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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 27 2015, 5:19am
Post #1 of 38
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Thorin, Kili, and the Elves...
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One thing is made clear about Thorin and Kili they each have a different opinion when it comes to elves. Thorin holds a grudge toward them, while Kili is fascinated by them. However, through three films not once do Thorin and Kili have a discussion/open disagreement about elves. Never does Thorin say to Kili that his interest in elves is odd for a dwarf, at the same time Kili never urges to Thorin to put his bitterness aside and give the elves a chance. I see no reason the believe that they are ignorant of each other's feelings, as both are open - especially Thorin - about their animosity or attraction toward the elves. I simply think, for some reason, they choose to avoid the topic.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Aug 27 2015, 6:41am
Post #2 of 38
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Many IMO potentially interesting conversations and moments never happened in these films, or they happened and were not used. The closest thing I guess to what you mention is Kili saying the Laketowners had lost everything.
One thing that bothers me with these kind of gaps is never seeing Fili or another dwarf relating the events of Laketown. We know Thorin knows, because he calls Bard the dragonslayer and even dragon sick Thorin seems tolerant of Bard. But, for me, what would Thorin have said, possibly, to cause Fili and Kili to simply look on when Bard shows up? To me that doesn't seem like Fili or Kili, who strike me as warmhearted types. Nor does Bilbo ever argue that this is a good man who took them in. To me that's not logical re the characters, unless Thorin had made a good argument - if only to point out that Bard was paid to help them, that one man's kindness doesn't change much, and so on
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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 27 2015, 9:42am
Post #3 of 38
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Conversations that never happened.
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Yes, I was also surprised that the Dwarves never really discussed what had happened in Laketown other than Kili's short remarks about them having lost everything. Apparantly there was something shot - as PB mentioned that Bofur needed to see what went down there and that it will have consequences in BotFA.
What is really weird - imho - is that the Dwarves at Erebor do not react to the fact that four of them are in the inferno while watching it. When Bilbo meets them he could have at least expressed some sort of relief (and even surprise) that they are all well.
In respect to the Elves, I also think that this could have used another layer... little things are there (one can guess that Fili, for example, is not too happy about Kili's fascination with Tauriel when he watches them before leaving the refugee camp).
One could argue that Thorin is so caught up with reaching the mountain that he never realizes what influence their time in the Woodland Realm had on Kili... but imho it might have added a lot to the story if there would have been a conversation between them, for example on the boat on their way to Laketown... can they trust Men who are trading partners of the Elves? Kili intervening saying that Legolas and Tauriel helped them escape from the Orcs... Thorin arguing against it etc. Not a must-have but nice EE material...
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Earl
Forum Admin
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Aug 27 2015, 10:00am
Post #4 of 38
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I definitely missed those conversations in these films
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LOTR had a lot of great dialogue between the main characters, and even though much was plot exposition, it lent a lot of weight to the story and the characters.
The conversation between Gandalf and Denethor is one great example of those elevated moments in LOTR - it wasn't just smart movie writing, it was like watching a play unfold on screen.
AUJ did have some of that, with Gandalf and Galadriel, Gandalf and Elrond, Bilbo and Elrond, and of course, Gandalf and Bilbo. DOS EE had some nice moments such as the exchange between Gandalf and Beorn. It showed you a different side of these characters. It gave you a sense that there were greater, more knowledgeable beings in the world of Middle-earth, who were concerned with far greater matters than a Dwarven quest for gold or reclaiming their homeland.
I can only hope that BOFA EE has more of these conversations. I liked the small exchange between Legolas and Tauriel at Gundabad. It served to expand the story of the Elves in an unforeseen way.
Actually, I also missed the monologues in the Hobbit. There were many great monologues in LOTR, especially in TTT, like Saruman's palantir scene, Galadriel's telepathic exchange with Elrond, and Elrond's talk with Arwen about Aragorn's death. Actually, even Arwen's small recital in ROTK over Anduril's reforging was a lovely scene.
