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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 10 2015, 12:09pm
Post #1 of 13
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Bilbo and the Gems of Lasgalen
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Several people have mentioned hopes that a scene of Bilbo returning the Gems of Lasgalen will be included in the EE. I was thinking about this scene and realized that - unless I missed something - Bilbo does not know about Thranduil's necklace. Thorin does not mention it to him, nor does Thranduil, or Balin or anyone else. So, it would come to reason, if a scene of Bilbo returning the necklace to Thranduil is included then a scene of someone (I'm guessing Thorin or Balin) telling Bilbo about the necklace would have to be included as well.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Aug 10 2015, 12:24pm
Post #2 of 13
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could have bilbo stole the lasgalen aswell?
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He would have avoided the threat of the elves in one single move.
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 10 2015, 12:39pm
Post #3 of 13
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I've seen posts suggesting that more should be said to explain the necklace and Thranduil's attachment to it. I've seen posts suggesting that it should be given back to Thranduil. I can't recall who the giver was supposed to be but Balin seems possible, or Dain. I've never seen anyone suggest that Bilbo should give it to Thranduil and the idea makes no sense to me, for the reasons you mention. It doesn't make sense. The issue of the necklace is between Thranduil and the dwarves.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Aug 10 2015, 1:13pm
Post #4 of 13
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They explicity attached the necklace to legolas mother and that that is the motivation for thranduil of being so attached to it.
It will tie some invented stuff(legolas mother background) to something that actually happens in the book. So it will gain a new meaning as a reinforcement of something on the canon
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 10 2015, 2:11pm
Post #5 of 13
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Some people have mentioned that Bilbo supposedly gives the necklace back to Thranduil and is named Elf-friend. I can not recall if Bilbo is named Elf-friend in the book, but I'm not sure why he would be given the title in the movies. Other than his brief interaction with Elrond in AUJ and when he delivers the Arkenstone to Bard and Thranduil, he has no further relationship with the Elves. Or is Elf-friend a title that is given to someone who does a good deed?
Referring back to the AUJ prologue, Bilbo does mention the Gems. So at some point he learns of them from someone. Though I agree, the necklace is - should remain - between the Dwarves and Thranduil.
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Dcole4
Rohan
Aug 10 2015, 2:21pm
Post #6 of 13
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Bilbo does have an idea of what they are...
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In the clip below, at about 4:40 or so, we see Thorin, with the company, pick up the gems and says "I know an Elf Lord that would pay a pretty price for these."
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuqRSARKYNc
I think it's fair to assume Bilbo might have overheard this. More of this scene in the counting room was shot, it's shown in a couple small stills in the Art Chronicles book. Perhaps they'll re-insert a couple shots with the other dwarves and Bilbo overhearing this, setting up Bilbo eventually giving the gems back to Thranduil. We do know from PB that a scene was shot between Dain and Bilbo. Perhaps thats where Bilbo gifts the gems to Thranduil? Pure speculation, and judging from the decision making process by PJ and co, I won't keep my hopes up. I do find it excruciating that they don't even resolve half the plots they set up in the films in the theatrical cut. It's left this EE with an awful lot to live up to. We don't get any form of resolution for the gems, the Arkenstone, Dain, Beorn, Radagast. Severely disappointing.
(This post was edited by Dcole4 on Aug 10 2015, 2:22pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Aug 10 2015, 2:37pm
Post #7 of 13
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Bilbo, in the book, does present the Elvenking with a necklace of silver and pearls that had been given to him by Dain. I presume that he is named Elf-friend not so much for that as for his efforts to try to prevent war from breaking out between the Dwarves and the Elves and Men.
In the film-continuity, though, it might be more appropriate for Dain, as the reigning King under the Mountain, to return the Gems of Lasgalen to Thranduil.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 10 2015, 2:53pm
Post #8 of 13
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.. on parting with the Elven king Bilbo gives him a necklace made of silver and pearls that he had as a gift from Dain. Bilbo gives it to the King in return for the food and drink he stole while he was invisible, during the dwarves' captivity. And in return the King names him 'Elf friend and blessed.'
It's a lovely scene. But the necklace there is just a necklace, with no backstory and no meaning for the King. I suppose they could use it, but that was just a random necklace. As they've created this other (?) necklace, or at least given the necklace a history, it would be rather odd for Dain to give it to Bilbo when the King already has a claim to it. They would have to explain that, I think.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 10 2015, 2:59pm
Post #9 of 13
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Yes - sorry, I just answered a previous post without seeing yours...
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...and said pretty much what you said. I think the title 'Elf Friend' is immediately for Bilbo's graciousness in repaying the king for the things he stole, and in a broader sense for the whole part Bilbo has played in the story.
I'd love to see the scene, but the backstory of the film necklace has made it more difficult for them to do things that way.
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Dcole4
Rohan
Aug 10 2015, 3:02pm
Post #10 of 13
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I think this random necklace in the book is something the filmmakers intended to expand and give more meaning to. I don't think it's a coincidence that so much has been made of the necklace in the films, I think it's a clear homage and eventual set-up for Bilbo to give the gems back to Thranduil. I'm sure they have at least written this scene, this nugget in the book likely spawned the entire subplot of the necklace in the films. I'd be surprised if it's not in the EE, whether re-inserted in the film or mentioned in the docs.
The only worry I have is that they may leave it out due to CGI Dain. Billy shot all of his scenes in make-up but PJ was not happy with the make-up (much like the orcs), and that's the reason he painted over Billy. It's a shame, I'd much rather have the real thing, afterall there are a dozen or so moments in LOTR where John's make-up for Gimli was very stiff and very obvious but it didn't hinder the story. I feel the filmmakers were a bit more superficial this go-around, particularly harsh on the work of the make-up artists against the 5K resolution, which after all the fuss was later bumped down I heard to accommodate the visual effects work. But I digress, I do think we will see this scene or a mention of it in the commentary since it seems to be the whole reason they created the thread in the movie. Dain's the only reason I can imagine them deciding not to include it.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Aug 10 2015, 3:07pm
Post #11 of 13
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I dont have such issues with CGI Dain I recognie Billy´s face
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The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
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Dcole4
Rohan
Aug 10 2015, 3:10pm
Post #12 of 13
(873 views)
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I don't have much issue with it, since he's written and handled fairly well. It's just an odd and unfortunate result of the filmmakers push to fine tune everything in 5K. I do sincerely wish that these films were shot on film. Much would be different, as the switch to state of the art hi-def digital cameras has resulted in many of the controversial aesthetic changes.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Aug 10 2015, 3:13pm
Post #13 of 13
(870 views)
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It is amusing just how similar our posts were.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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