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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Still not sure where Ravenhill is
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Aug 30 2015, 10:11pm

Post #1 of 38 (7142 views)
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Still not sure where Ravenhill is Can't Post

So I'm re-watching BOT5A right now, and I always assumed that the area the Dwarves & Bilbo stood on to watch Smaug was Ravenhill. But I'm just now realizing they're not on the tower, and there's no waterfall, so where are they? And where is Ravenhill? Is the waterfall that's to the right of the Gate the same one by Ravenhill? Maybe someone with a Weta design book will be kind enough to fill me in?

Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association


MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien

Aug 30 2015, 10:19pm

Post #2 of 38 (7071 views)
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There are several spurs on Erebor [In reply to] Can't Post

The book identifies Ravenhill as being the "southern" spur, but the map (which is also used in the movie), shows two spurs which are on the south side. Either one would be a good vantage point for looking at Laketown.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 30 2015, 10:40pm

Post #3 of 38 (7041 views)
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Thranduil's Map [In reply to] Can't Post

According to the map possessed by Thranduil (on which Bilbo places the Arkenstone), Ravenhill is moved from where Tolkien placed it to just north of Dale on the western side of the river. It is on an outcropping jutting from the ridge just to the west of Dale. A good image of the map can be seen just after the introduction to Jude Fisher's TH:BotFA Visual Companion. There is another map on the page opposite that sheds a slightly different perspective on the Lonely Mountain; it also shows the same location for Ravenhill.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 30 2015, 11:21pm

Post #4 of 38 (7012 views)
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So in the movies... [In reply to] Can't Post

Which moments actually take place on Ravenhill?


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Aug 30 2015, 11:33pm

Post #5 of 38 (6999 views)
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It is on Ravenhill [In reply to] Can't Post

you are to low to see the tower and you can't see the waterfall from here. But it is Ravenhill.


MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien

Aug 30 2015, 11:53pm

Post #6 of 38 (6991 views)
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Hmm, Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

Doesn't Thrain's map in the film show the Mountain the same as on Tolkien's?


CathrineB
Rohan


Aug 31 2015, 1:15am

Post #7 of 38 (6946 views)
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I figured... [In reply to] Can't Post

That yes when the dwarves watch Lake Town burn they're at some place on Ravenhill because I do believe we see Dale between them and the lake? Like we see later in the movie too?

Also, doesn't Thrandy and his army arrive from somewhere in the same direction as Ravenhill at the start of AUJ? Not at Ravenhill, but like... next to it?

I don't know, on the map the Lonley Mountain kinda looks like a tree trunk with the roots spreading out and Ravenhill is on one of them. Or am I completely off?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 31 2015, 1:41am

Post #8 of 38 (6931 views)
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On Ravenhill [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Which moments actually take place on Ravenhill?




I'm not going to try to go into all of them, but Bilbo and the Dwarves seem to be watching Smaug's attack on Lake-town from Ravenhill. And note that when Thorin charges Ravenhill with Fili, Kili and Dwalin, Gandalf indicates that they are north of Dale.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Avandel
Half-elven


Aug 31 2015, 1:41am

Post #9 of 38 (6930 views)
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How about WHAT it is, too.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I assume it's a watchtower, but it seems fairly extensive - bigger than Weathertop for instance - like a garrison and watchtower combined - or it was - or was this a remnant that either pre-dates Erebor (tho re the Chronicles books it sounds as though Erebor was built over centuries) or was simply abandoned at some point?Unsure


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 31 2015, 1:43am

Post #10 of 38 (6929 views)
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Thrain's Map [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Doesn't Thrain's map in the film show the Mountain the same as on Tolkien's?




Yes. This suggests that the prop was produced before the final location in the films for Ravenhill was determined.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea

Aug 31 2015, 11:01am

Post #11 of 38 (6783 views)
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in the book raven hill is a watcher tower [In reply to] Can't Post

Just that and its on the extreme of one of the spurs of the mountain, and yes, in botfa Bilbo and the othrs see Laketown fall on ravenhill

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true

Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer

Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero



Bracegirdle
Valinor


Aug 31 2015, 12:21pm

Post #12 of 38 (6749 views)
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Here's a map [In reply to] Can't Post

that seems to be pretty accurate (to the book at least).
Not sure where I got this, so can't give credit...
Erebor photo Erebor_1.jpg

Boromir looked in surprise at Bilbo, but the laughter died on his lips when he saw that all the others regarded the old hobbit with grave respect. Only Glóin smiled, but his smile came from old memories.
-JRR Tolkien


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 31 2015, 2:59pm

Post #13 of 38 (6688 views)
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Map is by Karen Wynn Fonstad [In reply to] Can't Post

