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Dân o’Nandor-on-Anduin
Rivendell
Aug 10 2015, 1:25am
Post #1 of 14
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The Arda 300: #40 - #1
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I'll be doing the last 40 in installments...
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Dân o’Nandor-on-Anduin
Rivendell
Aug 10 2015, 1:27am
Post #2 of 14
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#40 Varda Elbereth, Lady of the Stars (f) – valier queen
[TG:39,EoA:10,Wik:10,RF:36,JT:39,DD:19,MD:8,DK:7,JR:1,JG:3,Let:2,LR/SL/CH:26,HM/UT:164=364pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Varda
She drops a bit from the last run-through of this list, because well, Tolkien Gateway awards her no more points than Tyler. But she is still the highest ranking Vala outside of he who possibly ultimately became evil incarnate because of her rejections of him. You don’t suppose, had Varda been a bit shallower and less discerning, Arda would have been a world of bliss from the beginning. There wouldn’t be much stories to tell, however! (As it is, from Manwe’s standpoint, she’s definitely the Lady…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR4if4ble1A
#39 Éowyn, White Lady of Rohan and the Lady of Ithilien (f) – rohirrim lady
[TG:76,EoA15,Wik:35,RF:21,JT:25,MD:83,DD:39,JR:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:11,UT/HM:32,HoF+:30=369pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Eowyn
I’m glad she chimes in as the top person of Rohan, her brother just on the other side of the top-40. She’s also the highest-ranking person to have no hint of extraneous life: all dúnedain and númenoreans of course have extended lifespans; Húrin & Túrin early in the cosmology are painted as immortals of the sky, like Earendil; and Tuor is hinted at being accepted as an Elf, in the end. Then there’s Éowyn, who gets 30pts, not from votes on the initial thread of ‘important’ characters that inspired this list, but on the several favourite-character lists that I included way back (making her the 8th favourite, in fact). Well-earned and deserved I say. (Her song, while conceived to be derogatory, I think appropriately encapsulates her love-life…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqMl5CRoFdk
#38 Eru Ilúvatar, the One – god all-father
[TG:52,EoA:7,Wik:20,RF:19,JT:4,MD:61,DK:6,JR:2,JG:2,LR/SL/CH:29,UT/HM:153,HoF+:20=375pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Il%C3%BAvatar
God being at #38 proves this is not the list of the most important entities of the Legendarium. He plays a significant role, but lacks of course in stage presence! Where he would be #1 on such another list, and is called The One, and ‘One’ is a song by both U2 and Metallica (different songs) that usually rank high, and I considered them both for the longest time; there was only ONE choice for the #38 classic rock song of all time, and that comes from the quiet Beatle…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kNGnIKUdMI
#37 Elendil the Tall, High King of Arnor & Gondor – arnorian dúnadan king
[TG:56,EoA:5,Wik:18,RF:28,JT:39,MD:4,DD:32,DK:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:38,UT/HM:94,HoF+:60=376pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elendil
Who surpasses God in the Legendarium? Well, 37 characters apparently, that the Story could not have been told without! Elendil’s father was back around #120; his son is still to come; as is a distant descendant. (When the Island sinks, we’ve got somewhere to go…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL3nFxSoApE
#36 Melian the Maia, Queen of Doriath and mother of Lúthien (f) – maia queen
[TG:41,EoA:24,Wik:18,RF:26,JT:23,MD:49,DD:33,DK:7,JR:6,JG:1,LR/SL/CoH:13,UT/HM:137=378pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Melian
I can only assume, as a mother, that you would want a daughter to be all she could be, and more than you. Consider that fulfilled. But Melian was much more important to the Story than just that. She was a Maia who entered Middle-earth, waylaid and married one of the 3 Elf ambassadors on his way to Valinor, was a Queen and Protector of Doriath until it fell, advising against the Silmaril-seduced leanings of her husband and King, ultimately witnessing a dwarf-lord parade into her chamber bearing his decapitated head, and finally escaping Middle-earth in heartache as her daughter and son-in-law were dealing with life, death, immortality, a Silmaril, and the Fate of the World!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dhq7eWpjn8
#35 Gil-galad, 2nd High King of the Elves of Middle-earth – noldo king
[TG:88,EoA:16,Wik:29,RF:26,JT:76,MD:1,DD:26,DK:5,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:20,UT/HM:86,HoF+:20=394pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gil-Galad
His lineage, and the controversies, probably boost his standing, rather than detract from it. He did however become High King of the Elves in Middle-earth after Thingol for an Age (parts of 3), however you want to do the math; was an original Ring-bearer, possibly a holder of 2 of the 3 for a time; fought Sauron in combat, perishing; and even made it into Jackson’s movies! Not a bad résumé. (For almost all of his life, his homes have been, well you know the geography…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHEOMTlOaFE
#34 Glaurung the Golden, Father of Dragons and the Great Worm of Morgoth – fire-drake
[TG:107,EoA:14,Wik:15,RF:32,JT:38,MD:4,DD:32,DK:2,JR:4,JG:1,LR/SL/CH:13,UT/HM:129,HoF+:4=395pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Glaurung
Yes, right here at #34! If he can’t be any higher, he certainly shouldn’t be any lower. (Speaking to any member of the family of Húrin…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeXqtzusIU0
#33 Fingolfin, 2nd son of Finwë and 4th King of the Noldor – noldo king
[TG:61:,EoA:14,Wik:16,RF:30,JT:94,MD:2,DD:35,DK:7,JR:5,LR/SL/CH:10,UT/HM:90;HoF+:35=399pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Fingolfin
His 35pts from the favourite-character lists I used way back rank him 6th place on that account. He isn’t ignored either by all resources, including Rateliff, Kane, Day, Drout, Foster, and especially Tyler, who gives him the most points (3pgs in my copy), the first sentences of each paragraph reading thusly: “Fingolfin was accounted by the Noldor the bravest of the three sons of Finwe… The long story of the deeds of the Elves’ first High King in Exile is stirring, yet ultimately tragic and wasteful… Fingolfin was proclaimed High King of the Noldor in the first Year of the Sun…Fingolfin and his people now occupied Hithlum and Mithrim as their realm… Alone of the High-elven kings of old, Finwe wedded twice…”. And the concluding sentence: “And in the deeds which followed [Finwe’s] murder (for such it was) Finwe’s house was laid low, and two of his three sons were slain, even as he had been, and by the same foe, and for the same cause – the Silmarils”. (An exception to a top-100 ranking, I couldn’t resist this band having not appeared yet, though it being at the risk of editing-out by some parties ;) ...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJRkdYreV1w
#32 Thorin II Oakenshield, King of Durin’s Folk and King Under The Mountain – dwarf king
[TG:146,EoA:10,Wik:21,RF:16,JT:44,MD:50,DD:29,JR:35,HC:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:5,UT/HM:20,HoF+:23=401pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Thorin
He’s the first character to accumulate 400pts here, almost averaging 10pts per resource I used. Well, one dwarf remains, so no surprise who it will be…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8RYJh6d0l0
#31 Círdan the Shipwright, Lord of the Falathrim – sinda lord/mariner
[TG:147,EoA:15,Wik:68,RF:24,JT:54,MD:1,DD:29,DK:2,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:15,UT/HM:42,HoF+:3=401pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Cirdan
Most of what I said of Gil-galad almost applies to this legend. (But a better, and more appropriate song than Gil-galad’s, I’ve had pegged for this Lord waiting by the Sea for 3, 4, 5(?) Ages…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btLuzjHbCUU
glossary:
*=as in CT's indexing in UT (ie. characters not appearing in Hobbit/LotR/AdvTB/Sil)
@=guest at Bilbo’s Farewell Party
(f)=female (n)=neutral
POINTS: TG=Tolkien Gateway,EoA=Encyclopedia of Arda,Wik=Wikipedia,RF=Robert Foster’s Complete Guide to Middle-earth,JT=J.E.A. Tyler’s Tolkien Companion,DD=David Day’s A-Z of Tolkien,HC=Humphrey Carpenter’s Biography,JG=John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War,JR=John Rateliff’s History of The Hobbit,DK=Douglas Kane’s Arda Reconstructed,MD=Michael Drout’s Tolkien Encyclopedia,Let=Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien,LR/SL/CH=Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Children of Hurin,UT/HM=Unfinished Tales, History of Middle-earth,HoF+=votes from the Hall of Fire thread that initiated this project + a composite of selected favourite character lists.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Aug 10 2015, 1:30am
Post #3 of 14
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Can't wait to see what they are!
