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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 26 2015, 1:46pm
Post #1 of 14
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Dain's Arrival/Dwarven Cavalry (EE Spoilers)
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So it looks like Dain's arrival will play out differently in the EE from that trailer. But I don't see it being changed quite as radically as people think. I think, near the top of the ridge, he will stop, the two sides will engage in an exchange of missiles and he'll send in his ram-riding cavalry to scare the Elves, who will part ranks to allow them through. Gandalf will probably intervene, and then Dain will ride down to the rock and his conversation will play out as before. They have to have Dain's big introduction, otherwise his role will only be reduced.
My main question is this - what will become of this newly-present Dwarven cavalry? Where will they go? As things stand, they can't charge in with Dain and his infantry, so they'll have to do something else. We will see them again in the battle? We have to see them engaging in battle, surely with Wargs, and being largely wiped out. Otherwise it will introduce yet another thread in the battle which goes unresolved, at least in a satisfactory manner. Also, will the Dwarven artillery come into play at a later stage? Interesting to speculate, but I just hope we see what happens to these ram riders (it will be a great chance to bring in Wargs on a big scale) and that they don't disappear into the background.
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Aug 26 2015, 1:55pm
Post #2 of 14
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to be exactly like how you describe them in your first paragraph, it is a significant alteration from the theatrical edition isn't it?
As far as what happens to the battle rams after that, i really hope we see them engage in the battle with a pack of Wargs.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 26 2015, 2:00pm
Post #3 of 14
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But I think it will be more of an extension rather than a completely different scene to the TC. I still think much of that material will be in there.
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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 26 2015, 2:20pm
Post #4 of 14
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I am sure it will be a mix... though some of the scenes might use different takes, as I imagine the temper of the characters being different after they have already shot at each other.
As I said in another post, I hope this new and extended scene will use the whole "Battle for the Mountain" track.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Earl
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 26 2015, 2:51pm
Post #5 of 14
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Perhaps we will even get Gandalf's "... how shall this day end" line
[In reply to]
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It's been some months since I watched the movie, but as I recall, it wasn't in the film.
Maybe Gandalf brings the armies to a halt before they actually clash, so the Dwarven cavalry doesn't really get past the ridge and run into the Elven army. And perhaps that is when Dain comes riding out front of his cavalry to have his verbal exchange with Gandalf and the Woodland Sprite (I actually rather like the disparaging term that Dain uses for Thranduil, and how Thranduil claims he's "clearly mad"  )
The Hobbit Soundtracks - Being an online archive of information concerning Howard Shore's score for The Hobbit films.
(This post was edited by Earl on Aug 26 2015, 2:53pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 26 2015, 3:00pm
Post #7 of 14
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I had seen a similar test before but lost the link.
Still, the music that was probably originally meant for the armies storming at each other really offers itself for some great battle shots... I really hope it somehow finds its way back into the movie.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Aug 26 2015, 3:06pm)
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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 26 2015, 3:07pm
Post #9 of 14
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Is that the music for Dain's charge into battle is far too low in the film. It's barely audible. It should have been much louder.
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brotherbeck
Rivendell
Aug 26 2015, 3:39pm
Post #10 of 14
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It is starting to become apparent to me that the reason the battle plays out in such a disjointed and choppy way is that large aspects of it were removed from the theatrical cut. Simplifying Dain's arrival by removing the dwarven cavalry may have indeed saved a little bit of time, but it then requires going in and removing all subsequent shots where they would appear (or severely digitally altering shots at the very least.)
With the changes they made to shorten the overall run time of the film, I feel they removed too much material from the battle and really stripped it of its impact. It is glaringly obvious while watching the film that what is presented on screen in the theatrical cut was not the actual plan for the battle and how it would play out. I know some people say it still hangs together and works as a narrative, but with things like the battle rams just popping up with no good explanation or cutting away from Beorn mid-action after only about 8 seconds it really doesn't work.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Aug 26 2015, 4:56pm
Post #11 of 14
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Well, THAT could explain the "R" rating - some big dog-thing tearing a Ram apart could be quite upsetting to little children.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Faleel
Rohan
Aug 26 2015, 5:07pm
Post #12 of 14
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Don't forget the full The Clouds Burst!
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Aug 26 2015, 8:41pm
Post #13 of 14
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Although, my main interest lies to see the battle rams in action not necessarily against wargs( which would be my most desired choice) but against Orcs as well.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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xMb
The Shire
Aug 27 2015, 2:58am
Post #14 of 14
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If wargs have to do with why the rams are no longer present (if they werent just digitally removed) maybe it has something to do with the ones we see chasing the chariot?
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, especially if the rams are armored like the WETA books concept art. It's just one of the choices for dwarves being mounted that I think was genius and completely appropriate for the terrain. 