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Cirashala
Valinor
Aug 30 2015, 11:54pm
Post #1 of 14
(2458 views)
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That moment when....
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You realize that you are in the wonderful position of finally doing a Hobbit movie marathon including the TE of BO5A, and you lent the trilogy to your pregnant and impatiently waiting to pop sister in law for the week 
I find that it's easy to complain about the stuff we didn't like in the films **cough**Taurili and their last part of BO5A**cough**, but when you are really in the mood for watching The Hobbit, suddenly you realize how much you truly love the films, despite the niggles that you dislike, and how little they affect your enjoyment of Middle-earth overall, and the films.
A purist I know on fanfiction.net (yes, I found that odd too  ) hasn't seen the hobbit films once he realized Azog was in them, but he has seen the entire LOTR trilogy EE's, and has seen youtube clips and bits and pieces enough of TH to piece together the films, and describes both trilogies perfectly IMHO:
Absolutely gorgeous diamond moments mixed in with occasional manure.
I know it comes across a bit strongly, but he is a bit blunt  At any rate, it is an excellent reminder of why I came to love Tolkien in general (having been a LOTR movie-firster late to the party- I didn't discover the films until I met my now-husband in 2007).
PJ isn't perfect. He is human. And, though some may lynch me for this lol, neither is Tolkien. I for one would have made TH far longer (though I understand the concept of first novels being shorter as that is a publisher's requirement in case it doesn't sell so they don't spend a fortune on a bomb) and expanded the dwarves beyond the "happy little voiceless troupe with multi-colored hoods" (obviously excluding Thorin and Balin, and occasionally Bombur and a blurb of Fili and Kili) and fleshed them out the way PJ did. Conversely, I cannot STAND how the last 1/3 of the BO5A went, namely with Tauriel and Legolas and the exclusion of the rest of the battle and absence of Fili fighting (though his death, sad as it was, was very well done IMO).
So, the gems for me in TH trilogy are:
1. Bilbo's flashback to Dale and Erebor in their heyday (it was absolutely stunning to see a live dwarf kingdom, and makes me envision Moria in their heyday, and it's mind boggling- I haven't watched LOTR since AUJ came out, mostly because I KNOW Balin's tomb will make me bawl like a baby now). This strengthens LOTR because now, one truly understands what Moria had once been, they know Balin (and most I have seen love him, including myself, as a character) so Gimli's grief in the Chamber of Mazarbul is now experienced by the audience and we finally truly feel what he was feeling in his overwhelming grief. We also see the devastation that a dragon can do to a kingdom- imagine how much more horrifying it would have been when the dwarves of Moria awoke the Balrog! In this, we also see a part of Middle-earth we have never seen before- the north. And the richness of Dale and the culture within (where you see elves, dwarves, GASP lady dwarves mingling with the humans freely (further making Gimli's joke to Eowyn make sense and be as laughable as he found dwarves coming out of "holes in the ground") were a beautiful insight into another culture of ME.
2. Good Morning- HANDS DOWN. I could see the wonderful confusion on Bilbo's face, and seemed to match him with the "....What?" in response to Gandalf's words. PJ nailed this scene for sure- it was as though the scene I'd read about in the book just popped out of it and suddenly happened in front of me.
3. Bilbo in marketplace (EE)- was humorous, and showed the reason why Beorn later refers to Bilbo as a "little bunny" in the book- his attempts to avoid Gandalf and his "adventurous ways" was funny (though for the life of me I can't figure out why that pillow that was "Gandalf's hat" was shaped that way). But it was lovely to see the hobbit village at work. Before, in LOTR, you only see set up and then a party. But this was wonderful insight into the day-to-day lives of hobbits. You see fishermen, you see basketweavers, tradesmen, merriness, laughter, good cheer, carefree attitudes (except for Lobelia and her husband, whose keen interest in grandeur was evident and their snootiness makes you appreciate Bilbo's disdain for them!)- everything that makes a hobbit a hobbit.