Seriously, where did the old PJ, Fran, and Philippa go? 
The Hobbit Soundtracks - Being an online archive of information concerning Howard Shore's score for The Hobbit films. Exclusive content from The Battle of the Five Armies is in the works.
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CathrineB
Rohan
Aug 27 2015, 10:13am
Post #5 of 38
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Some of the most amazing moments in LotR are the smaller ones between characters. Those heartfelt moments with Howard Shore's stunning score playing in the background. It's such a pity that wasn't allowed in the Hobbit to the same extend. Because really, those that are in the Hobbit are wonderful :/
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 27 2015, 11:42am
Post #6 of 38
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Into Bilbo's conversation with Gandalf in Bag End.... Thorin's exchange with Balin over the need to go to Erebor.... Bilbo's conversation with Gandalf on the journey which introduced us to Radagast..... Gandalf and Bilbo with Sting, and the importance of sparing lives.... Gandalf and Bilbo on the magic of Rivendell.... Elrond and Bilbo..... Gandalf and Elrond - the conversation Bilbo and Thorin overhear..... Galadriel and Gandalf...... Bilbo and Gollum.....
Gandalf talks to Beorn.... Bilbo, Thorin and the white stag.... Legolas and Orcrist.... Thranduil and Thorin.... Kili and Tauriel (Feast of Starlight).... Thranduil and Tauriel.... Balin and Bard.... Bilbo and Dwalin on Bard's boat.... Bard and Alfrid... "This, Master Baggins, is the world of men"..... The Master and Alfrid.... Thorin, Bard, Balin reacting to the sight of the windlance.... Thorin telling Kili to stay in Laketown and Fili's reaction..... Thorin and Balin before the secret door..... Thorin and Bilbo when the door can't be opened.... Thorin and Balin on entering the mountain.... Bilbo and Smaug..... Bilbo and Thorin.... Thorin and Smaug.... Fili and Bard.... Smaug and Bilbo....
The interplay of gestures and expressions between Bilbo and the dwarves as they watch the disaster at Laketown may be almost wordless but it speaks volumes........ Bard and Bain...... Bard and Thranduil.... Gandalf and Thranduil.... Bilbo and Balin..... Bilbo and Thorin (the acorn).... Thorin and Dwalin.... Bilbo, Thranduil and Bard...... Bard and Thorin....... Bilbo and Thorin....... Gandalf and Thorin at the gate....... Legolas and Tauriel at Gundabad...... Thorin and Kili after Thorin has come back to himself...... Legolas and Gandalf.... Bilbo and Gandalf, when Bilbo insists on going to Ravenhill..... Thorin's last conversation with his nephews...... Hilda's decision to fight.... Bilbo's last conversation with Thorin...... Thranduil and Legolas....... Bilbo's wordless conversation with Gandalf..... Bilbo's parting from the dwarves...... Bilbo's parting from Gandalf....... Bilbo and the auctioneer...
There are more, but my head's spinning remembering them all and the time's running on. Now, monolgues... How about these, to name just a few:
Bilbo tells the story of Erebor - Balin tells the story of Azanulbizar - Bilbo talks to the dwarves about his reasons for wanting to help them - Beorn and the dwarves - Gandalf remembers/hears Galadriel at the eaves of Mirkwood - Bard recites the prophecy - Thorin reacts to the dead dwarves - Smaug taunting Bard - Dain taunting Thranduil
The old Peter Jackson, Fran and Philippa haven't gone anywhere. Seems to me it's the fans who've turned on them. Nothing ever happens the same way twice. This time they took on a project that was heading for the rocks and made it happen, with limited time and a daunting list of problems. But all the magic, all the love for what they do, all the special moments are still there, if you look...
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 27 2015, 12:56pm
Post #7 of 38
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One question: who is Hilda? I know who Tilda is, but I have no clue who Hilda is.
