there all the way until Mirkwood, and it is Gandalf who we wonder about until he returns, and it is Gandalf who gets the three armies to unite against a common evil. It is 13 dwarves who show up on Bilbo's doorstep and take him on their quest. It is 13 dwarves who battle trolls, see the wonder of Rivendell, escape the goblins and wargs, meet the eagles and a shapeshifting man, travel through the perilous Mirkwood, hear the real tale of how Bilbo got the Ring, escape the confines of the Elvenking's halls in barrels, emerge half-drowned but victorious in Laketown, find the hidden-door, enter the mountain, fight in the battle, and say the final goodbye to Bilbo. So pretty much, Gandalf and 13 dwarves are there from beginning to end. Without them the journey would never begin, and it would have ended most differently. Bilbo never would have learned his place in the world.
I don't mean to come off as rude or antagonistic, so I hope you don't take it that way. It's nice to have a discussion with somebody who can bring up so many good points.
(This post was edited by AndHeHandedHimTheTobaccoJar on Sep 2 2015, 2:27pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Sep 2 2015, 3:56pm
Post #29 of 30
(569 views)
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To pick out one very simple answer
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On the issue of lines (though I don't tend to go to the term "needs") all 13 dwarves are in the same place as one another.
I think looking at them solely as characters, without any context, misses the point (and certainly isn't how stories are created).
Imagine instead that we are making a TV show with reporters at 3 locations. If we have two reporters in studio A, three in studio B and 13 in studio C, then I'm not sure we would be surprised that, even if we spend more time in studio C, each of those 13 reporters didn't have as many lines as the presenters in studios A or B.
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Sep 2 2015, 4:14pm
Post #30 of 30
(563 views)
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I didn't think Bombur had any lines...
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If I'm reading it correctly, that chart is saying that Bifur had no lines, but he did, they were just in Khuzdul(sp?). It also seems to be saying that Bombur had a teeny tiny bit of words in DOS, but IIRC, even in the extended editions, Bombur has been our silent dwarf and never said anything on screen, has he?
I also notice that Feren, my favorite horn-blowing elf, has been left out entirely even though he got some lines in BotFA. Thranduil's keeper of the keys and the butler(?) elf who both got drunk were also left out.
Overall, though, it's an interesting chart and I agree that the top three characters with the most words is perfect. The order of the rest of them doesn't matter that much to me. I enjoy the movies the way they are, flaws and all.
Pretty much the only complaint I can think of is that that scene that was supposed to be in the DOS EE but got left out at the last minute, the one where the whole company of dwarves got brought before Thranduil, would have boosted Thranduil's word count a bit (and Balin's and Dwalin's IIRC from the clip). There was also a scene between Thranduil and Legolas that they filmed for DOS where Legolas asked permission to go after Tauriel and they both suddenly remember the poem about the mountain king's return. That scene would have boosted both their word counts somewhat.
*sigh* I do wish they would have at least kept the scene with the whole dwarven company being brought before Thranduil, but it is what it is. Then again, if they ever decide to do those Super Extended Editions of both LOTR and TH (and I suspect they may, someday) there could still be a chance that we'll see those scenes. Who knows?
Lord I give you everything, Anything you want from me
Take my past and my future I lay it at your feet
Yeah, I'm after your heart, you've stolen mine
I give you my all 'cause you gave up your life
I'm not who I was simply because, Oh, you set me free
And you change me from what I used to be
Opened my eyes, now I can see
You're making this life so beautiful
So beautiful
~"Beautiful" by Dan Bremnes
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