4. ALL of Bag End scenes. PJ again nailed this. Bilbo goes from being very polite yet completely baffled to "Screw the propriety- PUT THAT DOWN!" His flustered, haughty (to the dwarves) gentlehobbity manner comes across so well in this scene. I also giggle that Gandalf has to count and list off the dwarves, and found it quite clever that said dwarf "passes him" when his name is mentioned, an astonishing feat considering how we know this scene was filmed (I felt so sorry for Ian McKellen). I love the familiarity of the dwarves, and the camaraderie that shows that they all know each other, but may not have hung out in quite some time, and taking a moment to chill before leaving on their quest the next day. You see the carefreeness in Fili and Kili, and get a great idea of their youth and enthusiasm. This scene becomes SO much more poignant when Bilbo arrives at his empty home. I can almost hear the ghosts of the now-absent company as Fili and Kili throw dishes around, and can see clearly in Bilbo's face his grief. Was he imagining Fili dumping his arsenal in his arms, and wishing he'd been more careful with it rather than tossing it haphazardly to the ground in frustration? Was he wishing that Kili were still there to wipe his boots on his mother's glory box? Did he wish to hear Thorin's voice one last time calling him a grocer? Did he miss the sound of dwarves' merrymaking as they tossed his dishes around? Did he miss his walls vibrating with the deep rumble of their mournful song, now that he has seen the devastation of a dragon firsthand and truly understands their loss? Ok, I'm tearing up just thinking about this (btw, you watch this scene in silence with Billy Boyd's "The Last Goodbye" playing in the background, and I guarantee you will start sobbing uncontrollably- I highly recommend taking ten boxes of tissues with you and taking a hot steamy shower after to breathe again). There and back again- perfectly executed in these bookend scenes, and just as beautiful and emotional and heartwrenching as Frodo's departure in ROTK.
5. Bilbo's initial reluctance to get on a pony, and his sudden Tookishness appearing when he realized it hadn't been a dream, and he had the chance to participate in something greater than himself. And loved the hanky issue- so tiny, but so Bilbo 
6. Balin's reiteration of the Battle of Azanulbizar- you can tell that he's doing it for Bilbo's benefit, but he's also speaking to Fili and Kili, and though their kinship to Thorin isn't evident until Laketown (per the book- both instances drive me nuts), it is strongly hinted at here when the camera focuses on the pair after Balin mentions the "Line of Durin". You can tell that they are a part of that line, you see the princes they were born to be as the weight of their station and responsibility crashes down on them, and in that moment their maturity level increases, even if a little. By the end of the films, you can tell that they have really grown up, so to speak, on this journey (perhaps indicating the fact that, though adults, they were quite sheltered in Ered Luin for the most part, and haven't had the chance to truly sprout their own wings despite having traveled a bit).
7. Trolls. Ok, this is a mixed bag. I thought it ludicrous in the book (no offense Tolkien) that the dwarves are on a quest to defeat a dragon, and yet they're stupid enough to go in one by one and get sacked (did no one pay attention to the first guy, not to mention the second, the third....turns out it took twelve dwarves to get sacked for someone to realize that it was a bad idea to waltz right into a troll camp ) and they're not carrying any weapons? Thorin uses a branch against the trolls, for heaven's sake? What did they expect to do when they got to the mountain? Call Smaug names until he ran away from these teeny dwarf bullies crying to his little dragon counselor?!?!?!?! So yeah, aside from the AWFUL troll snot, this scene was excellent.
8. Rivendell- ok, this one is a mix of diamond and manure. I loved the race from the wargs, and how Gandalf looks at the moss on the rocks as they continue on- very subtle, but in the book and well done. I had shivers down my spine when the company enters Rivendell- Bilbo feeling the magic of Elrond's ring as they cross into a timeless place, the beauty of the elven valley- I visibly relaxed as though I felt the cares of this world melt away. Bilbo's instant awe and love of it only became clearer during their stay, and his conversation with Elrond spoke volumes of the decades-long friendship they grow to have, and Bilbo's decision to retire there. However, I could definitely do without the dwarves' throwing food (I see the point was to show the difference in their cultures, but that was a bit much. The fountain, while not that tasteful, I can buy as they're dwarves that are homeless for the most part and on the road bathe when a stream or river crosses their path so this is actually in character when you think about it). They may be pickier eaters, but a culture that has endured starvation at times would surely not turn their noses up at food, no matter how distasteful, as long as it wasn't spoiled). Thorin's subtle insult to Elrond and his directing elves in elvish in response showed the bit of humor that I love in Elrond, and was a nice alternative to tra-la-lally which I cannot piece together with LOTR elves. I loved the white council too- Galadriel seems in charge, which irritates some people, but honestly in the book SHE created the WC, it was her brainchild, so despite the wizards technically being higher beings than her, she is actually in charge of the WC simply by virtue of being its creator. And I love how it shows her wisdom in siding with Gandalf as opposed to the narrow minded Saruman (good choice, considering what happens later).
9. LOVE LOVE LOVE the dwarves' march across the Misty Mountains with the MM theme in the background- it would have been nice to see more shots like this, to give ME some distance and depth in terms of land mass that is evident in LOTR, but I felt that the dwarves were truly AT HOME in the mountains- their feet were firm, their strides purposeful- the mountain is their territory, their home. Only these particular ones were not exactly THEIR home per se, but the nature of dwarves is that they belong with mountains (or rather, under them, but you get my point).