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'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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sador
Half-elven
Aug 10 2015, 12:15pm
Post #4 of 14
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I feel I've overshot the mark with my previous answers, so I'll try to keep to the format of earlier responses. Sorry.
40 Varda Elbereth
Had she been shallower! Now that's a curious thought...
38 Eru Ilúvatar
Arguably, not an invented character (at least, I think that's how JRRT would see it); and also, he should be either no. 1 or not on the list at all.
But obviously, once you've set out with this project, he couldn't be left out, and couldn't make it to the top ten.
37 Elendil the Tall
The only song in this installment I completely didn't know; although there were several others I would never have thought of.
And 60 points on HoF? I would have at least expected some comment about this from you.
35 Gil-galad
I suppose the controversy did indeed boost his standing rather than detract from it. I've looked up the Tolkien Gateway entry, and am not sure it is entirely accurate. And I would say that being Angrod's son was Tolkien "last" decision, rather than "final" - especially as he never tried retrofitting this conception to the rest of the history.
I remember you've said this song will appear - was it for me? If so, thank you!
I didn't know, of course, whether this would be a song for Gil-galad or Cirdan, as it could have easilty worked for both. If for Cirdan, I was hoping that Gil-galad would be a Beach Boy, say Heroes and Villians? My candidate for Cirdan's song was Sunny Afternoon, with the lines "Help me, helpe me, help me sail away / or give me two good reasons why I ought to stay..." - but I didn't really think that would be your pick.
34 Glaurung the Golden
I was expecting this song for Melian, as a matter of fact; and while Fogerty is great, I was hoping for Screamin' Jay Hawkins original.
But there you are - if Summertime would fit anywhere on this list, should one take the Zombies' version, Billy Stewart or Janis Joplin? All three are brilliant in their different ways.
33 Fingolfin
Were you hinting at me?
Well, it is true that Motley Crue are not my favourites, but I'm not editing out anything from this list - it is yours!
The only thing I did was after copying your list into a worksheet, I've been adding to it other songs which I connect with the said characters. And even this, only if you did not put these song elsewhere - for instance, in no. 67 I did put your song for Nienor (although I've suggested it might better fir her father), and The Days Between which Voronwe suggested as an alternative; my own pick appears anyway in the list, so it stays there...
By the way, like Nienor and Hurin - I think the song you've chosen for Fingon would fit his father very well. Is this a pattern? And just in case you're interested, my initial guess was Queen's Hammer to Fall.
31 Círdan the Shipwright
I character I personally am greatly intrigued by, and find his ranking a pleasant surprise (well, I'm not emotianlly invested in the rankings, but you know what I mean).
Interestingly enough, his Tolkien Gateway ranking is exceptionally high - around a hundred points more than some of the others on this list. Whatever you make of this.
Anyway, thank you again for this list!
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Dân o’Nandor-on-Anduin
Rivendell
Aug 10 2015, 6:46pm
Post #5 of 14
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#30 Faramir, Prince of Ithilien – gondorian dúnadan ruling-prince
[TG:110,EoA:14,Wik:65,RF:17,JT:32,MD:47,DD:23,JG:1,HC:1,Let:2,LR/SL/CH:18,UT/HM:38,HoF+:38=406pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Faramir
Making the top-30 might seem pretty high for this younger brother, but let’s not forget he is who Tolkien likened himself to the most. Garth even notes this in his Tolkien and the Great War, following it up by saying “Faramir, of course, is an officer but also a scholar, with a reverence for the old histories and sacred values that helps him through the bitter war”. Along with entries in Drout and Day, Faramir even makes Carpenter’s Biography, as he notes letters written to CT in 1944: “A new character has come on the scene (I am sure I did not invent him, I did not even want him, though I like him, but there he came walking into the woods of Ithilien) - Faramir, the brother of Boromir – and he is holding up the ‘catastrophe’ by a lot of stuff about the history of Gondor and Rohan. If he goes on much more, a lot of him will have to be removed to the appendices”. I think he deserves his place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEgXe-gQxX4
#29 Arwen Undómiel, Queen of the Re-United Kingdom of Arnor & Gondor (f) – noldo queen
[TG:117,EoA:14,Wik:53,RF:20,JT:15,MD:53,DD:36,DK:1,JR:3,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:25,UT/HM:50,HoF+:20=408pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Arwen_Undomiel
Is her standing boosted slightly, on Tolkien Gateway & Wikipedia, due to Jackson’s use of her? Possibly. (But it also makes my song choice, with Arwen’s ‘other’ dad, rather easy, though the lyrics certainly don’t apply…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvKF3WQYADk
#28 Isildur, 2nd High King of Arnor & Gondor – gondorian dúnadan king
[TG:91,EoA:4,Wik:40,RF:25,JT:55,MD:7,DD:32,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:19,UT/HM:56,HoF+:85=415pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Isildur
Of his line (after Elrond), he is the 2nd last who’ll appear. No question, one of the most important characters to the Story. In fact, getting 4 votes on the initial thread of most important characters in the Legendarium; only 4 characters getting more votes! That it was he who preserved the line of the White Trees, and that Sauron no doubt would have remembered his faithful deeds back in Númenor, furthers his importance, and in a positive light, not the negative one that he ultimately displays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyqffz7K7aU
#27 Húrin Thalion, 7th Lord of the Third House – 3rd-house adan lord
[TG:64,EoA:11,Wik:31,RF:35,JT:58,MD:2,DD:34,DK:12,JR:4,JG:1,LR/SL/CH:20,UT/HM:120;HoF+25=417pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/H%C3%BArin_Thalion