I think what most of us are referring to are those moments that offer a deeper understanding of who these characters are as individuals - i.e. 'Feast of Starlight', 'I belong with my brother', the Acorn scene - not those where the underlying focus is the journey, battle, or politics of Middle Earth - i.e. Gandalf and Elrond, Bard and Thranduil.
Don't get me wrong the latter is equally as important as the former and there are quite a few insightful character moments throughout the trilogy, though as the story progresses there seem to be fewer. And it's not that anyone - at least myself - is ungrateful for those moments that are present in the films, because I am happy to have them (though there are a one or two I could do without), but they are great moments and I - for one - would like to see more.
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Earl
Forum Admin
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Aug 27 2015, 1:01pm
Post #8 of 38
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But all the magic, all the love for what they do, all the special moments are still there, if you look...
This right here is the problem with these films - you have to look for those special moments. I admit they're there, but they're few and far between, lost amid a plethora of needless distractions. Of course, LOTR had some of those needless moments too, but, I can tell you that I have to put more of an effort to like the Hobbit films than I ever had to for the LOTR films.
I don't know that fans pointing out their dissatisfaction can or should be classified as them "turning on" PJ, Fran, and Philippa. Maybe that's what some fans really have come to, or maybe they haven't but that's how it's being perceived. I, at least, don't mean it that way. If the filmmakers were my friends, I'd see my criticism as me telling them how I truly feel about their work. I wouldn't tell them their work is perfect just to make them happy.
In the end, I'm grateful we got the Hobbit films at all, and of course I like them, but I can't deny (even to myself, who's been a defendant of these films from the beginning), that they do have a lot of rather obvious flaws.
Having said all of that, I can't wait to watch the BOFA EE this Christmas, and the final appendices over the rest of the holidays. It'll be a bittersweet feeling; reminiscent of 2014 for sure.
The Hobbit Soundtracks - Being an online archive of information concerning Howard Shore's score for The Hobbit films. Exclusive content from The Battle of the Five Armies is in the works.
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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 27 2015, 1:07pm
Post #9 of 38
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But all the magic, all the love for what they do, all the special moments are still there, if you look... This right here is the problem with these films - you have to look for those special moments. I admit they're there, but they're few and far between, lost amid a plethora of needless distractions. Of course, LOTR had some of those needless moments too, but, I can tell you that I have to put more of an effort to like the Hobbit films than I ever had to for the LOTR films. I don't know that fans pointing out their dissatisfaction can or should be classified as them "turning on" PJ, Fran, and Philippa. Maybe that's what some fans really have come to, or maybe they haven't but that's how it's being perceived. I, at least, don't mean it that way. If the filmmakers were my friends, I'd see my criticism as me telling them how I truly feel about their work. I wouldn't tell them their work is perfect just to make them happy. In the end, I'm grateful we got the Hobbit films at all, and of course I like them, but I can't deny (even to myself, who's been a defendant of these films from the beginning), that they do have a lot of rather obvious flaws. Having said all of that, I can't wait to watch the BOFA EE this Christmas, and the final appendices over the rest of the holidays. It'll be a bittersweet feeling; reminiscent of 2014 for sure.
And I specifically also sign the last paragraph. Despite all the negativity, the discussing and the ranting - I will still be sad to say good-bye to this movieverse and thank PJ & Co for bringing their vision to life (and then continue grumbling about them  ).
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 27 2015, 1:14pm
Post #11 of 38
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... I actually thought she was a brilliant invention and a good way to give the Lake-towners a face and character.
Speaking of "little character moments" that were imho clearly missing (and had - overall - a pretty negative effect on my perception of the entire trilogy) are little things between the Dwarves. And the frustrating thing is that we know of several of them that seem to have been filmed but never found their way into the movie.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Aug 27 2015, 1:19pm)
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 27 2015, 1:15pm
Post #12 of 38
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Many IMO potentially interesting conversations and moments never happened in these films, or they happened and were not used.
