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Dcole4
Rohan
Aug 12 2015, 5:57pm
Post #1 of 15
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Speculation : RA's Mention of a New Thrain scene
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RA most recently said that he's looking forward to the funeral and chariot sequences in the EE, but he also mentioned we'd see another performance from Antony Sher. There's only two places I can imagine this happening...
1) A new prologue featuring the hand off of the key and map to Gandalf. There is a case of "missing prologue." In that I mean that before the switch to three films there must have been a prologue for what would have been There and Back Again. We know it is not the Bree sequence since it was noted as being shot after the switch to a trilogy. PB mentioned a long time ago (during AUJ press time) when asked about Thrain giving the Key/Map, she said "we will go there." I wonder if this scene was the intended prologue but became unnecessary since the Key/Map are irrelevant to the plot of BOTFA. (In the two-film version this prologue would have served nicely since the end of the first act would have been them opening the door). Could this be the scene RA mentions? It would seem clunky to re-include it as a prologue to BOTFA as the transition would be jarring to Smaug's attack and again, the key/map aren't shown or mentioned at all in BOTFA.
2) The only other place is the scene in which Thorin overcomes his Dragon sickness. (Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLUSuwInLnw) I wonder if we'll see Thrain in this sequence as a hallucination. Maybe the voice overs were added as a replacement and this scene will instead include a brief dialogue from Thrain. It would explain many of the jarring cuts in the sequence. Given the major contextual changes in DOS EE, it wouldn't surprise me. And these changes wouldn't add too much runtime given that most of the sequence exists in the film as is.
What are your thoughts? Is there another place you could see the wonderful Antony Sher popping in?
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Aug 12 2015, 5:59pm
Post #2 of 15
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That was probably part of the missing ten minutes
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'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Aug 12 2015, 6:14pm
Post #3 of 15
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The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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Thrain II
Lorien
Aug 12 2015, 6:34pm
Post #4 of 15
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1) was shot, but will never see the light of day since the switch to 3 films.
As for 2) it is possible, maybe in the scene where Gandalf addresses Thorin on the ramparts. In the clip you posted there is a line from Gandalf we didn't hear in any movie yet: "This treasure will be you death". I think it belongs to that speech, and maybe there we will see the flashback/hallucination? Thorin seems like he just came out of one in the moment he let's go of Bilbo.
But since we are getting barely 20 minutes in EE I am not expecting to see Thrain again.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 12 2015, 6:45pm
Post #5 of 15
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I think that missing ten minutes....
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...is about three hours long already!
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Aug 12 2015, 6:56pm
Post #6 of 15
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I can't imagine what the point of the first would be..
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We already know that Thrain gave Gandalf the map and key for safekeeping - what seeing this would add, I'm not at all sure.
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Aug 12 2015, 8:49pm
Post #7 of 15
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we do not think it will happen
most of the focus will be on Sauroman. He deserved it
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Aug 12 2015, 8:49pm
Post #8 of 15
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We could make a three hour movie
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Just about the angst over the missing ten minutes! 
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 12 2015, 9:50pm
Post #9 of 15
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*ducks hastily back into teapot and closely lid*
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Aug 12 2015, 11:19pm
Post #10 of 15
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You really think most of the extended footage will feature Saruman...? I'd say we'd be lucky to get more than 30 seconds of extra Saruman footage.
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Aug 12 2015, 11:21pm
Post #11 of 15
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That'd be too long. Gotta keep it around two and a half hours with a nice "thriller pace."
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 13 2015, 12:15am
Post #12 of 15
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We already know that Thrain gave Gandalf the map and key for safekeeping - what seeing this would add, I'm not at all sure.
but at this point in the story the map and key are no longer relevant. The Mountain has been located, the door has been open...the map and key have served their purpose. It's time to move on.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Aug 13 2015, 2:00am
Post #13 of 15
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As for 2) it is possible, maybe in the scene where Gandalf addresses Thorin on the ramparts. In the clip you posted there is a line from Gandalf we didn't hear in any movie yet: "This treasure will be you death". I think it belongs to that speech, and maybe there we will see the flashback/hallucination? Thorin seems like he just came out of one in the moment he let's go of Bilbo.
Because, I have always thought that when Thorin responds to the "son of Thrain" comment it's a bit of a fudge, since IMO the reason that Thorin would react that strongly is if Gandalf had visited Thorin the night before, and Thorin knew his beloved father was truly gone. Otherwise, why make an issue re "son of Thrain" except reminding Thorin of his father?
For a theater audience, who may or may not have seen the DOS EE, where we really see how much Thorin and Thrain cared for each other? Because it's more Thorin/Thror in the AUJ EE.
So I also think Gandalf had tried to talk to Thorin that night - it's inexplicable that he wouldn't on the eve of a battle - and Thorin doesn't seem surprised to see Gandalf, e.g. there's no "and where the _________ have you been?" or anything. And that Gandalf did tell Thorin "this treasure will be your death...."
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Thrain II
Lorien
Aug 13 2015, 10:37am
Post #14 of 15
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I find it hard to believe that Gandalf wouldn't fulfill Thrain's last request. That's why I think he emphasized "son of Thrain" in his speech, because Thorin would snap out of it if he remembered his father and his tragic fate.
First I thought that Gandalf would tell Thorin about Thrain on the ramparts scene, since it looks like something is cut from Gandalf's speech. But since Richard mentioned an actual scene showing Thrain, I guess it could be flashback or hallucination.
But alas, as I said considering we will get only 20 more minutes I don't have any hope we will see (or hear) Thrain again...
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glor
Rohan
Aug 14 2015, 10:35pm
Post #15 of 15
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RA was in Sher's RSC worldwide touring acting company.
I can just see PJ not telling RA that ''Tone' as RA has referred to Mr Sher in interviews, was going to play Thrain and just introducing the two on set in full costume.
I could see this as a rather amusing extra in the Appendices. from what I recall of the interview RA just talks about a scene with both of them meeting....
No mascara can survive BOTFA
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