He gets the most points awarded thus far from Kane’s Arda Reconstructed. Surprisingly, he gets no points from the initial thread of most important-characters, though he gets a healthy 25pts from the favourite-character lists. I don’t think I added to those lists, but Húrin would’ve gotten a 2nd place vote from me if I had.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJx5626euOo
#26 Tuor Eladar, father of Eärendil and Lord of the House of the Wing of Gondolin – 3rd-house adan lord
[TG:155,EoA:8,Wik:25,RF:31,JT:101,MD:3,DD:26,DK:4,JR:2,JG:2,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:19,UT/HM:75,HoF+:13=465pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tuor
The largest jump in points is now taken, as Tuor surpasses Húrin by 48! With Faramir, Arwen, Húrin and Tuor in the same batch of 5, I think this can be considered a class of valedictorians. And since Isildur was only stained by the Ring, as were others of prominence, he can join arm-in-arm here with the other band members. (No not a Beatles song, but if you can’t connect these lyrics with Tuor, you’re really not trying very hard…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWdrtR8qXYs
#25 Legolas ‘Greenleaf’, Prince of the Woodland Realm – sinda prince
[TG:192,EoA:54,Wik:55,RF:18,JT:33,MD:58,DD:24,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:9,UT/HM:38,HoF+:22=504pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Legolas
He who, according to Tolkien, accomplished the least of the Fellowship, opens the top-25, and also begins those characters exceeding 500pts! His 192pts from Tolkien Gateway is the most tallied thus far in a single segment of my spreadsheet, and will take character #20 to equal that number from UT/HoMe, and character #17 to surpass it with 213pts from the Encyclopedia of Arda. Legolas is followed just below by his eventual brother-in-arms. (Both of whom gave me the most difficulty coming up with the perfects songs, and although not a top-100 contender, I owe this next late suggestion for Mr. Greenleaf to Sador of TORN…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot7tG5LWmRY
#24 Gimli ‘Elf-friend’, Lord of ‘the Glittering Caves’ of Aglarond – dwarf lord
[TG:145,EoA:16,Wik:50,RF:26,JT:33,MD:95,DD:27,JR:6,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:15,UT/HM:50,HoF+:40=504pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gimli
He’s exactly tied in points with Legolas, appropriately enough, though Gimli has more points from the literary sources that provide indexed pages, thus he has the tie-breaker. His 40pts from the favourite-character lists I used ranks him 4th overall on that account! (The first song is the perfect one for Gimli in my opinion, as the older Bradley Delp even had a certain dwarvish resemblance, but the second might be closer to the 24th greatest rock-song of all time…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPqy2_Sux6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzxHx-mOqRI
#23 Glorfindel, Lord of the House of the Golden Flower of Gondolin – noldo lord
[TG:155:,EoA:36,Wik:55,RF:20,JT:78,MD:45,DD:29,DK:1,JR:2,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:9,UT/HM:54;HoF+:23=508pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Glorfindel
I guess I had more than an objective role in influencing his points, as it was I who wrote his entry in Drout’s Encyclopedia. But I was given a word-limit! In it, I reference Tolkien’s late conclusion (HoMe12), that Glorfindel of Rivendell was one and the same entity, though reincarnated, as Glorfindel of Gondolin; so all resources totalled ‘both’ of their points. I’m not sure that any other character comes close to having 2 roles as vital as Glorfindel, saving heroes central to the stories of the First and Third Ages, along with their respective quests, companions, and items. (Just consider Garfunkel of Gondolin, and Simon of Rivendell…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVDg8fVC4EQ
#22 Peregrin I ‘Pippin’ Took, 32nd Thain of the Shire @ – hobbit thain
[TG:130,EoA:18,Wik:57,RF:31,JT:72,MD:72,DD:34,JR:2,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:23,UT/HM:90,HoF+:15=545pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Pippin
Like Legolas & Gimli above, Pippin and Merry follow each other, coming just shy of the top-20. (And since I seem to be honouring those who have passed on recently…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRzKUVjHkGk
#21 Meriadoc the Magnificent ‘Merry’ Brandybuck, Master of Buckland @ – hobbit master
[TG:129,EoA:8,Wik:26,RF:48,JT:102,MD:71,DD:35,JR:7,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:20,UT/HM:80,HoF+:22=549pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/.../Meriadoc_Brandybuck
If you’ve always thought that Merry was an awkward name that took a little getting used to, consider that he was Marmaduke Brandybuck for the longest time in the drafts! His references under that name maybe contributed to him just beating Pippin. (This song-choice was virtually a dead heat, as lyrics apply in both, and both are among the greats. It was probably Wilko185’s comments in this TORC thread that began my swaying back-&-forth: http://forums.theonering.com/...hp?f=27&t=107069…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylbRDXKSauQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StkKW61XYnI
glossary:
*=as in CT's indexing in UT (ie. characters not appearing in Hobbit/LotR/AdvTB/Sil)
@=guest at Bilbo’s Farewell Party
(f)=female (n)=neutral
POINTS: TG=Tolkien Gateway,EoA=Encyclopedia of Arda,Wik=Wikipedia,RF=Robert Foster’s Complete Guide to Middle-earth,JT=J.E.A. Tyler’s Tolkien Companion,DD=David Day’s A-Z of Tolkien,HC=Humphrey Carpenter’s Biography,JG=John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War,JR=John Rateliff’s History of The Hobbit,DK=Douglas Kane’s Arda Reconstructed,MD=Michael Drout’s Tolkien Encyclopedia,Let=Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien,LR/SL/CH=Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Children of Hurin,UT/HM=Unfinished Tales, History of Middle-earth,HoF+=votes from the Hall of Fire thread that initiated this project + a composite of selected favourite character lists.
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sador
Half-elven
Aug 12 2015, 11:30am
Post #6 of 14
(1433 views)
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A long tirade - and about a character who is not even one of my favourites!
