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Need help with a translation

Durden
Registered User

Aug 31 2015, 12:15am

Post #1 of 12 (3469 views)
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Need help with a translation Can't Post

Hi,
I'm not sure if it's the good place to ask for this, and I suppose you may be a bit tired of this kind of question, but I really don't want to mess this up.
I want to get a tattoo written in elvish. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense as elvish is a really vague term, but I tried to dive into Tolkien's work on languages and I just can't seem to be able to translate it myself.
The sentence I want to translate is : "Let me ride, until I get free".
By using http://www.jenshansen.com/...engraving-translator, I get the translation you can see as an attachment.
Is it correct ? What can be improved ? I care a lot about this tattoo, and I want it to be perfect, however long it might take to refine it.
Attachments: tattoo.jpg (10.6 KB)


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 31 2015, 4:29am

Post #2 of 12 (3442 views)
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While I can't help with the translation, [In reply to] Can't Post

I have moved your post to the Main discussion board as it's more appropriate here, and more people are likely to see it. (I've left a post-pointer in the Reading Room though so people can still read your post from there.)

:)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Durden
Registered User

Aug 31 2015, 4:42am

Post #3 of 12 (3438 views)
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Thank you very much, [In reply to] Can't Post

and sorry for the inconvenience :).


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 31 2015, 10:29am

Post #4 of 12 (3412 views)
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Hi Durden! [In reply to] Can't Post

Would you want a translation, or a transcription?

The Jens Hansen site contains an error in its description. It is doing a transcription, not a translation.

What you have there is a lovely transcription - it's the words "let me ride until I get free" in a one-to-one letter transcription, that is, the letters are in Tengwar instead of a standard English font. But the text is still in English.

If what you'd like is to translate the phrase into Sindarin or Quenya, then you'd need to find a site that shows the words or phrases in one of those languages. And after it's translated, then you could transcribe the English letters into Tengwar.

I hope this doesn't confuse you!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


Durden
Registered User

Aug 31 2015, 12:45pm

Post #5 of 12 (3404 views)
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Hi dernwyn, [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for your answer.

This is precisely the wording I was looking for ! I'm still not sure if I want a transcription or a translation though, I guess I want to see both and choose the most aesthetically pleasing one.

One of my main problem was, I didn't know if my link was giving me a transcription or a translation so thank you for enlightening me :).

I've been actively looking for a site which could help with the translation, but they all seem to simply transcript my sentence. Do you have a link for translating, by any chance ?


Durden
Registered User

Aug 31 2015, 1:58pm

Post #6 of 12 (3390 views)
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Sorry for posting twice in a row... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but I can't find the "edit" button if there is one :).

So I dived a bit deeper into it and tried to translate it manually using dictionnaries like you suggested, but some of the words don't seem to have an existing translation. So I guess I'll just stick with the transcription in Tengwar.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it !

EDIT : well, the edit button shows up on this post but not on the one before.


(This post was edited by Durden on Aug 31 2015, 2:01pm)


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 31 2015, 7:38pm

Post #7 of 12 (3363 views)
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About the edit link: [In reply to] Can't Post

Posts have a 10-minute window for editing, after which they're editable only by moderators. If you'd like a post to be edited (once the 10-minute window is closed) just post a request on the Feedback board and the next moderator to come along will help you out.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 1 2015, 1:37am

Post #8 of 12 (3337 views)
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Translation can be tricky [In reply to] Can't Post

if the exact phrases weren't among ones Tolkien used! I've poked through several translation sites at times, and it can be difficult to piece together a phrase out of the single words.

Unless someone here knows how to effectively translate your phrase, it probably is best to go with a simple transcription. Which does look lovely!

Where are you planning to place the tattoo?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


Durden
Registered User

Sep 1 2015, 2:04am

Post #9 of 12 (3329 views)
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Well I'm missing like half the words [In reply to] Can't Post

so my hopes for someone to be able to translate it aren't quite high. But I find the transcription beautiful as well so I'm fine with that.

I want it written on the inside of my left forearm. That may well be the only tattoo I ever get done as I don't really like the idea of a tattoo anywhere else (at least on myself). I will upload a photo of it on this thread once it's done if you are interested in the result!

And thank you Ataahua for the explanation on the edit button!


Elthir
Grey Havens

Sep 1 2015, 11:09am

Post #10 of 12 (3319 views)
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Also... [In reply to] Can't Post

... generally speaking anway, a word about "dictionary translation". See page 15 at... Smile

http://www.elvish.org/articles/EASIS.pdf

Elvish as She Is Spoke


squire
Half-elven


Sep 1 2015, 11:45am

Post #11 of 12 (3306 views)
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I love that article. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



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sador
Half-elven


Sep 2 2015, 8:43am

Post #12 of 12 (3280 views)
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Thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have known of this essay, but never yet read it in full. It is very interesting - especially its first pages, which explain grammatical expositions.
Regarding the languages - I have never tried to learn Elvish in any form, so I cannot say; obviously, much of David Salo's work in Jackson's films is likely to be at least as speculative as the added scenes which are not attested by (as opposed to those which contradict) the book - probably more, as the screenwriters worked within an environment of people who were qualified to criticise their inventions.

This is the same old argument: many (probably the vast majority, at least if we count the less dedicated fans) love Tolkien's work for the inspiration and stimulus it gives their own imaginations, and do not really want to be bound to the exact word of the Tolkien-given 'gospel'; such people will love Bakshi or Jackson's movies, or any other form of fan-fiction, based on how much it resonates with their own perceptions and sensibilities, and gives them pleasure - and not care that much about whether the late professor himself would approve.
And once we know that Tolkien himself changed his mind very often, usually didn't consider the full ramifications of any change or variant he introduced (and who possibly can?), and even made several demostratable mistakes - can we deny that these fans are justified to a certain extent?
Speaking for myself, the most I try to achieve (with mixed, but improving success) is to clearly seperate between the different layers of this Tolkien 'experience' - those he himself approved for publishing, the posthumously-published drafts and additions, my own extrapolations, those found in the few scholarly works I've read, popular adaptions and other fans' thought as I find on this website.

However, this is for me a fresh and fascinating angle. Thank you!

 
 

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