10. Stone giants- a diamond mixed with manure- I liked the concept, but think dwarves on their knees, while meant to up the peril, was overdone. However, it gave us great insights into dwarves' character- Bofur's slight skittishness, Thorin's love for his nephews (despite getting their names wrong, but if you look closely they apparently played leapfrog so I can forgive RA for getting confused- but should have been fixed in ADR), and the strong brother-bond between Fili and Kili are VERY good insights into them. And Thorin's reaction to Bilbo and leading up to his decision to temporarily leave the group qualified the stone giants to me because it gave the perfect opportunity for Bilbo to become separated, which leads me to.....
11. Riddles in the Dark- PERFECT. No more elaboration needed  I will point out that Tolkien's goblin song was very weak in the book, and should NOT have been replicated in the film (terrible). BUT, once the song is done, the goblintown sequence was good. I liked how they try what Bilbo did with the trolls- seems they learned from their previous mistake, but they underestimate the GK's intelligence in relation to trolls. BUT for the love of all that is good and holy, I wish the GK's chin hadn't looked like, well, a part of, ahem, male anatomy....yeah....if their goal was to make him grotesque, they succeeded But it didn't have to resemble, erm, other things....And I loved the pity of Bilbo- SO much in such a small scene! And pivotal to the entire story of the six films.
12. Chase out of Goblin town-excellent. I know that tunnels would have been difficult to film, and it may have logistically been easier for the company to get trapped in tunnels than on open ramps. PLUS- I can forgive the change because techically I believe that Goblin Town was, or could have been, a dwarf home at one point. And dwarves didn't live in tunnels like badgers- they lived in grand, open spaces reminiscent of Dwarrowdelf. And it's not like safety standard in dwarf mines existed So the ramps' existence makes sense (of course, the goblins added their own decor). And thanks to DwellerinDale's physics analysis (though I'd already come to the same conclusion), the dwarves' plausibility of surviving their fall is there, and I liked the subtle touch that yes some of them were hurt. But quite frankly, if I had an army of furious goblins coming after ME, I'd run like heck out of there even on a broken leg! 
13. Frying pan- well done, and fitting the characters' personalities. I would have preferred Azog to taunt Thorin in Westron so he understood the threat, but then again I think Bolg could have been substituted and it would have made sense. But if they were going to have Azog alive, may as well. Speaking of Azog, I thought the weathertop scene was both smart and dumb. Smart because it's a great vantage point, but dumb because they were supposedly trying to be subtle, and how is a whole warg pack visible at the top of a tower subtle?! I did like the subtle indication that the warg was speaking in a language (the growls and rumbles had a pattern to them).
14. EAGLES. I love them! Moth-o-gram is a bit frustrating, but there isn't much of a reason cinematically to explain how they knew to come if you weren't going to have them speak, which is fine for a kids' book or a book in general but hard to do on screen. And I LOVED that Fili and Kili went to defend Thorin- that's probably when Azog realized they were his kin  But it was a nice nod to their last stand in the book.
14. Hug and dwarf acceptance- I know it seemed early, but in the book this IS the moment- right after Goblintown- when the company DOES begin to accept Bilbo as one of them. So from that viewpoint, it makes sense. Now if fans can just stop with the bagginshield shipping It's a HUG between comrades in arms, not an offer of marriage....
Ahem, onto DOS....
1. Thorin and Gandalf conversation in Bree- LOVE IT. Turns out both Thorin and Gandalf are guilty of revealing the quest, as they talked a bit loud all things considered 
2. Loved the transition from "That's why we need a burglar" to Bilbo. Though it mystifies me how Azog found them so quickly without being able to track them (I wish they'd had an eagle's eyrie scene, maybe showing Thorin's cuts getting tended as well as other injuries from GT, but you run into talking eagles again) considering they flew there and didn't leave either tracks or scent. So a mix here.
3. Loved Beorn's chase, and him growling at the mountains- PERFECT book moment. Though I sometimes wonder if Beorn chased them in to attack or to protect them from the wargs, because of him standing guard instead of trying to get in another way to protect his animals from the intruders
4. I laughed HYSTERICALLY at the introduction scene- marvellous work by Mikael, Ian, and Martin! Plus our company- very nice alternative to the book  And I appreciate the lack of talking animals simply because I believe it's too Narnia-ish for ME. In fact, everything with Beorn is wonderful.