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30 Faramir
Judging by my profile page, he is my favourite LotR character, so I won't complain about his high ranking. And it is intersting to reflect that at first, even Tolkien did not want him... as well as comforting to bid him farewell in Many Partings, hand in hand with the woman he loves.
I know I've said I won't burden you with the tally of my own opinions about music, but as so often you have picked Beatles' songs and I had other ideas, that it is nice that for once our roles are reversed, and one of my picks would have been I Wanna Hold Your Hand (with Let It Be, one of the first two Beatles songs I remember - although I probably first heard it in Dollar's version).
For the record, my other choice would be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2LTiBwGNvo - based on his brother being sent out to Sea and his father burning himself, with the ominous words:
I will go now to my pyre. To my pyre! No tomb for Denethor and Faramir. No tomb! No long slow sleep of death embalmed. We will burn like heathen kings before ever a ship sailed hither from the West.
Happily, this was not wholly fulfilled.
29 Arwen Undómiel
Yes, her ranking was probably boosted due to Jackson; but arguably, this is a good thing. Tolkien did attach a great importance to Arwen, which goes unnoticed in the book, and even the appendices do not quite redeem. To quote Darkstone:
If the second film (Bakshi's) had happened I’d be throwing popcorn at the coronation going “Who is this elf chick? Marry Eowyn, you idiot!!” One great thing Jackson did was make me actually like Arwen and helped me understand why Aragorn would choose her over Eowyn.
28 Isildur
The first proper Ring-bearer to appear in this list - poor Deagol never had a chance to actually do anything with it. Curiously enough, the online resources don't give him that many points.
By the way, I forgot to ask - did you add the references from The Lost Road to Elendil's tally? Or to Ar-Pharazon's?
27 Húrin Thalion
Your second favourite! Who was your first?
The song I initially thought of for him was Ball and Chain; but as I saw that Voronwe commented about that song in HoF, I will hold my horses for the present.
26 Tuor
Now that was a brilliant pick of a song! I couldn't think of anything half as good. Applause!
25 Legolas
Thank you for the honorary mention.
I have a couple of other songs which I connect with him - I did once cite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5IHHXOXOMk in connection with him, and The Riders of Rohan put me in mind of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwzXD3HQexk.
By the way, I am pretty sure that at some point Tolkien did intend him to be the one and the same as Legolas Greenleaf of Gondolin; but there is absolutely nothing left of this idea.
24 Gimli
I am surprised you've found so much difficulty with him - not only both your picks are credible (even if I'm not a great fan of Boston), but also Voronwe had suggested in HoF Careful with that Axe Eugene for Bifur, and it fits really well with Galadriel's message to him (The White Rider)!
By the way, I have come to think of him as The Dwarf, and consequently of ELP's instrumental in Pictures at an Exhibition; but once I rummaged YouTube I found that in English Mussorgsky's piece was translated The Gnome, which makes it more appropriate for Finwe...
23 Glorfindel
So it turns out you are a Glorfindel fan, and a scholar in your own right. I am impressed! And I guess you are pleased by the fact that he passes both of the movies Glorfindel-surrogates - Legolas (in Bakshi) and Arwen.
On the other hand, I was never happy with having this awesome fighter do absolutely nothing after rescuing Frodo; and some of the action-fans in this forum have made him a hero of theirs, which I didn't quite like.
I think you were right in adding up the points of both Glorfindels, despite the curious effect of having him pass both Turgon and Tuor to become the highest-ranking Gondolin person in the list (well, except for a boy who is yet to come). My guess is that Tolkien saw him as Ecthelion's equal, but once Ecthelion did so much more in the fall of Gondolin, Tolkien invented another role for him. There is a note in a draft to LotR which has Glorfindel telling of his youth in Gondolin - and ever since Tolkien was identifying the two, and then shrinking away from that conclusion. In a way, Glorfindel became a prime vector for Tolkien's thoiughts, second thoughts and third thoughts about Elvish reincarnation - so his importance transcends the actual achivements of his character(s).
And I wholeheartedly approve of the song you've picked. I would have chosen it too, but perhaps for the wrong reason:
But the crafty Riders were not long deceived by Frito's ruse. They spurred their drooling swine to the bridge, intent on recapturing the boggie and his precious Ring. But, as Frito saw with surprise, the Black Nine were halted at the foot of the crossing by a figure robed in shining raiment.
"Toll, please," commanded the figure of the startled Riders. The pursuers were again dumfounded when they were directed to a hastily lettered sign tacked to a support: Elfboro Municipal Toll Bridge
Single Wayfarers . . . . . . 1 farthing
Double-axled Haywains. . . . . . 2 farthings
Black Riders. . . . . . . . . . . . 45 gold pieces "Let us cross!" snapped an angry Nozdrul.
"Certainly," replied the attendant pleasantly. "Now let's see, there's one, two . . . ah, nine of you at forty-five apiece, that makes . . . uuuuhh, four hundred and five beans, exactly, please. In cash."
Hurriedly, the Nozdrul searched their saddlebags as their leader cursed angrily and shook his slugger with frustration.
"Listen," he stormed, "what kind of dough do you think we make, anyhow? Ain't there some sorta discount for civil servants?"
"I'm sorry--" smiled the attendant.
"How 'bout a Wayfarer's Letter of Credit? They're as good as bullion anywhere."
"Sorry, this is a bridge, not a countinghouse," replied the figure impassively.
"My personal check? It's backed up by the treasure rooms of Fordor."
"No money, no crossee, friend."
The Nozdruls quivered with rage, but turned their mounts around, preparing to ride off. Before they left, however, the leader shook a gnarled fist.
"This ain't the end of this, punk! You'll hear from us again!"
Saying this, the nine spurred their farting porkers and sped away in a great cloud of dust and dung. Stomper and the other boggies ran to Frito, extending their congratulations on his escape. They then drew close to the mysterious figure, who approached and, espying Stomper among them, raised his hands in greeting and sang: "O NASA O UCLA! O Etaion Shrdlu!
O Escrow Beryllium! Pandit J. Nehru!"
Stomper raised his hands and answered, "Shantih Billerica!" They met and embraced, exchanging words of friendship and giving the secret handshake.
The boggies studied the stranger with interest. He introduced himself as Garfinkel of the elves. When he had shed himself of his robes, the boggies regarded with curiosity his ring-encrusted hands, his open-collared Ban-Lon tunic, and his silver beach clogs.
"Thought you would have been here days ago," said the balding elf. "Any trouble along the way?" "I could write a book," said Frito prophetically.
"Well," said Garfinkel, "we'd better make tracks before those B-movie heavies return. They may be stupid, but they sure can be persistent."
- Bored of the Rings, ch. III.
22 Pippin
This response has become long, so I will just say it's a nice thing of you to honour the late Joe Cocker; but I remember saying I was hoping for Fool's Overture for him (in #135), and your promising me a better song.