AT and DO both mentioned filming a scene that takes place sometime after the healing scene that is suppose to be a brotherly moment between Fili and Kili. DO has also said a follow up to the 'I belong with my brother' scene was a,so filmed.
One thing that bothers me with these kind of gaps is never seeing Fili or another dwarf relating the events of Laketown. We know Thorin knows, because he calls Bard the dragonslayer and even dragon sick Thorin seems tolerant of Bard. But, for me, what would Thorin have said, possibly, to cause Fili and Kili to simply look on when Bard shows up? To me that doesn't seem like Fili or Kili, who strike me as warmhearted types.
I agree there is - or should be - a moment missing that would explain why Kili and especially Fili are so passive toward Thorin in regards to Bard and the Lake-men.
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Earl
Forum Admin
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Aug 27 2015, 1:16pm
Post #13 of 38
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Let's hope the coming years bring us some Hobbit soundtrack goodies
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I'm holding out hope for the Complete Recordings (although some of my ravens tell me they're unlikely to happen), but I know for sure that Doug is writing his book on The Music of the Hobbit Films.
That book should give us some great insights into how the music was written to thematically, and lyrically, complement the films, and will be yet another way for us to appreciate their making.
The Hobbit Soundtracks - Being an online archive of information concerning Howard Shore's score for The Hobbit films. Exclusive content from The Battle of the Five Armies is in the works.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 27 2015, 1:23pm
Post #15 of 38
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You'll never see the magic in anything, film, book or real life, if you don't look!
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Dcole4
Rohan
Aug 27 2015, 1:48pm
Post #16 of 38
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They shot another scene between Fili and Kili after the healing scene? Do you happen to have a source handy?
If so that is so upsetting. It's moments like that that would help balance the film out more. I think a big part of why so many people "complain" about the elves is the fact they get preferential treatment in terms of screentime. If the balance was equal, and they maintained the same level of characterization from AUJ, I think the criticisms would be a lot quieter. I think a Fili/Kili scene at the end of DOS would have gone a long way.
EDIT: http://collider.com/aidan-turner-dean-ogorman-the-hobbit-desolation-of-smaug-interview/ DO and AT talk about deleted scenes, specifically how many of the Fili / Kili scenes in Laketown were chopped. What a disappointment. I can understand the intentions of not wanting to overstuff the film with the POV of all 13 dwarves but Fili and Kili are so important to the story. The fact that they are the heirs to Thorin's throne is hardly mentioned or used for dramatic effect, it is only occasionally off-handedly brought up. It's unfortunate that material like this, that is relevant to the story and the characterization of important characters, is cut. I can totally understand why they'd cut perhaps a Bombur joke or a Bifur rumble, etc, but the Fili/Kili stuff is really hard to get.
(This post was edited by Dcole4 on Aug 27 2015, 1:56pm)
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Avandel
Half-elven
Aug 27 2015, 3:11pm
Post #17 of 38
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not turned on IMO - HUNGRY, rather....
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The old Peter Jackson, Fran and Philippa haven't gone anywhere. Seems to me it's the fans who've turned on them. Nothing ever happens the same way twice. This time they took on a project that was heading for the rocks and made it happen, with limited time and a daunting list of problems. But all the magic, all the love for what they do, all the special moments are still there, if you look...
True enough IMO, and also for me the Hobbit films have some of the most beautiful moments ever put on camera - Thorin and Balin at Bag End - IMO flawless acting - Gandalf and Bilbo at Bag End - the song; the entry to Erebor; Smaug - seeing as these became my favorite films I'd have no problem at all prostrating myself at Peter Jackson's bare feet in gratitude. 
(Sometimes I like to freak myself out thinking if PJ had chosen another actor for Thorin or Balin or Dwalin ("you were always my king" - Graham McTavish is another IMO who is just SO good) - kind of tormenting myself for fun. Like thinking if the line "if this is to end in fire" had never been written...but then, you know, it just gets too painful and I need to think of something else.)