5. Azog/Sauron chat. Clever in the sense that I was curious how a "bodiless" Sauron would be depicted, but it really bugged me that they pulled Azog out of the movie at this point, as it really emphasized that it should have been Bolg all along
6. Mirkwood separation- I loved Gandalf, and his chat with Bilbo, though it seems a bit odd that they'd stop for a chat after the urgency in Gandalf's voice. I also love the subtle indication of time passage- the leaves are green when they enter the forest, and then you see brown leaves on the ground, showing that some time has passed. I also like the increasing raggedness of the company, and that they were doing ok while on the path, despite getting claustrophobic, but that the spore effect didn't begin until they left. It would be out of character for Thorin to have left due to a party in the woods, and it also seems equally stupid to me for elves to be picnicking in the forest with the spiders (heck, I hate spiders in my GARAGE, let alone my dining room!) so while I love the whimsicality in the book and the darkness of the forest, seeing as how it would be terrible to depict ten pitch black minutes in film, I think this was a clever alternative, even if I dislike the idea of stoned dwarves. BUT- rancid air can have a similar effect on the brain due to lack of enough oxygen-just enough to function, not enough to think clearly and feel fine rather than claustrophobic. But one cannot depict rancid air on screen very well if it is still clear, so the spores were a clever alternative.
7. Loved crossing the river to a point. Wood would have rotted in the time that road was vacant, I think, whereas vines in the woods would make sense. But it was still a bit cartoony. Still, a great character moment. Glad the stag was still in there.
8. LOVED the spiders (despite hating spiders in general) up to the point when elves join the fray. Disliked the elves' entry though- a bit overdone on stunts, especially Tauriel's entrance (seriously, not one single attempt to shoot one of five spiders with that many soldiers around? ). And surely Legolas would know about spiders becoming bolder, or is this a rare instance where he joins a patrol? Wouldn't he be the leader? Unless Tauriel was scouting the perimeter? But she wouldn't be alone surely- not with that many elves in the patrol. Loved how their search was far better than the goblins (who missed quite a bit). Liked Fili's arsenal and how even the elves missed some at first lol. Gloin's locket was nice, but the Gimli reference felt forced in.
9. Loved Bilbo's trying to enter the elven gate and the hint that Legolas heard him, but didn't see him. Straight from the book in many respects.
10. WHY OH WHY DIDN'T THE COMPANY GET BROUGHT BEFORE THRANDUIL?! Manure is this omission, I think!
11. Didn't like trousers comment- nor Legolas's comments about Kili's staring. Manure. BUT- I did like that the dwarves keep trying to get out lol. And how Balin informs them it's pointless to try
12. Thranduil vs Thorin- EXCELLENT except for the weird wound on Thranduil's face. The two stubborn kings are far more alike than they realize- probably why there is so much friction there But in all honesty, even in the book Thorin's stubbornness is what keeps them in the dungeons anyway, so it was a nice way to address this. And his hope that Bilbo is still out there- I would have liked to see more conversations between Beorn's and the elven kingdom to show the growing friendship, but alas it was not meant to be 
13. Tauriel and Thranduil- MANURE as her being the foil fell very flat and it made Thranduil out to be a heartless jerk and her to be the saint. BUT a tiny diamond in this scene is that Bilbo is sneaking around the palace, and Thranduil hears him I would have liked to see him swipe a glass of wine when their back is turned lol, but oh well
14. Feast of Starlight- OH MY GOSH MOST BEAUTIFUL SCENE IN THE FILMS. I like to call it the "Most Tolkienesque scene that Tolkien never wrote". It threw me straight to Cuvienen and the awakening of the elves so fast it wrenched my neck lol  If they'd left the "romance" to just this conversation and having the two of them come away in friendship and understanding and acceptance of the different cultures, instead of the initial hostility that was present in the forest (and could have been added to when they were put in the dungeons if the goo-goo eyes hadn't been present and innuendo had been worded differently to be hostility yet mixed with curiosity rather than sexual in nature). BUT- it does bug me that Tauriel was essentially committing treason here, AND GOT CAUGHT DOING IT, and didn't have any consequences. Even a simple "Don't try to become friends with them- it doesn't end well and is unbefitting your position as guard" admonition afterward would have satisified this. Other than her being caught conversationally fraternizing, I think it was gorgeous. And the music- oh my goodness it was lovely
15. Barrel escape- lovely, and I could even buy the orcs waiting outside for them to come out. BUT- I wish that Legolas hadn't pulled his twinkle toes on the dwarves' heads. I can buy him using them as rock skipping improvisation, as elves are light of foot and he does walk on snow, but the ballerina stunt was overdone IMO. Loved how the dwarves improvised and showed their mettle, and that Bombur however silly got a great moment But Legolas should have heard the orc come up behind him if he can hear a hobbit tiptoe through a gate
16. Dwarves and Bard- great, excellent, wouldn't change it
17. Orc interrogation- Manure. Thranduil must surely know or have a hint that the guy in Dol Guldur is a bad guy, and the whole thing was orchestrated to revolve around Tauriel's love life. Orc had no reason to tell her specifically that Kili was going to die. And with her trigger-dagger-finger, she shouldn't be allowed to carry arms until she learned more self control And I do not think the "wild but good" Thranduil would break a promise even to get information. Tolkien elves may be mean at times, but I cannot recall of them lying outright off the top of my head like that. I MIGHT expect that from Feanor, but not from Thranduil, even though an elf would find no compassion from elves other than the fact that elves are NOT orcs and won't sink that low. Stick him in a dungeon, or even execute him after they're done, but don't promise freedom and then rescind on it in such a vile way. That's not elves- that's orcs.