And Thror's map from AUJ shows Ravenhill in pretty much the same location as Fonstad's (click on the image to enlarge):





This also agrees with Tolkien's text from The Hobbit. Jackson's change in TH:BotFA is to move Ravenhill from the end of the Ridge to a point north of Dale, between the ruined city and the Front Gate of Erebor.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 31 2015, 3:00pm)


ThorinsNemesis
Lorien

Aug 31 2015, 4:19pm

Post #14 of 38 (6653 views)
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Map possessed by Thranduil? [In reply to] Can't Post

I never paid attention to it in the movie, because I couldn't see much on it Unsure Does anyone know if I can find a good-quality picture of that map on the Net, and if yes, where?



Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 31 2015, 4:32pm

Post #15 of 38 (6649 views)
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Sorry... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Does anyone know if I can find a good-quality picture of that map on the Net, and if yes, where?



I haven't found one yet; I've been hoping that Weta would release it as a collectable. Try any site that offers Fisher's TH:BotFA Visual Companion and includes a preview with interior pages. The map appears on page 6.

The other (topographical?) map is on page 7. It provides English-language names for the topographical features of the Mountain. The spur to the west of Dale is named Ravenwing Ridge, and the place where Ravenhill is more traditionally located is instead called Birdseye Tor. Those hames seem to also appear on Thranduil's map in Sindarin (or at least in Elven characters). Again, Ravenhill is depicted north of Dale.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 31 2015, 4:32pm)


ThorinsNemesis
Lorien

Aug 31 2015, 6:43pm

Post #16 of 38 (6599 views)
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Preview of the Visual companion... [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't find any sites that offer a Preview of any of its pages Unsure Do you have any links to such sites?



Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 31 2015, 6:46pm

Post #17 of 38 (6597 views)
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I'm afraid not. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was hoping that someone might have better luck than I have had. If you don't want to purchase a copy of the book, try your local library system (or an e-book format?).

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


ThorinsNemesis
Lorien

Aug 31 2015, 6:56pm

Post #18 of 38 (6589 views)
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Yeah... [In reply to] Can't Post

I may try that if I don't find something on the Net Smile



PryftanAW
Bree


Aug 31 2015, 7:05pm

Post #19 of 38 (6589 views)
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Thranduil's map HQ [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Does anyone know if I can find a good-quality picture of that map on the Net, and if yes, where?


Here is a link to Thranduil's map in good Quality:
http://www.wallsauce.com/...13375_degd_hobb3.jpg


Eruonen
Half-elven


Aug 31 2015, 7:50pm

Post #20 of 38 (6562 views)
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Remembering that our North is East on this map.... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.nicholastam.ca/...rors-map-endleaf.jpg

If you rotate it you will see the one spur on the south with a bit of a pointed knob.....I assume it is Ravenhill.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 31 2015, 8:03pm

Post #21 of 38 (6557 views)
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That's it! [In reply to] Can't Post

It is indeed. Thank you very, very much! I do think that there was one, final alteration where Ravenhill's outcropping was still a part of the ridge. Otherwise, that map is right on. And you can also see where Tolkien located Ravenhill some ways to the south (at what is now Birdseye Tor).

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 31 2015, 8:07pm

Post #22 of 38 (6554 views)
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Thrain's Map [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If you rotate it you will see the one spur on the south with a bit of a pointed knob.....I assume it is Ravenhill.



If you mean at the end of the ridge to the west (below) the river then, yes, that is where Professor Tolkien placed Ravenhill. I believe that there is a knob or rise at the end of the spur to the east as well. If you look at the map in AUJ (and the epilogue) and compare it with this version, you can see how the location of the Secret Door was also altered.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 31 2015, 8:10pm)


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Aug 31 2015, 8:20pm

Post #23 of 38 (6540 views)
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Oh how odd - I can now see why you have been saying what you were saying about its location. [In reply to] Can't Post

But it definitely isn't where the blob on this map is in the actual films.


Avandel
Half-elven


Aug 31 2015, 8:27pm

Post #24 of 38 (6529 views)
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Thank you! (: [In reply to] Can't Post

Seeing the end from Ravenhill *sigh*


http://www.deviantart.com/art/Thorin-Oakenshield-and-the-Arrival-of-the-Eagles-542573951


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 31 2015, 8:42pm

Post #25 of 38 (6527 views)
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Yes. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thrain's map in the Hobbit films is rendered more finely than in the book. I would say that the original site for Ravenhill is probably a little farther down from the large knob of rock even nearer to the end of the ridge. However, this might be debatable too. Either site might work and the knob might even provide both a better vantage point and better defense.




"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock

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