I hear what you are saying - but, I think what some of us mourn is that breathing space that was in LOTR or at least for me, seemed to be. At the moment, I am thinking of the pace of Pippin knocking the bucket into the well within Moria and the time that Gandalf spent reading from the book. That's just one scene, but at no time through it did I feel it was tightened down and rushed through. It has the right "beat" IMO.
As an off-the-cuff comparison, the mithril shirt scene - beautiful, and the core of it I think stays intact. But for me that's a pivotal moment - an exquisite artifact that is present through two series and also symbolic - so I would have given that just a bit more time in pacing - more entry to the scene? - maybe even colored the scene a bit with Thorin actually pulling the shirt from some carved chest or wherever it was - that maybe intriguingly had elvish symbols carved into it.
And also - a lot of what you mention is not the dwarves, or interaction between them - like what happened to that quick scene in an AUJ preview of Gloin holding a coin up? Later in DOS we see Gloin getting mentioning "his investment" but that IMO is just a quick nod to a backstory we never saw - e.g. we never did get those character moments that are so enriching.
A particular one for me being the lack of just a quiet moment after Bilbo saves Thorin, didn't have to be much of anything - but Thorin evidently has so much faith in Bilbo ("not out only hope") and thinks enough of him to find and gift him with an heirloom beyond price. We can interpolate a lot, sure. But Aragorn and Boromir have a quiet moment - so we see the pressures that Boromir is under, that I think in LOTR we see that Boromir does in fact accept Aragorn as his king "the lords of Gondor have returned" and I think we see Aragon contemplating the White City through the eyes of someone who loves it, in that moment.
I suppose we see a bit of that kind of thing with the acorn scene, but we never see Thorin and Bilbo's relationship build really IMO - only the "highlights" and the same is true with Bilbo and the dwarves - tho he travels "far with these dwarves" - I mean just a few minutes of character detail!
We already know the pressures Thorin is under - but for me it would have been nice to have a moment around a campfire with the dwarves, maybe with Oin dabbing at Thorin w. some potion after the carrock and Thorin blowing him off, Bilbo and Thorin talking (maybe the rumored speech about the fireflies that starred the ceilings of Erebor, when Thorin was growing up), seeing Nori idly pitching his knives while Dori looks on in disapproval, some funny moment with food between Bombur, Bofur and Bifur, and so on. Something like that could have been tucked in right before Bilbo is sent to check things out in DOS.
Dwarves, dwarves....we see Boromir playing with Pippin and Merry, but we never see the dwarves showing Bilbo swordplay which IMO would have been logical. And elves - the loss of the feast and how it might have been, watching an actor like Martin Freeman steal food.
And whatever went on on set - it's just hard after seeing the "missing" Thranduil/dwarves scene which for me "shockingly" PJ didn't view as necessary - IMO even for a general audience I think that kind of thing would have been enjoyable (William Kircher is wonderful in the look he gives Tauriel and EL cracks me up there, even if it is just a second LOL) - the scruffy dwarves and the snooty Mountain King - it's great stuff *cries at the thought*.
Well, anyway, as you say, nothing is going to be done the same way twice, and too, this was different starting material that IMO was very difficult to pull off on screen, with its whimsy on the one hand, and dark undercurrent on the other. I suppose that's somewhat true of LOTR but for me there's quite a different tone, from the start, of LOTR, book and films (IMO logically).
But it does to me feel frustratingly as tho the Hobbit films were cut to the bone in SOME cases, giving just enough for the narrative. Which was successful, in telling a story. But it's like a book I am reading by a new independent author - IMO it's a fresh fantasy treatment with interesting characters and stresses - but I wish the author would slow down and color things a bit more, for my imagination (tho I don't mean entire pages of what kind of tea someone is drinking, and where it came from, and how the leaves were harvested, and like that).