21 Merry
I did think of Proud Mary as a song yet to appear - but I put it up for Tolkien's most prominent Mary-figure, who admitted to Gandalf that she was still proud...
It is also interesting to find two Jimi Hendrix songs here, after nearly 150 songs without him. I think the Hendrix song I like best is Hey Joe - and it finally dawned upon me that it could work for Androg, who fled Dor-lomin after murdering a woman.
Keep up with the good work!
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Aug 12 2015, 3:45pm
Post #7 of 14
(1347 views)
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You keep up the good work too!
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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I greatly enjoy your comments (the longer the better!), so keep them coming. 
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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sador
Half-elven
Aug 12 2015, 6:22pm
Post #8 of 14
(1330 views)
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Dân o’Nandor-on-Anduin
Rivendell
Aug 12 2015, 6:23pm
Post #9 of 14
(1346 views)
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#20 Finrod Felagund, 1st King of Nargothrond – noldo king
[TG:87,EoA:8,Wik:14,RF:38,JT:45,MD:43,DD:35,DK:11,JR:6,LR/SL/CH:26,UT/HM:192,HoF+:46=551pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Finrod
Finrod is worthy of his top-20 status; his role in the ‘Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth’ being the main reason, I deem. He’s the second character to have scores in every column of my spreadsheet; Elendil at #37 was the first, due to his 1pt acquired from Kane. Finrod also now equals Legolas’ entry on Tolkien Gateway as the highest amount of points from any one segment of my spreadsheet at 192pts from UT/HoMe. He also has his own entry in Drout’s Encyclopedia, written by none other than Michael Drout himself, overlooking his Nauglamir inaccuracies. In it, Drout states “Finrod is in some ways the best of the High-elves: he is noble, generous, kind, valiant, mindful of his oaths, and genuinely devoted to Men”. (He certainly longed for a peace between all peoples…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8
#19 Beren Erchamion, 8th Lord of the 1st House of the Edain – 1st-house adan lord
[TG:71,EoA:9,Wik:33,RF:52,JT:58,MD:69,DD:45,DK:10,JR:10,JG:4,HC:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:40,UT/HM:150,HoF+:46=599pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Beren
His entry in Drout’s Encyclopedia by Paul Edmund Thomas, reads, “Tolkien referred to the story of Beren and his beloved Lúthien as ‘the kernel of the mythology’ and said it ‘arose from a small woodland glade filled with hemlocks (or other white umbellifers) near Roos on the Holderness Peninsula – to which I occasionally went when free from regimental duties while in the Humber Garrison in 1918’.” The character’s origin, as Thomas suggests, was actually earlier than that, as the ‘Tale of Tinúviel’ was written in 1917, but in it Beren was a Gnome, not a Man. Of course the lasting legacy of Beren can be considered his inscription of Tolkien’s gravestone. The ‘Wolvercote Cemetery’ entry in Drout’s Encyclopedia was written by none other than my own brother, and his concluding paragraph reads, “Unlike the Silmarillion, however, in which ‘none saw Beren and Lúthien leave the world, or marked where at last their bodies lay’ (S 188), Edith and Ronald are buried in plot L2-211. Small, simple way-markers point the way along the cemetery path to their grave”. (Since an original name for Melian was Wendelin, one can only assume that Beren’s pet-name for Lúthien was ‘Wendy’; and don’t ignore the imagery of B dropping dead onstage before continuing…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA4OWZ2a23Y
#18 Elrond Half-elven, Lord of Rivendell – peredhil lord
[TG:168,EoA:27,Wik:33,RF:31,JT:64,MD:49,DD:30,DK:1,JR:7,JG:1,Let:3,LR/SL/CH:37,UT/HM:72,HoF+:106=629pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elrond
He ranks 5th, with 106pts, on the grouping of the initial-thread + favourite-character lists: another Elf, 2 Hobbits, and a Maia, only outrank him. (The fact that Celebrian departed oversea first, even though Elrond’s great-great-grandmother was a Maia, was ironic in a way. But Celebrian’s great-grandmother was a niece of Ingwe. (And so, this can be considered a devotion from Elrond to his estranged wife…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7N0mY6FaRg
#17 Tom Bombadil, Master of the Old Forest – ??? master
[TG:87,EoA:213,Wik:61,RF:26,JT:40,MD:75,DD:28,DK:3,JR:3,JG:1,HC:1,Let:4,LR/SL/CH:22,UT/HM:52;HoF+:15=631pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bombadil
Yes, his entry in the Encyclopedia of Arda is gargantuan, and worth the most points of anything yet! But it may be proof why a composite of all sources I’ve used is desirable to generate a fair ranking. Tom may be, in some circles, only peripheral to the Story; but he is definitely one who possibly generates the most debate in all of the Legendarium. He also preceded a large part of it - as he was but a doll of Tolkien’s children. (Though his mind is not for rent, to any God or Government, don’t put him down as arrogant / his reserve is a quiet defense, riding out the day’s events / The River!! / Catch the mist, catch the myth, catch the mystery, catch the drift...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auLBLk4ibAk
#16 Eärendil the Mariner, Lord of Arvernien – peredhil lord
[TG:86,EoA:13,Wik:23,RF:32,JT:55,MD:62,DD:45,DK:3,JR:6,JG:7,HC:1,Let:2,LR/SL/CH:54,UT/HM:170,HoF+:103=662pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Earendil
One of his sons was 2 spots ago, and the other was back at #83. He is considered to be the one who inspired all of this! In 1914, Tolkien was inspired to seek out who he was from Old English Literature, specifically the poem Crist, and first wrote about this enigma in his own poem ‘The Voyage of Eärendel’ in September of that year. The rest is history; or pseudo-history, if you will. (His wife Elwing’s song was Skynyrd’s ‘Free Bird’, the imagery, though not the gender, being accurate. Likewise here…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGFlkcnZRFI
#15 Lúthien Tinúviel, Princess of Doriath (f) – sinda/maia princess
[TG:77,EoA:25,Wik:22,RF:43,JT:90,MD:82,DD:75,DK:11,JR:14,JG:2,HC:1,Let:2,LR/SL/CH:40,UT/HM:102,HoF+:87=673pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/...Athien_Tin%C3%BAviel
Not the last female that’ll appear, but close. If a story of Beren & Luthien itself was published, then maybe she would have made the top-10. Her roots through Melian can be traced to the very beginning, as well as her lineage to Eldarion in the Fourth Age. That Tolkien constructed a World where she is only #15 is what’s ultimately impressive!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0