18. Gandalf at high fells- Great! It was creepy as I'll get out, but it's supposed to feel foul and uninviting, as the Nazgul had dwelt there for a long time. Though it does beg the age-old question of "What the heck was Gandalf doing in 60 years/80 years if he already knew that it was Sauron?!?!" But we'll never know that answer lol.
19. Entrance into Laketown- as gross as it would be to experience it (I pity the actors) that was a clever way to get them into Bard's house. The toilet might have been a bit much, but I can conceive of a toilet such as that being in Laketown as they wouldn't understand the idea of sewage (in fact, the Thames in London WAS the city's sewer for hundreds of years). Honestly, aside from the, erm, oysters that the master ate, I really have no complaint about the Laketown sequence for the most part. I thought it was very well done, it felt very realistic, and I love their portrayal of Bard, and though gross, the portrayal of the Master was also well done in making him the antithesis of Bard. And the prophecy gave me chills up my spine! Only thing I wish is that they'd shown the missing day- I think a LOT of richness in characterization and overall atmosphere could have been done with that.
20. Dwarves to the mountain- well done, but I do think the trip should have taken them longer. And some indication that they would have left sooner had they been able to come up with supplies quicker would have been nice (like "we need to go" and "it will take time to gather supplies. Come eat, drink and be merry" type of scene). I can see Thorin chafing at the delay with the way the movie went, and couldn't see him waiting in town voluntarily, so something to indicate that they had no choice would have been helpful. LOVED the thrush scene, though I doubt Thorin would have given up so quickly- a quick shot of him sinking down with his head in his hands just out of sight of Bilbo and breaking inside would have sufficed and taken no more than a second or two.
21. Door opening- OH MY GOODNESS. I cried. Plain and simple. I cried along with Balin- imagine coming home to a place you've only known alive and seeing it so dead after so long. The knowledge and memory of who was lost, of what was lost, of coming back HOME after so many years, Thorin's voice breaking with emotion, the sheer silence of the others in their awe and respecting their king's space as he sets foot inside the mountain for the first time in over 100 years or so- yeah, I cried. It was absolutely beautiful!
22. Tauriel and Legolas- I will go on the record and say nearly everything involving those two derailed starting about now. She clearly manipulates him into leaving Mirkwood with supposedly altruistic motives which we see, later on, were completely false. Everything she did from the moment she found Kili alive was for her "Kilikins", not to save the world from evil as she'd told Legolas (and got him to defy his father, and got him in the position of potentially being killed by Bolg as she effectively disobeyed his order to come with her and left her prince at the mercy of thirty orcs, more or less, thus leaving him without any bodyguard whatsoever and potentially endangering his life- she should have lost her head for that high treason, IMHO). Had her character continued on with this purpose- to fight against the rising evil, and not just for her "Kilikins", her character could have been MUCH better, more believable, and a greater overall character with feminine energy, not a sappy damsel in distress by the end of it all. This point I think is where Tauriel's character (that I liked a lot, for the most part) completely derailed into a total and awful Mary Sue. This scene would be a diamond if it were not for the following scenes that changed her motivation from altruistic to a manipulative...you know what. The following scenes render this scene obsolete and thus downgrade it to manure.
23. Kili's illness- EXCELLENT, though the mention of morgul likely misled the general audience (morgul, in elvish, can be translated as poison if you consider the origins of the two parts of the word, but when you encounter phrases like morgul blade in reference to the witch king and also with Frodo, it inadvertently places it in the same category as those which is entirely false). I loved how Bard is the only one that takes him in, that the master is fearful of contagion (without modern germ theory, perfectly done), and that Bard rifles through his meager stash of medicines for him. This also lends weight to Kili's protest of Thorin's treatment of the Laketowners- they all but saved his life (if Tauriel, though I hate that she does it, hadn't shown up when and where she did, he'd be dead and he knows it) because Bard took him in and had he been off in the wilderness, either the orcs would have caught up to them or there wouldn't have been athelas or he wouldn't have been found by Tauriel in time to be healed. Bard did nothing but help them, and in return...well, I can see why he'd be so angry. And the fight in Bard's house, despite elf involvement, was very gritty and probably one of the most realistic fights I've seen in ME.
