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rangerfromthenorth
Rivendell
Aug 13 2015, 4:47pm
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The Ring and the Wraiths
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Here is a question I would love to hear some discussion on. How does the Ring work in regards to drawing the Ringwraiths? In Bree Strider says to Frodo- “At all times they (Wraiths) smell the blood of living things, desiring and hating it…the Ring draws them.” And in Rivendell Gandalf says about the incident at the Ford, "And also the Ring drew them.” So how do you think this drawing works? Is it like a magnet? Is it like a calling out? Is it just a communication between the One Ring and the lower nine rings? Something else? I would love to hear thoughts on this.
Not all those who wander are lost
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Brethil
Half-elven
Aug 13 2015, 7:47pm
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I tend to think that the Ring and the Wraiths share a similar plane of existence - the spirit sort of plane - and thus have more of a sense of each other than for example we do of them.
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rangerfromthenorth
Rivendell
Aug 13 2015, 8:17pm
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interesting, but further clarification
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I guess part of what I was getting at is this. Is the Ring personally acting or drawing the Wraiths to it, or is it more of an impersonal drawing like when two magnetic objects get close to each other, or even like gravity?
Not all those who wander are lost
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Aug 14 2015, 1:37am
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Although Tolkien discussed things like the Palantiri in various essays, appendices, and other supplementary material, I don't believe he ever commented on the Ring's communication capabilities and mechanisms. We have to make whatever guesses we can from the hints in the text. These are, alas, pretty varied and inconsistent. Some theories I've heard are that Sauron and his servants have "Ring detection" capabilities (just as we might have radiation or metal detectors), or that the Ring itself can send signals that they are sensitive to. At times the Ring appears to have some volition ("wants to be found"), but it's never more than a hypothesis.
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Aug 14 2015, 1:38am)
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Wasserwaldnymphe
The Shire
Aug 16 2015, 12:40pm
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I read at http://tolkien.slimy.com/newsgroups/RingSense.txt that the Nazgul "feel" the ring's presence, but they can't locate him precisely. He also talked about the sniffing of the wraiths. He wonders, if the wraith could smell living beings. I think that could be possible since they can't see anything, and are dependent on their other senses (although it's somewhat weird: why can they smell and hear, but not see?).
What can men do against such reckless hate?
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Aug 16 2015, 4:27pm
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. . . ‘For the black horses can see, and the Riders can use men and other creatures as spies, as we found at Bree. They themselves do not see the world of light as we do, but our shapes cast shadows in their minds, which only the noon sun destroys, and in the dark they perceive many signs and forms that are hidden from us: then they are most to be feared. And at all times they smell the blood of living things, desiring and hating it. Senses, too, there are other than sight or smell. We can feel their presence - it troubled our hearts, as soon as we came here and before we saw them; they feel ours more keenly. Also,’ he added, and his voice sank to a whisper, ‘ the Ring draws them.’ -Aragorn: FOTR, I, 11 (my bold) Does this not indicate that the Nazgul DO ‘see’ shadowy shapes which only the bright ‘noon sun’ destroys? It’s hard to imagine any coordination within the Nine with only a ‘snuffling’. I envision some sort of vague sight. After all the eye (it is mentioned before Frodo’s stabbing that they had ‘merciless eyes’) is just a conduit to the to the brain (mind?) which is the interpreter of the vision. As for ‘the Ring draws them’; it does seem so in the beginning of the story. But why oh why were the Nazgul flitting around the Pelennor area when they should have been searching the area of the Morgai and Gorgoroth if the Ring drew them. Just wondering…
Boromir looked in surprise at Bilbo, but the laughter died on his lips when he saw that all the others regarded the old hobbit with grave respect. Only Glóin smiled, but his smile came from old memories. -JRR Tolkien
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Aug 16 2015, 6:50pm
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Senses vary tremendously in different creatures.
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Dogs have a sense of smell that we can only imagine (hearing, as well) but they cannot see at all well compared with hawks, for example, who can spot prey at great distances from high altitudes. Nocturnal creatures are nearly blind in the daytime (blinded by too much light), and Nazgul may have acquired that characteristic. So all these physiological features have analogs in creatures we know, except for the Ring draws them. That mechanism remains mysterious, unless we conjecture something akin to radiation, which is not naturally detectable by any creatures in the Primary World.
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Aug 24 2015, 3:12pm
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Yes, more like 'partially sighted' riders
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...they can see (and otherwise sense) everyday mortal things. Some influence (whether it is the Riders or the Ring) seems to try to compel Frodo to put the Ring on when he has a Rider encounter. I'd imagined this then meant the Riders could see him very clearly. Moreover, that's something that becomes inessential at the Ford - Frodo is wounded with the Morgul knife then, which seems to make him visible to riders. I thin the Jackson movie suggests that the Ring draws the Riders a lot more if Frodo puts it on - so we see them violently rein in and double back to Bree after Frodo's unfortunate disappearing accident in the Prancing Pony. I see that idea as consistent with the text, though possibly an exaggeration of it that is useful for cinematic purposes. But as Elizabeth says, it is all kept very mysterious. I think it's probably better that way: we are only told theories and rumours and so don't ever quite find out what Frodo is up against.
~~~~~~ Join us for a read-through of The Two Towers (Book III of Lord of the Rings) in the Reading-Room - 13 September- 29 November 2015. Schedule etc: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=864064#864064
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