#14 Witch-king of Angmar, Lord of the Nazgûl – ringwraith king
[TG:225,EoA:137,Wik:66,RF:66,JT:104,MD:1,DD:48,LR/SL/CH:18,UT/HM:34,HoF+:28=727pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/...Witch-king_of_Angmar
Yes he gets 428 of his points from online sources, setting a new high of 225pts from Tolkien Gateway, but note he gets only 1pt from Drout’s Encyclopedia, and none from Garth, Carpenter, Kane or Rateliff. I once again claim that he was to be the 3rd Dark Lord, that of the Fourth Age if Tolkien had gone ahead with his ‘New Shadow’ story. As is stated in LotR, upon his slaying by Merry and Eowyn, the Witch-king “was swallowed up and was never heard again in that age of the world”; and in a footnote to Letter #246, regarding his passing, Tolkien states the “Witch-king had been reduced to impotence”. This is a door left wide open. Fantasy writer Harry Turtledove goes even further in his article in ‘Meditations on Middle-earth’, as he wrote a manuscript in 1967 about the Witch-king in the Fourth Age, but claims he was not the individual from the December 1966 Letter #292!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9o78-f2mIM
#13 Elwë Thingol, 1st High King of the Elves of Middle-earth – sinda king
[TG:82:,EoA:32,Wik:21,RF:59,JT:156,MD:38,DD:60,DK:12,JR:17,JG:2,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:27,UT/HM:251;HoF+:3=761pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Thingol
Just as the Witch-king sets a record at 225 from Tolkien Gateway, Thingol eclipses it at 251pts from UT/HoMe! Early in the mythology, it was he alone who was the rebellious, prideful elf, more than Fëanor, as the latter had not been developed quite yet. But Thingol deserves his place, nearly astride the 2 other Elves of a prideful nature, that make it near the top of this list. (A song, not usually ranked this high, but since it's virtually the same title as a poem by Tolkien early in the mythology, and the lyrics are appropriate, we'll go with it...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bD9t44JUD4
#12 Galadriel, Lady of Lothlórien (f) – noldo princess/ruling-lady
[TG:203,EoA:27,Wik:60,RF:52,JT:48,MD:78,DD:41,DK:7,JG:1,HC:1,Let:3,LR/SL/CH:56,UT/HM:118,HoF+:77=772pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Galadriel
Her entry in Drout's Encylopedia was written by Jason Fisher. In it he states "Understanding the evolution of Galadriel's personal history is fraught with challenges... Initially [Tolkien] depicted Galadriel as a willing participant in the Noldor's rebellion against the Valar... much like Fëanor - 'proud, strong, and self-willed' - but she disliked and distrusted him. However, she was moved by his entreaties because she 'had dreams of far lands and dominations that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage' (Peoples, 387)". (This video should be forever edited in Jackson’s movie, over the part when Galadriel goes nuclear. A young prideful Galadriel and her struggles in Middle-earth, searching for her proper way to come home: Timpinen the Piper is calling her to join him in Eressëa, and when you have a rock like Nenya, you’ve got to roll with it…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcL---4xQYA
#11 Fëanor, 2nd King of the Noldor and maker of the Silmarils – noldo king
[TG:110,EoA:36,Wik:33,RF:45,JT:75,MD:47,DD:35,DK:15,JR:7,JG:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:30,UT/HM:108,HoF+:230=773pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Feanor
He got the most votes on the initial thread that inspired this list, as most important to the Legendarium, and may very well be. He just edges out Galadriel in points, someone who even Tolkien spoke about being almost as great an Elf in the end. Elves don’t make Tolkien’s top-10, neither will Zeppelin or Floyd. (Hey Valar, leave Eru’s Children alone!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBQsQoGodPY
glossary:
*=as in CT's indexing in UT (ie. characters not appearing in Hobbit/LotR/AdvTB/Sil)
@=guest at Bilbo’s Farewell Party
(f)=female (n)=neutral
POINTS: TG=Tolkien Gateway,EoA=Encyclopedia of Arda,Wik=Wikipedia,RF=Robert Foster’s Complete Guide to Middle-earth,JT=J.E.A. Tyler’s Tolkien Companion,DD=David Day’s A-Z of Tolkien,HC=Humphrey Carpenter’s Biography,JG=John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War,JR=John Rateliff’s History of The Hobbit,DK=Douglas Kane’s Arda Reconstructed,MD=Michael Drout’s Tolkien Encyclopedia,Let=Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien,LR/SL/CH=Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Children of Hurin,UT/HM=Unfinished Tales, History of Middle-earth,HoF+=votes from the Hall of Fire thread that initiated this project + a composite of selected favourite character lists.
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Dân o’Nandor-on-Anduin
Rivendell
Aug 13 2015, 9:38am
Post #10 of 14
(1315 views)
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#10 Saruman the White, Head of the White Council and Chief of the Istari – maia wizard/chief
[TG:290,EoA:30,Wik:60,RF:51,JT:112,MD:77,DD:36,DK:1,JG:1,HC:1,Let:2,LR/SL/CH:36,UT/HM:72,HoF+:8=777pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Saruman
He sets a new high of 290pts from any one source, that being Tolkien Gateway here, as the link above will attest. Of course it is exceeded again by the character below. (This song will no doubt be frowned upon by some, but in my opinion no better choice…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jDvEbT0hb8
#9 Bilbo Baggins @ – hobbit landowner/burglar
[TG:321,EoA:33,Wik:42,RF:37,JT:48,MD:97,DD:42,DK:2,JR:18,JG:1,HC:1,Let:4,LR/SL/CH:39,UT/HM:70,HoF+:49=804pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bilbo
We now surpass 800pts per character, and by the 4th Hobbit below, we’re nearly at 1000! Bilbo’s giving up the One Ring willingly has to be atop the list of his many achievements. Of course being urged by Gandalf, and having retirement in Rivendell to look forward to didn’t hurt either. (So because of this one monumental act, I attribute to him this song…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtTDChGpXY8
#8 Sméagol ‘Gollum’ – stoor-hobbit outlaw/thief
[TG:171,EoA:30,Wik:75,RF:72,JT:82,MD:127,DD:52,JR:6,HC:1,Let:4,LR/SL/CH:44,UT/HM:44,HoF+:100=808pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gollum
Bilbo may have surpassed him, if The Hobbit had an index. But of course Gollum would have gotten a few more points too. (The singer's name should not be overlooked in the mix either...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHXIm6MaNLw
#7 Samwise Gamgee, 7-time Mayor of the Shire – hobbit gardener/mayor
[TG:110,EoA:16,Wik:51,RF:38,JT:114,MD:80,DD:33,JR:2,JG:1,HC:1,Let:8,LR/SL/CH:42,UT/HM:110;HoF+:214=820pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Samwise_Gamgee