24. Bilbo and Smaug- a gem (other than I can't figure out how he knew of Thorin's epithet, Oakenshield, or that Sauron planned to use him unless he'd sent messengers asking for his involvement for future events). Absolutely wonderful (as was Balin's escorting him partway down).
25. Reactions in Laketown to dragon's movement- excellent as well.
26. Legolas/Bolg fight- Manure. Shows Legolas to be a bit petty and like a spoilt teen- "You made me bleed- YOU WILL PAY!" I can see this being a PARODY cartoonof his "prettiness", not belonging in the film itself.
27. Thorin's entrance and beginning descent into dragon sickness- lovely. Like how it's gradual- one minute, he's Jekyll, the next he's Hyde, but more Jekyll than Hyde for now, and the proportion slowly switches to the Hyde of crazy Thorin.
28. Forgot to mention (how could I forget- I can't believe I did!) that I LOVE the "I belong with my brother" scene Very much a gem, and wish more were like this!
29. Smaug/dwarf fight- mix of manure and diamond. Some parts, like the wheelbarrow and snout standing are way over the top. But I liken the whole sequence to a human trying to squash a bunch of flies in a tight space that they can't maneuver in easily. The human vs fly itself means human would win in a heartbeat, BUT when you consider environment, size, and that the dwarves, especially Thorin, know that mountain (assuming the others studied old maps prior to the quest) it makes sense, except for those two spots. I love the imagery and foreshadowing on the idea that gold solves everything, the statue of Thorin's grandfather (and the silhouhette shot earlier) encased in pure gold really hints at what's to come, and Smaug the golden having it shimmer off him into the night- absolutely stellar.
This post has been very long (I am looking forward to getting my dvds back), so I'll delve into Battle of Five Armies later (possibly when the EE comes out).
But I believe that, when you look at the good diamonds in these films, as opposed to the manure, yes there is a bit more as the films go on (with BO5A having the most manure, I think), but the diamonds are there, and they are beautiful.
It's easy to complain about the manure, and easy to forget about the diamonds. But when PJ and Tolkien meet, the scenes are the ones that bring the books and overall story to life for me. That is why I grew to love Middle-earth through the films- because when I read the books, I SEE and HEAR the characters speaking, I SEE the scenery, I TRAVEL with them through ME in my mind as though I am there.
So despite my niggles, sometimes it takes not having the dvds on hand to truly appreciate the gems of these films. Maybe I'll go and watch LOTR now (and have a huge stack of tissues on hand for Mazarbul), or perhaps tomorrow, as it's almost 5 pm here. But I just wanted to go on the record to say:
Thank you PJ for bringing Middle-earth to life. You may not do it perfectly, you may even completely flub it at times, but without your vision and the talented cast and crew, I never would have even known Tolkien existed. So thank you!
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balbo biggins
Rohan
Aug 31 2015, 12:30am
Post #2 of 14
(2363 views)
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cant sit through alot of it now
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its funny becuase i think i could forgive everything that doesnt quite work about the films and really enjoy them as much as lotr if they hadnt added all the superfluous bits e.g alot of radagast, tauriel, alfrid, bolg, gundaband, worms etc etc
I just cant sit through them now without getting very annoyed at those bits and just giving up! its also feels very long, for me it starts from the get go with old looking frodo and cg young ian holm, and carries through untill you realise all those things that annoy you dont even get resolved! kinda like they didnt need them
so i understand what your saying, and agree but it is what it is for me, and I cant help disliking major parts of the films which make it hard to watch.
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Aug 31 2015, 12:52am
Post #3 of 14
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Couldn't have said it better myself :)
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*she says as she happily watches AUJ for the umpteenth time just because they happen to be showing it on TNT*
I don't think I have anything really to add, you covered it so well, but I agree! I gripe about stuff in these movies from time to time, but ultimately I enjoy them so much, the problems don't matter that much to me in the long run. And like you, if it weren't for these movies, I never would have fallen in love with Tolkien, rediscovered my hunger for reading, started fiction writing, or become a part of this wonderful community here on TORn. So, thanks PJ and Co.! I don't know where I'd be right now without you!
Lord I give you everything, Anything you want from me
Take my past and my future I lay it at your feet
Yeah, I'm after your heart, you've stolen mine
I give you my all 'cause you gave up your life
I'm not who I was simply because, Oh, you set me free
And you change me from what I used to be
Opened my eyes, now I can see
You're making this life so beautiful
So beautiful
~"Beautiful" by Dan Bremnes
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Aug 31 2015, 1:06am
Post #4 of 14
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Even though I have a lot of criticisms, very few of them actually prevent me from enjoying the films as a whole. The only things that really suck me out of the experience are Legolas's stunts at Ravenhill, some of Tauriel's lines towards the end, and the last few scenes with Alfrid (not necessarily because they're that bad on their own, but by the time we get to the end, Alfrid's scenes are just so repetitive).
