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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
An old topic re-discussed and still unresolved : Blade of Angmar

Dcole4
Rohan

Aug 10 2015, 2:54pm

Post #1 of 9 (632 views)
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An old topic re-discussed and still unresolved : Blade of Angmar Can't Post

So, one of the things set up in AUJ and was never resolved is how the blade of the Witch King makes its way back to the Nazgul. In the commentary for the AUJ EE PJ explicitly says we would definitely see this. With only 20 minutes of footage being added, I can't imagine they'd waste much footage on that, unless its part of an interrogation scene where Gandalf's things are rifled through in much the same way that Frodo's was in ROTK. I do find it odd that Gandalf inexplicably has his sword and hat back at the end of the sequence, perhaps we will witness the orcs studying his personal affects before having them taken back by the wizard during his escape.

It's weird that footage like this didn't make it into the TE. Like many things, these films seem happy to drop storylines and ideas altogether with no regard. The Windlance isn't so much as referenced in Smaug's attack, Thranduil's gems are never returned or discussed, the Arkenstone remains unresolved, the Witch-King's sword is still in Rivendell for all we know, and Gandalf obtains Radagast's staff with no pause for explanation. While I can understand that the filmmakers want to keep the films snappy for a modern audience, there's an obvious difference between lean/economical storytelling and butchered storytelling. Part of this issue, as many have pointed out, is PJ's misguided priorities, could the Legolas and Thranduil Strider scene not have been a nice EE scene, and instead use that emotional beat elsewhere to resolve something that's already left hanging rather than convolute the story more. There's just so many clearly hacked editing points in the film where footage has been not-so-sneakily been ripped away. Again there's a difference between leaving a gap for the audience to fill in, and just confusing them all-together (again, a shot like showing Gandalf suddenly with his hat and sword, and of course for a casual moviegoer watching a character jump from a bird and transform into a bear only to disappear entirely five seconds later).


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Aug 10 2015, 3:04pm

Post #2 of 9 (591 views)
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Í would like to see him recovering his hat ala Indiana Jones [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, definetly much things must be resolved for the EE

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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 10 2015, 3:18pm

Post #3 of 9 (569 views)
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While it would be nice to see the blade recovered... [In reply to] Can't Post

We were told (off-screen) that the Morgul-knife is the same one that the Witch-king used to stab Frodo; however, if we don't see it recovered then we can presume that the Lord of the Nazgul instead acquired another such blade.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 10 2015, 3:24pm

Post #4 of 9 (556 views)
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Pretty sure there was only one... [In reply to] Can't Post

Even without off-screen info. Galadriel says of the Morgul Blade: "...made for the Witch King of Angmar and buried with him". Gandalf wouldn't need to go check out Angmar's tomb if there was more than one of these blades, and we see in DoS EE the Witch King only gets buried with one of them. So it seems to imply only one exists. Which is interesting, since they dissolve after use - so how so much is known about it without it being used seems odd.

Also when Aragorn sees it he says "A Morgul Blade" not "THE Morgul Blade". So it is a bit confusing. Not so sure now...


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 10 2015, 3:27pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 10 2015, 3:34pm

Post #5 of 9 (538 views)
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Morgul-blades [In reply to] Can't Post

There is likely to have been more than one Morgul-knife for the very reason that you give.

Quote
Also when Aragorn sees it he says "A Morgul Blade" not "THE Morgul Blade".


Aragorn has obviously heard of them before and can guess at their effects. At the same time, they would be incredibly rare, especially if they tend do dissolve in sunlight when out of a Nazgul's possession.

"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Aug 10 2015, 3:41pm

Post #6 of 9 (525 views)
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I don't mind films being a snapshot of events. [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless shot in real time, a lot will happen off-camera. It also lends to the sense of immersion in the world - if you were really there, there would be many unexplained details. But I don't think the Morgul blade stuff works - it seems to contradict itself. I don't mind the staff and sword stuff - I assume Gandalf went and retrieved his sword, and I don't need to see him getting his new staff - except that PJ did say in the commentaries, that the staff thing was going to be explained later. So, it seems that PJ had a change of mind about the TE.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


adt100
Rohan


Aug 10 2015, 5:36pm

Post #7 of 9 (418 views)
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I agree with toon many of your comments.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Though I would personally word it quite so harshly. However, I think most of the general audience don't really think or care of such details as what happened to the morgul blade, and how did Gandalf g his hat and staff back etc. they may be issues for us (and for neatness I would certainly have liked these resolved) but it the grand scheme of things they aren't really that important for most people. They could be included as small 'gaffes' etc, but as the lay audience "do you want to see more Legolas or how Gandalf got his hat back" the answer would be clear.


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Aug 11 2015, 4:21pm

Post #8 of 9 (260 views)
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Yes, the films themselves don't set up a number of such things [In reply to] Can't Post

These are draft ideas discussed in commentaries or supporting books which didn't make the final cut. The films themselves don't make a mention of the WK retreiving this specific morgul blade.


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Aug 11 2015, 4:27pm

Post #9 of 9 (256 views)
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Elrond also says "A morgul blade" [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think there is any logical demand that only one exist (and indeed the films suggest otherwise). They may only be used / created by the WK and/or this one may be recognised by the WC.

 
 

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