Sam places 2nd for points on both the initial ‘important-character’ thread that inspired this list, as well as the composite of ‘favourite-character lists’ that I used. First place on each belongs to a different character, however. One can argue that he is the real hero of the Story. Of course this list is more objective than that. (Sam was not his mother’s only son, but then neither was Ronnie Van Zant…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHQ_aTjXObs
#6 Frodo Baggins @ – hobbit ring-bearer
[TG:262,EoA:44,Wik:35,RF:41,JT:88,MD:133,DD:35,DK:2,JR:6,JG:1,HC:1,Let:5,LR/SL/CH:64,UT/HM:104,HoF+:171=992pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Frodo_Baggings
He’s the only one that I’ve specifically attributed the occupation of ‘Ring-bearer’, as it was a reluctant task that he willingly undertook, and truly was his main life’s work. Interestingly, the only source that gives Frodo more points than any other character is Drout’s Encyclopedia, with the 3-page article written by Michael N. Stanton. He scores 3rd on the initial ‘important-character’ thread, 6th on the ‘favourite-character’ lists, and is of course the highest-ranking Hobbit here. (This choice was just an extension of Bilbo's, acknowledging the hardships endured by the younger generation in both cases...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UofocL1vcA8
#5 Túrin Turambar, the Black Sword and Bane of Glaurung – 3rd-house adan outlaw/counsellor
[TG:154,EoA:39,Wik:102,RF:86,JT:157,MD:60,DD:37,DK:18,JR:4,JG:3,HC:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:52,UT/HM:250,HoF+:36=1000pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Turin_Turambar
He’s the first character to reach a 1000pts, and has the largest entry on Wikipedia, just edging out Aragorn below. The number of stories we have of Túrin, stretching back to the beginning of the mythology add to his score, along with the number of names and epithets he has gone by. His 18pts from Kane is the most thus far, and he ranks 5th on the ‘favourite-characters’ lists composite. The only column of my spreadsheet having 0pts for Túrin is the initial ‘important-character’ thread. Seeing as the Second Prophecy of Mandos was never passed on by CT in any of the main novels, I suppose his role in it, only slaying the original Dark Lord at the end of time, gets overlooked. His entry in Drout’s Encyclopedia is by Richard C. West, and it finishes with “Tolkien’s mythology provided for an ultimate happy ending after the apocalyptic ending of the world, when it is prophesied that Túrin and his sister will be cleansed of their sin, and Túrin will assist the forces of Good in overthrowing Morgoth and the forces of Evil”. (Tolkien had a Devil put aside for him…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0dbGGvsjf8
#4 Aragorn II, King Elessar, 1st King of the Reunited Kingdom of Arnor & Gondor – arnorian dúnadan ranger/king
[TG:237,EoA:123,Wik:99,RF:83,JT:62,MD:115,DD:55,JR:11,HC:1,Let:3,LR/SL/CH:77,UT/HM:186,HoF+:93=1145pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Aragorn_II_Elessar
Each character is now surpassing the next by over a hundred points. That Aragorn scores higher than Túrin is probably poetic justice, Aragorn being the 63rd great-grandson of Túrin’s first cousin. They can duke it out separately over who has the most monikers in total! Incidentally, all of Trotter’s indexed points were absorbed by Aragorn, being essentially the same character in terms of role. Interesting how Túrin remained very much the same character over nearly 50yrs of Tolkien’s writings, yet Aragorn morphed from a hobbit with wooden shoes to his eventual pseudo-Arthurian status rather late in the scheme of things. (Okay I’ll say it, we have the return of the King, and a tribute to Arwen…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pciMvPoeu0w
#3 Melkor the Morgoth, the Black Foe of the World – ainu/fallen-vala lord
[TG:209:,EoA:98,Wik:77,RF:131,JT:75,MD:86,DD:53,DK:24,JR:13,JG:5,HC:1,Let:3,LR/SL/CH:69,UT/HM:350;HoF+:70=1264pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Morgoth
A new height is reached, as the first Dark Lord acquires 350pts from UT & HoMe. And, yes, his 24pts are the most to any individual from Kane. Prior to the release of The Hobbit (the novel), he was the undisputed mover & shaker in Tolkien’s writings. And even HoMe10, post-LotR material, is named after, and further explores, him. (There are better versions, but the context of the real-life tragedy is everything here; and VtF will no doubt note how the Dead took the high road here…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt0ipUCfdlU
#2 Sauron the Deceiver, the ‘Nameless’ Enemy and Dark Lord of Mordor – maia lord
[TG:230,EoA:113,Wik:85,RF:178,JT:175,MD:80,DD:84,DK:2,JR:39,JG:1,HC:1,Let:5,LR/SL/CH:91,UT/HM:262,HoF+:86=1432pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Sauron
He is the Lord of the Rings, after all, and of many more names and disguises. Tevildo, Prince of Cats, was an early one, whose points were included in Sauron’s. He’s demoted from his #1 status on the last run-through of this list, and it is poetic justice indeed, by he who supplants him. (Just be glad I didn’t use Lords of the Ring by Styx. Nine lives, cat’s eyes…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA
#1 Gandalf the Grey/White @ – maia wizard
[TG:511,EoA:74,Wik:81,RF:91,JT:109,MD:115,DD:63,DK:2,JR:21,JG:1,HC:1,Let:5,LR/SL/CH:83,UT/HM:162,HoF+:186=1505pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gandalf
When all is said and done, by end of LotR and of the Third Age, Tolkien’s Story can be thought of as Gandalf’s story. Not until I included Tolkien Gateway did he stride atop this list. His 511pts, seen in the massive link above, establishes the highest single score awarded on this list. Sauron eluded his ultimate defeat in the Second Age with sorcerous cunning. Gandalf was sent by the Lords of the West to make sure this didn’t happen again. (I have heard this as #1 on a list long ago, and of course liked how it followed Stairway. The last line of course parallels Sauron’s replacing Morgoth as the new dark boss, certainly not Gandalf’s replacing Saruman…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htz9CS-Zmms
There she be. For those that have followed and have enjoyed this, I’m honoured!
:)
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sador
Half-elven
Aug 13 2015, 10:57am
Post #11 of 14
(1298 views)
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I am still going through the previous post, and because of Voronwe's encouraging post, will still comment on it (hopefully later today) and this new and final one (perhaps on Sunday).
But as I just saw you have posted this, I hurry to thank you for the tremendous effort you've put into the whole preoject.
