|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Avandel
Half-elven
Aug 27 2015, 6:10am
Post #51 of 65
(644 views)
Shortcut
|
Well, they could have just had Legolas hanging upside down from a bat that (as an exciting extra for an exclusive edition) is made with one of those puffy stickers.
And how is it that all of Legolas' arrows don't fall when he is upside down, anyway? 
|
|
|
Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Aug 27 2015, 8:00am
Post #52 of 65
(628 views)
Shortcut
|
It's hard to know if this is a spoof answer or not.
Prometheus etc. - I don't know what point you are answering with this, I'm afraid.
Could the films have done better? - of course, as stated above. Given that they each performed in the top 1%, mind you, they had 99 rungs on the ladder below them and less than one above - if we were rolling that dice again.
There is a faintly religious air to the elf bit. The book must be the answer - we just need to figure out how!
The Critic: "I don't like the 3 films, 48fps, the length of the films ....."
The Fan: "I'll just take these elves out for you, then "
The Critic: "Wait - I didn't say anything about that. In fact I specifically wrote that I liked Tauriel - quite a lot"
The Fan: "Ah but they are in films 2 and 3 - the extra ones. And they were shot at 48fps so there would be a bit less of that. And they take up time so, even though you said you liked them, what you really meant was that you didn't"
I think when the evidence is made to fit the pre-existing belief it makes a very unlikely case for those personal views reflecting broader reality (if the post is serious. If it's a spoof - very good!)
|
|
|
QuackingTroll
Valinor
Aug 27 2015, 11:11am
Post #53 of 65
(602 views)
Shortcut
|
I am mocking your insesant insistance to use or demand facts, figures and statistics to disprove what other members specifically state is their opinion. Someone says "IMO, Legolas should not be there" you can be sure Spriggan will jump in to point out that Legolas has done a wonderful job in marketing and giving The Hobbit its majority percentage of 61% on rotten tomatoes.
If anyone suggests through opinion or otherwise that the films could have performed any better than they did they're clearly wrong because the ladder metaphor shows that there's just no way The Hobbit could've gotten a rotten tomatoes/metacritic/imdb score as high as masterpieces like The Hunger Games or Maze Runner.
By the way, I have no pre existing belief about any of this. I'm just protecting other members' rights to express their opinion without being told they need evidence to back it up.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 27 2015, 11:17am)
|
|
|
Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Aug 27 2015, 11:38am
Post #54 of 65
(595 views)
Shortcut
|
|
It depends on what people are saying.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
You seem to be confusing personal taste with claims about the real world.
Obviously anyone, me included, can say that they liked this, disliked that or would have personally preferred the other. There's no need to provide any real world evidence for that (though we might well wonder if tastes are consistent or logical).
If someone is saying that they think some real thing would be different - like ticket sales or release schedules or premier locations then surely we would ask why someone thinks that is likely (and look at whether there is any evidence to support that). Why should asking what a claim is based on be something which people need "protection" from. Surely these claims are not so flimsy as to have to avoid any evidence or logic?
You seem to see no difference between these different types of "opinion". If I said that, in my opinion, I didn't like Taylor Swift's music, you would take that as a matter of taste. If I said, in my opinion, her music contains hidden messages promoting the North Korean regime, I think, quite reasonably, you would ask what I was basing that on.
Or perhaps you would would simply take that as a taste opinion and just accept it?
(This post was edited by Spriggan on Aug 27 2015, 11:40am)
|
|
|
QuackingTroll
Valinor
Aug 27 2015, 11:53am
Post #55 of 65
(579 views)
Shortcut
|
|
You were asking someone to provide evidence of measured excitement
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I don't think I have to say anything else.
But I am slightly concerned by "we might well wonder if tastes are consistent or logical"
|
|
|
Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Aug 27 2015, 1:09pm
Post #56 of 65
(569 views)
Shortcut
|
Not of their own excitement. Of the idea that there was such excitement amongst people in general that these films were essentially guaranteed to perform as well as they have (which is another real world claim - and a silly one in my view).
Why would wondering about that be of concern? If, as is not unknown, someone argues on separate occasions that a film is, for example, both too long and too short wouldn't we wonder about how those opinions are consistent?
Where we aren't talking about personal taste, is it that you aren't interested in whether claims are true or not or is it that it doesn't matter to you?
(This post was edited by Spriggan on Aug 27 2015, 1:10pm)
|
|
|
Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Aug 27 2015, 1:44pm
Post #57 of 65
(567 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Seriously, you do go overboard sometimes
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
You got me off on a tangent about professional marketers when I didn't ever want to talk about that, and you nudged this thread into "marketing territory." Now, I COULD be wrong, but I think most people HERE would agree that the cover is Elf-centric and ignores other main characters, just like the movie. Like I said, I could be wrong, as evidenced by the majority of replies not agreeing with me. Okay, fine, there's your "evidence," but I'm not changing my mind on this - therefore, "evidence" is only worth so much, and by itself is not very persuasive.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
|
|
|
Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Aug 27 2015, 1:46pm
Post #58 of 65
(561 views)
Shortcut
|
When talking about personal taste, claims and evidence really don't matter, nor do they have to be consistent. It kind of just depends, and some things really can't be quantified.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
|
|
|
Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Aug 27 2015, 1:55pm
Post #59 of 65
(555 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I agree - I said that further up, at least a couple of times.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Aug 27 2015, 1:59pm
Post #60 of 65
(554 views)
Shortcut
|
You are answering a completely different question, though. I'm not quite sure why any of this is difficult to follow.
|
|
|
entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 27 2015, 2:19pm
Post #61 of 65
(551 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Maybe it's time to move on to other topics
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
There's so much to talk about with the EEs, and this conversation is not generating a wide participation.
|
|
|
Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Aug 27 2015, 5:52pm
Post #62 of 65
(517 views)
Shortcut
|
You can't recall the buzz in the entertainment media in the lead up to AUJ? About returning to Middle-earth and all that jazz?
I'd say these movies were as close to a sure thing as it can get. Do you expect Star Wars Episode 7 to tank? I mean, anything's possible, but in all likelihood it won't, even after the disappointment of the prequels. The Star Wars brand is a cash-cow, just as the Middle-earth brand is a cash-cow. I highly doubt WB would have greenlit 3 films to be made out of this slim novel had they not expected huge profits.
|
|
|
Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Aug 27 2015, 9:20pm
Post #63 of 65
(478 views)
Shortcut
|
Doesn't get us to a sure thing, doesn't get us to the same level of success and doesn't get us past the first film.
I also don't think it gets is to the idea that any given change could have no substantive effect (though, as I say, if you were to argue that you would also have to, I think, hold that you could, say, replace Thorin with Legolas entirely and it would make no difference).
|
|
|
Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Aug 28 2015, 10:48pm
Post #64 of 65
(396 views)
Shortcut
|
|
But odds were always stacked in favor of these movies doing well...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
They had everything going for them. Most sequels/prequels are not associated with classic film trilogies like these Hobbit films were.
As to your second post, I'm sure many people would not have cared if Thorin were replaced by Legolas. You among them. But your way of thinking has always eluded me, my dear Spriggan.
|
|
|
Arveldis
Rivendell
Aug 29 2015, 2:28am
Post #65 of 65
(388 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I'm sure the kiddies would love it.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Perhaps there could be Lego minifigures of Legolas and his bat as an extra special bonus. 
Hmm...Maybe Legolas's quiver is a distant cousin of the Talking Purse, imbued with the quality of holding arrows through absolutely everything. 
|
|
|
|
|
LOL
[