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Kim
Valinor
Aug 31 2015, 4:29am
Post #5 of 14
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It's always nice to re-visit so many of these great scenes! I'd like to call out a couple of other things in the Rivendell scene in AUJ: the moon runes scene, and the EE scene when Thorin and Bilbo overhear Elrond's comments. The moon runes scene was so visually stunning with beautiful music (which was reprised when they opened the door in DOS) and the other was a really nice character moment addition, despite the hurt we see in Thorin's eyes at the comment.
The other general comment I always come back to is just the sheer visual beauty of these films. One thing I noticed when watching that trilogy promo clip was how well all 3 fit together visually. I watched my AUJ BR the other night, and the visuals always make me catch my breath. Even watching it in the TNT marathon is good (but not as good). Just today, seeing the deep green of Erebor in the prologue struck me again as a different and really beautiful realization of the dwarf city.
Thanks for the reminders of all the diamonds.
P.S. I thought the troll snot was funny. 
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CathrineB
Rohan
Aug 31 2015, 10:18am
Post #6 of 14
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AUJ is most of the time just a pure joy to watch for me. Some parts are a bit off yes I agree. Like I enjoy the stone giants, but it does take it a bit too far, but overall I love the movie. For me it's easily the best of the three.
I think the market place scene is a bit weird. The pillow ontop of the stack to make Bilbo belive it's Gandalf is But yeah it's based on a children's book so I let it go It's nice with some good old Shire scenes afterall.
I in general I love the scenes with the Lake Town Four dwarves (that's their unofficial group name) minus the elves joining in.
Smaug and Bilbo is gold. Literally. Perfect.
I quite like Smaug vs. the dwarves too, but I do wish more of Erebor was sets and mainly not just a giant green screen. It shows sometimes.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Aug 31 2015, 10:39am
Post #7 of 14
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For me it brings it home just how much I liked AUJ by comparison to the next two films. I thought practically every scene in AUJ was great. In DoS and BoFA I thought there were rather moments of greatness than overall greatness with a few duff things, as in AUJ. The things I thought were really great in DoS and BoFA were mainly moments involving Thorin (the major draw for me), Smaug (superb rendition), Bilbo (played absolutely right), Bard (very good expansion from the book character), Balin (brought depth and emotion to every little scene he appeared in) and Beorn (in DoS). However, as others have pointed out, they are rather drowned out by moments of sheer dross, PJ's unnecessary additions to the plot and deduction of things that would have made the films great, and the plot holes, all of which have been discussed in the past on this forum. 
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Aug 31 2015, 10:40am)
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Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan
Aug 31 2015, 10:41am
Post #8 of 14
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I really wanted to enjoy these films...
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...but I just can't!
Because they (the films) look fake and most of the characters are ridiculous - I just can't imagine them in the same world as the wonderful characters from LOTRS!
I have never seen a character butchered as bad as Legolas. He was awesome in the originals.
Good lord...
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 31 2015, 1:30pm
Post #9 of 14
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... and for someone who hasn't got the trilogy in hand you did a pretty good job of watching it in your head!
I see diamonds in all three films - some cut and polished like Silmarils, some less refined. There is the odd clunky piece of undistinguished rock around too but you always find that when hunting diamonds. I'd have said the same about LotR and after a decade of watching those films even the rocks have a familiar feel, like old friends. It's already becoming the same with The Hobbit - the more I see people ramble on about how they hate *** or *** or *** , the more posts I read in which people can't seem to say they like something without adding (at far greater length) that of course there are lots of things they DON'T like, the more I start to feel warm and friendly towards the rocks. I'm perverse like that.... 
I knew Tolkien existed decades before I knew Peter Jackson existed, and it's because the books have always been so important to me that I love the films. Of course there are things I would have done differently but then, I know my idea of the stories, I've lived with it all these years. Thanks to Peter Jackson and all the people who've worked with him on this I've had a long, absorbing chance to engage with someone else's vision of the stories and find things there that have enriched my own - and isn't that what art is all about?
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Susan
Bree
Aug 31 2015, 2:04pm
Post #10 of 14
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Wow! That was an impressive list...