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Dân o’Nandor-on-Anduin
Rivendell
Aug 13 2015, 11:20am
Post #12 of 14
(1304 views)
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You asked awhile ago about Pelendur's song, as its one of those prohibited songs in some countries (??). It's 'Boogie With Stu' by Led Zeppelin, as I had the long list of Stewards being fulfilled by Rod Stewart & Ian Stewart. The latter, in this case, seems to get a bye with the Stones, but not with Zep. I switched the video after you warned me about its prohibition, but I think its always been OK'd on TORC (UK?), so I think you can go to the TORC website if all else fails, but it is an inferior video than I originally had. :)
As for my 1st favourite Tolkien character before Hurin, that woud be his son.
And I'm glad you've seconded my musical pick for Tuor, because VtF thought it was a weak pick. You must have actually acknowledged the lyrics, and not only equated them with the character, but recognized the greatness of the song itself.
I appreciate all you say about Glorfindel, especially the Bored of the Rings quotes. And I'll submit that the space you take in responding to him further supports his ranking! ;)
Once again, thanks for the interest and all the kinds words.
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sador
Half-elven
Aug 13 2015, 4:02pm
Post #13 of 14
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Of all kinds - both in the rankings, and in the assigned songs.
20 Finrod Felagund
A surprise, and a pleasant one - had I been asked to make a wish-list of the top-20, I would have put him in - but I hardly expected him to actually be there.
The song you've chosen is another matter: Finrod was an idealist, but Tolkien would have probably recoiled in horror from John Lennon's Utopia. It is a classic, and must be somewhere on the list; but I think it does not fit Finrod.
I'm not going to burden you with all the alternative songs I've been thinking of for each character (I'm trying to keep to three songs per character in my spreadsheet, which sometimes requires assigning songs to less important characters) - but in this case, I would prefer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PnJsD6V-XI, based on the Athrabeth.
19 Beren Erchamion
I know all the essential facts you've mentioned (except for your brother's involvement!), which is why I was quite shocked that Beren ended up in such a low place! I guess not having re-written the story in prose during the 1950s did not help - Christopher Tolkien does not even reproduce the 1937 version, assuring us that it is essentially the same as the printed one.
On the other hand, we have in The Lays of Beleriand a lovely critique of the early poetry version by CS Lewis, and the two parts of poetry which actually made it to the printed Silmarillion come from his story - Finrod's combat with Sauron, and Beren's song of farewell to the world.
Beren's trying to escape Luthien time and again, to keep her from danger, made me think of Dire Straits' Where Do You Think You're Going (we had only one of their songs, way down the list); and I also added Love Like a Man - because I couldn't stand the thought that the only Ten Years After song in this list entered it because you've mistook my intention in an old post!
I also considered Bo Diddley's I'm a Man, for Beren's defiance of Thingol; but decided it is better for Hurin words to Morgoth "You know not what moves Men's hearts" (quoting from memory). And in case you ask, the third song for Hurin is A Hard Rain is Going to Fall, recalling his bitter end.
18 Elrond
Another favourite character - and I for one even liked Hugo Weaving's portrayal of him in Jackson's films.
I love the song you've picked; and it is important to remember that when Elrond sailed to rejoin Celebrian, he had left all of their children behind. "Where do you think we're going / Now that all of the children have grown?"
Yes, in this list I have no less than three Alan Parsons' Project song suggested - Games People Play for Elrond, Eye in the Sky for his father and Amonia Avenue for Galadriel. That's another act I really like.
The other song I have for Elrond is even less known, so I'll add a link - a better-known song with the same name has appeared above, but I think the lyrics of this fit Elrond very well.
17 Tom Bombadil
The breakdown is staggering indeed. Although even had the EoA given him 200 points less, he would still be in the respectable 26th place.
And your not being sure how to classify him is, well, expected.
The song you've picked is obvious. For a long time I've had Dedicated Follower of Fashion in mind for Tom, as a tongue-in-cheek assigning (I'm not yet sure whether this is the last Kinks song in my list); but after my post of yeastersay, I realised home much of his nonsensical poetry could fit Billy Stewart.
16 Eärendil
Another pleasant surprise! And with the song I have originally guessed.
I say 'originally', because I've somehow understood the song would be Eight Miles High, which didn't seem the correct choice (so I've assigned it as Huor's second song). So it seems my original guess was correct.
I must say in my list I have been a bit high-handed myself, as I've put a song about Sirius, while Earendil is probably Venus. Should I put Shocking Blue? The third song I have is Shine on Crazy Diamond, but it could fit Feanor too, and he has only two songs as yet...
15 Lúthien Tinúviel
Another very surprising low ranking.
Perhaps you were right:
That Tolkien constructed a World where she is only #15 is what’s ultimately impressive!
On the other hand, the song came as a real pleasant surprise to me - I have nearly despaired of it!
Speaking of despair, after Beren passed away, she probably thought "G-d only knows where I'll be without you", so she went Knocking on Heaven's Door. I actually sort of expected Guns and Roses as the song for her, but once it was up to me, I've picked the original.
14 Witch-king of Angmar
I was really surprised when I found out that he made the top-20, and here he turns up at #14! Clearly, the online sources love the baddies... had he received from them as many points as Luthien did, he would be at #22.
This is another song I've guessed. And do love.
13 Elwë Thingol
The number of point he gets from HoME etc. is truly impressive - if I read aright the next post, only two characters pass him in that one.
I have said before that I was debating between Ingwë and him for a certain song, but I think it fits Thingol better, as after Cuivienen, he was entrapped in another Eden-like surrounding in Nan Elmoth - taking his love by the hand, and freezing there. And if you do not have a song which comes naturally to him, why not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIVe-rZBcm4?
And a last thing - Thingol is the subject of one of Verlyn Flieger's most powerful chapters in Splintered Light. So I couldn't help thinking of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaLuJNZvi6g.
12 Galadriel
So you've made it! I mean, finding a character for this song.
It appears that you are another one of the many who dislike Jackson's nuclear Galadriel. I once wrote about this - and basically, of her character. In case you are interested.
11 Fëanor
Yes, he is really important. The top elf, although I note with surprise that he did not recieve that many points from HoME - the massive rewritings of the early 1950s focued upon him less than some of the others. Otherwise he would surely be in the top ten.
No Pink Floyd, nor Led Zeppelin, in the top ten! Well, I sort of expected Ramble On for Gollum because of the passing reference to him, and was ready to argue against it; and in a previous thread, someone said this song reminds him/her of Aragorn!
And you can't find slots for all great songs; but as I confine myself to three per character, I hasten to use the last opportunity for Light My Fire.
On the other hand - there has been no Janis Joplin song in this list yet, and don't you think Feanor's famous speech exemplifies her dictum:
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose?
Thank you again! My comments on the top ten will probably only be posted on Sunday.
(This post was edited by sador on Aug 13 2015, 4:07pm)
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 13 2015, 4:22pm
Post #14 of 14
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Yes - how ironic, for Gar-- er, Glorfindel! //
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
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