And you know, it's a compliment too that some folks would like more details. That's success to me, that people are interested!
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Avandel
Half-elven
Aug 27 2015, 3:23pm
Post #18 of 38
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I agree there is - or should be - a moment missing that would explain why Kili and especially Fili are so passive toward Thorin in regards to Bard and the Lake-men.
Kili I suppose we could say was so ill, and to his credit Aidan is limping a bit and looks ill all the way into Erebor, but Fili and Oin for sure know how bad things were, and I am thinking of Bard desperately searching through his medications for Kili -
Bard never even shows the slightest hostility when the mountain shakes, to these dwarves in his own home "there is nowhere to go..."
I just think logically Thorin would have had to have said SOMETHING - like telling Fili to look around at the halls of his ancestors, his legacy, what he will rule, that if they don't establish themselves now, they will be overrun with men and elves now that the dragon is gone, and so on. And Bard doesn't acknowledge Fili or Kili either - I think Fili and Bard would have exchanged some sort of LOOK, even a sorrowful one, even with Thorin standing there.
Instead Fili looks #Majestic - but as concerned as Fili was about his brother and Thorin (like Thorin is about his men, really, self-sacrificing to the point of being suicidal or maybe just being a dwarf) - seems to me Fili would be honorable and remember that kind of kindness, and Oin and Bofur as well (again Kili having been too ill to remember a lot, but I think he seems goodhearted too).
Anyway that kind of bugs me, re Fili.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Aug 27 2015, 4:25pm
Post #20 of 38
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I think you have to look closely at Fili and Kili - they are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. It's likely they do have sympathy for Bard, and probably they are really put off by their uncle's behavior, but he IS both their uncle and their King, so no, they aren't going to say anything to him at that time. But later, when Bilbo is questioning Thorin, you DO see a concerned look on Fili's face, kind of like "what the heck are we doing?" And that scene right before, where the entire company is lined up and looking at Thorin after he turns away from Bard, well, none of them look too happy about it. But they are Dwarves, and Thorin is their King. As Bilbo said, they are "loyal to a fault." So to me, they are perfectly in character by NOT saying anything. These same Dwarves are also loyal to Bilbo, and refuse to "throw him from the Ramparts." So to me it's fine. We might LIKE for them to act differently, but that would actually be out of character - at least that's the way I see it.
Notice how smug Thorin looks in this pic. Hard to tell what Kili is thinking, but Fili almost looks like he's trying to hide behind that stone.
And does ANYONE look happy or supportive here? Balin looks resigned to bad things happening, Ori looks shocked and Dori looks disgusted. Fili's a little hard to read, but Kili looks a bit angry here, yet still won't say anything because he is, after all, a loyal Dwarf.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 27 2015, 5:08pm
Post #21 of 38
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it is a rare occurrence when I do not understand where you are coming from. That said, I understand your reasoning behind Kili's reaction toward Bard.
To me it is not only odd that Fili does not at least exchange a look with Bard, but that he - who already stood up to Thorin and is well aware of Bard's hospitality and the suffrage of the Lake-men - does not support Kili when his brother confronts Thorin about the helping the people of Lake-town. A scene such as the one we are referring to would not only explain Fili's reaction toward Bard, but his passiveness toward Thorin as well.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 27 2015, 5:22pm
Post #22 of 38
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http://collider.com/...-of-smaug-interview/[/relpy] I am so glad you found that link because, to be honest, it was sometime after they completed pickups that I first heard of it and I was not certain if I would be able to find the source. Anyway, I do believe there is still a chance - albeit a grain of salt size chance - that we may get this moment in the BOTFA EE. When Tauriel enters Bard's house at the opening of the film it looks as if Fili and Kili had been talking. If that is indeed the case, I think that missing moment may be that scene.
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Aug 27 2015, 6:32pm
Post #23 of 38
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Why do they think cutting this stuff out is a good idea? What's the point of EE's if they aren't even going to give us scenes like that? Hopefully some of it ends up in BotFA EE, but I doubt it.
