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Cirashala
Valinor
Aug 10 2015, 4:12am
Post #1 of 11
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Don't know if this belongs on DOS geeky obs list or BO5A's
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I'm watching DOS EE right now, and when Bard is reciting the prophecy, I caught something REALLY cool.
His line, "And the bell shall ring in gladness/at the Mountain King's return" made me pause.
I don't think this references the bells in Laketown at ALL-not with regards to the book. For one, it's not plural. For another, the only bell that rings in Dale is the emergency one that Bard cuts the line of when he's trying to shoot Smaug.
When Thorin finally shakes off the madness in BO5A, the implement the dwarves use to break down their barricade is a....wait for it...
GIANT BELL.
And it rung....at the Mountain King's return (this is when Thorin returns as a king, and not a dwarf completely out of his senses).
I suppose it could also, in theory, refer to the bell in DOS in Laketown as sort of a double entendre, but the phrasing in the prophecy makes me FAR more inclined to think that the "ringing bell" refers to that giant golden bell that rings when Thorin comes back to his senses and truly becomes The King Under the Mountain.
Too bad his reign only lasted all of an hour 
But I thought this was a WAY cool find  And a great demonstration of subtlety and hidden meaning on the part of the writers (which, incidentally, also proves that when they nail it, they REALLY nail it) 
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Aug 10 2015, 5:08am
Post #2 of 11
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I know that the subtitles gives the line as, "And the bell shall ring in gladness," but I wonder if that is really accurate. "Bells shall" sounds virtually identical and I'm not convinced that this is not how the line should be heard.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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adt100
Rohan
Aug 10 2015, 8:21am
Post #3 of 11
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I suppose it could also, in theory, refer to the bell in DOS in Laketown as sort of a double entendre,
Ooh 'er missus!
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Aug 10 2015, 2:26pm
Post #5 of 11
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ANY Poetic interpretation.. IZZ...
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Fine by Bomby...
Isn't REALITY
GENERALLY
an Interpretation..?
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Aug 10 2015, 3:13pm
Post #6 of 11
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The Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, shall come into his own. And the bells shall ring in gladness, at the Mountain King’s return, But all shall fail in sadness, and the Lake will shine and burn.
The Lord of Silver Fountains
Historically, the phrase "silver fountains" generally refers to a water mass. In this case it likely means the Running River, which originates from the waterfalls of the Lonely Mountain and feeds into the Long Lake.
We discussed other poems that have used "silver fountains" to imply a river before -
http://newboards.theonering.net/...latest_reply;so=ASC;
The King of Carven Stone
Now the immediate image you imagine is probably the big stone dwarf statues outside of Erebor, which is probably accurate. But "stone" can also refer to jewels, which Erebor famously mined, and could even refer to the Arkenstone.
The King Beneath the Mountain, shall come into his own.
The rightful King (Possibly Dain, far more likely Thorin), will return to his kingdom (Erebor). Poetically, Thorin becomes the King Beneath the Mountain literally, when he is buried below it.
And the bells shall ring in gladness
These could be metaphorical bells of gladness, to show that the people will initially be happy. But we do see a literal bell ringing in Laketown that Bard cuts the rope on. And it could also refer to the bell used to break Erebor's barricaded entrance.
At the Mountain King's return
Depending on how you read the bells line, this can refer to Thorin's return to Erebor, or Thorin's return to sanity or his return to joining the battle.
But all shall fail in sadness
This could mean a number of things, most likely the many losses of Laketown. But it could also hint at Thorin's ultimate fate and the consequences of that battle.
And the Lake will shine and burn
The Long Lake, and Laketown itself end up engulfed in dragon fire an destroyed after Smaug's attack.
Now I recommend listening to this: https://youtu.be/vN4SybJkRoY
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 10 2015, 3:16pm)
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Aug 10 2015, 3:23pm
Post #7 of 11
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Reality isn't an interpretation. Our interpretation of reality is an interpretation. Important distinction, otherwise we end up with relativism, and we know where that ends - everything becomes equally brilliant, or awful, and Michael Bay wins an Oscar.
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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Cirashala
Valinor
Aug 10 2015, 5:05pm
Post #8 of 11
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this was an excellent analysis- thank you!
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I will add one tidbit though- I thought it was bells too, until I watched with subtitles, and he specifically says bell (singular).
There are two bells in Laketown at least, now that I think about it. When the spies are doing their little relay while watching Bard, the kids hit a little bell. So I suppose it could have easily had double meanings.
I just found it extremely odd at first as to why Thorin and co. would use a BELL of all things to smash down that wall. It didn't seem to make sense using a giant bell cinematically, especially as Bombur had already blown a giant horn announcing Thorin's charge, and was a bit jarring to me.
But when I realized what I mentioned in my OP, that the prophecy could have been referring to that bell and Thorin finally earning his right to be King Under the Mountain, suddenly the use of a bell in that moment made sense.
Just seemed to be too much of a coincidence, that's all 
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Aug 10 2015, 7:17pm
Post #10 of 11
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As many times as I've watched DOS & BOT5A, I never connected the prophesy with either bell in BOT5A. I guess I'm always too hung up on why Bard is the only person in town that remembers the "all shall fail in sadness" part of the prophesy. "And the bell shall ring in gladness at the Mountain King's return," and then using a giant bell to smash the wall, that just sounds like a Peter Jackson thing. I think you're on to something here!
I don't think that "All shall fail in sadness" refers to Thorin, though, because even though he died, he succeeded in reclaiming the Mountain for his people. (STILL hate that ending, though )
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Aug 10 2015, 7:33pm
Post #11 of 11
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I think it's the same in the book...
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Different people interpret the words of the song differently. In the book the final line is "All sorrow fail and sadness at the Mountain King's return" which implies that sadness will fail and all will be joyful at Thorin's return. Think about nursery rhymes, there are often multiple alternate lyrics to familiar rhymes, Bard just happened to be one of the people who interpreted it negatively, I don't think he was necessarily the only one. But if he was maybe it has something to do with his lineage.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 10 2015, 7:36pm)
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