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and I agree with most of it down to the letter! If I may add some things, and I'm not sure if you meant to include these scenes in Rivendell and Chase out of Goblin Town respectively, but Gandalf's speech to Galadriel about why he chose Bilbo, and Bilbo's speech to the Dwarves about helping them reclaim their home, also get me every single time :') Thank you too for your description of the Feast of Starlight scene as the "Most Tolkienesque scene that Tolkien never wrote"; those were exactly the words I was looking for! I remember sitting there in the theater just stunned, and then running home to look up the dialogue after the movie was over .
And overall, I'm just thankful that the movies exist, manure and all, because when we're in the mood we can always go pick out these diamonds. Thank you again for this list.
(This post was edited by Susan on Aug 31 2015, 2:09pm)
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Aug 31 2015, 2:07pm
Post #11 of 14
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I've done a few Hobbit marathons
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and it seems like I watch at least one of the movies every weekend. My hubby is SO SICK of them that I've been banished to the upstairs TV when I watch them (can't have anything to do with Thorin, could it?). I thought AUJ was near-perfection - the stone giants didn't bother me, as I guess that's what I pictured from the book, but I admit the Goblin-town scenes did go on a bit. BUT then you had Bilbo & Gollum, and it couldn't have been any better.
DOS I liked almost as well, the beginning where Gandalf met Thorin in Bree was a great addition, and I really think the Dol Goldur subplot added a lot to the story. I have to be different here, Kili's trousers comment didn't bother me at all, in fact I thought it was quite funny and not nearly as bad as when Bard said "I know her as well as any man in this town." I mean, come on! The Barrels scene is still probably my favorite scene in the movie, except for maybe Smaug's reveal. And yes, once again you had Bilbo & Smaug, Martin Freeman is just too good! He is Bilbo the way Ian is Gandalf, and yes, Richard is Thorin. They own their characters; they ARE their characters! That scene between Thorin and Thranduil is just so tense, no matter how many times I watch it I have to stop what I'm doing and pay attention (same with Thorin singing in Bag End). To me DOS had a good balance between some great action scenes and those quieter, one-to-one conversations like Thorin & Thranduil, Bilbo & Smaug, etc. Granted, the Dwarves v Dragon scene could have been better, but again, I actually liked that cliffhanger ending.
Of course, BOT5A has the most problems, which I blame mostly on the 144 minute runtime. I agree that too much time was spent on side characters at the expense of main characters (yeah, you know who I'm talking about). It's baffling to me that Smaug's attack on Laketown looked so good, but much of the battle just looked grey and unfinished. I LIKED Tauriel in DOS, but the forced love-story in BOT5A did her no favors. BUT you still have Thorin and Bilbo, and they raised this movie up from what could have been the gutter - I know it IS the gutter to some, but not to me. I watched it again last night, and I cried AGAIN! The ice-fight was not everyone's favorite, but I loved it! The part I hated the most - the ending, because it was over. And yes, I have to watch the credits and those wonderful sketches while listening to Billy Boyd's song every single time. One of these days I'll do the full 6 movie marathon, probably take all weekend but hey, it's Middle Earth after all!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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VeArkenstone
Lorien
Aug 31 2015, 4:51pm
Post #12 of 14
(1779 views)
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Great Post. I feel compelled to add that I am astounded, after
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finally watching BOFA a couple of times, that I have changed my opinion of it, and think it is pretty darn good. I saw it with a friend at the midnight showing on the first day it was released. Neither one of us thought it was a bad movie, but we think it was that good either. I was so disappointed. I finally bought a copy and watched it with the same friend. We were surprised to see these great scenes in the movie we did not remember seeing while at the theater. Granted, we were both tired from working all week, but we felt like we had missed half of the movie at the theatre. I truly, truly am looking forward to the extended version now. Life is strange.
Please, call me Ve.
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Hobbity Hobbit
Lorien
Aug 31 2015, 11:00pm
Post #13 of 14
(1623 views)
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I have to agree with you, I have to be honest that as much as I love the movie there are parts that I would have rather seen played out differently, but there are many scenes that are amazing and stand out. These films are truly some of the best in cinema, even if there parts that I'd never think I'd see in cinema (like an elf hanging off a bat taking out armies in the EE Trailer...)! There are still many many gems, and these gems are great!
"Obviously the idea of being human is a very human idea."
-Dominic Monaghan
(This post was edited by Hobbity Hobbit on Aug 31 2015, 11:00pm)
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joec_34
Rivendell
Sep 2 2015, 4:21pm
Post #14 of 14
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So, I had a hard time seeing the movie Elves singing "tra-la-lally" too, until Tauriel. She is young and idealistic, shows some real passion for those stars, and maybe could have even been carefree (if it weren't for how Mirky Greenwood had become.) I could see her or similar Elves singing "tra-la-lally" after a few glasses of that (super) strong wine.
"Happy painting and God bless, my friend." - Bob Ross
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