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Dcole4
Rohan
Aug 27 2015, 6:49pm
Post #24 of 38
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It baffles me. They're willing to spend millions to complete the visual effects of major action scenes (Chariot sequence, etc.) but they couldn't be bothered to put back more character moments.
I think it sadly has to do with the fact that they don't "extend" many scenes as much as they just re-insert cut sequences. I don't know if its a budget thing or a "I crafted a tight version of this scene and am moving on" thing, but I wish the Hobbit EEs allowed scenes to flow a little slower and insert some more of the secondary dwarves. This Fili stuff in particular sounds promising, it's upsetting it didn't make it in.
Onwards to the BOTFA EE, things we know there are more of:
1) The Laketown Four return / looking for the Arkenstone. This scene felt very awkwardly short, where the dwarves are re-united. As if only the beginning of the scene was kept and the rest was lopped off. I hope they put a few lines back in, PB in particular stressed it was important Bofur saw the Laketown devestation, hopefully this is where we can see Thorin rally his company to his cause, leading to the scene in which we see the Arkenstone search.
2) More to the counting room where Thorin picks up the gems, there are shots in the Chronicles book that show Ori and Gloin counting coins and Balin making a list. I truly hope this scene makes it in.
3) Bofur / Bilbo, a great bookend moment to their scene in AUJ. I'd be shocked if this doesn't make the EE
4) Rampart - There is an edit in the TE, where Balin is right beside Thorin before Dain's entrance. I hope we get to see their conversation. Also of note is the fact there is music on the soundtrack that is meant to underly a 30 second or so exchange. Likely this cut scene was there.
5) Thorin tells the dwarves to "stand down." This scene is incredibly odd. The dialogue is entirely ADR. None of the actors can be seen saying these lines (i.e. "I'm going over the wall') I'm hopeful that they'll extend this scene or restore it to what it should be. As it stands it incredibly awkward. Could be a very nice place to see the dwarves actually being characters opposed to background artists.
At the end of the day. I really just want to get a sense of closure from what was established in AUJ with the company. I'm not looking for a big monologue from Oin, or a story about the Blue Mountains from Bofur. I'm looking for these characters to actually react to the situation around them, this is the most important part of their journey, Lake-town has just been massacred, and the most we get of "resistance" is one line from Kili while they're building the wall. I'd just like a little more fleshed out with them. I thought PJ and Co did an incredible job of presenting the plight of Laketown with Bard, his family and even Alfrid (whom I enjoy). I just wish the same care and dramatic exploration was afforded to the dwarves who set all this in motion.
(This post was edited by Dcole4 on Aug 27 2015, 6:57pm)
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Susan
Bree
Aug 27 2015, 6:59pm
Post #25 of 38
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I too found it a bit strange that Thorin never said anything to Kili, especially about Tauriel. I can understand Kili trying to avoid conflict with his uncle and king, but find it hard to believe that Thorin didn't tell his nephew even once to "stay away from that elf, she's using you/none of them are to be trusted" or something of the sort, especially in his paranoid gold-sick state. Perhaps Kili's love life just wasn't on Thorin's preoccupied mind, or is it possible that Thorin didn't even know about the romance? The only time he could have found out, aside from a member of the company telling him, was in Thranduil's dungeons during the Feast of Starlight conversation. If he was still stewing over his conversation with the Elvenking, or pondering a means of escape, he might have missed the exchange (though that seems unlikely since sound carries well enough through the space, Tauriel and Kili weren't trying to keep their voices down, and the bouncing of the runestone on the floor was quite distinct).
As for the EE, I do desperately hope for more character scenes. Like Dcole4 said, a bookend moment with Bofur/Bilbo would be great. Maybe they could talk about how the dwarves' homeland has been reclaimed, but it hasn't turned out the way they expected.
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unfortunately
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