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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 8 2015, 9:18pm
Post #1 of 68
(2163 views)
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How much could fit in 20 minutes?
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While I'm glad there will be an EE of the BOTFA  , like many others I'm rather disappointed  there will only be 20 minutes of additional footage rather than the 30 that was anticipated. In an attempt to make myself feel better, I referred back to the EE's of AUJ and DOS to get an idea of how much footage could possibly fit in 20 minutes.
Based on the list below of additional/extended scenes from AUJ and DOS, it appears quite a bit could fit into 20 minutes, and this is a comforting. At the same time with so many storylines that could be expanded on and need conclusions, I'm still a bit skeptical  if 20 minutes will be enough.
CLICK ON LINKS FOR MORE DETAILED LISTS
AUJ EE - 13 additional minutes
http://www.theonering.net/...edition-scene-guide/
1. Prologue - Additional footage of Thranduil at Erebor.
2. Prologue - We get to see a little bit more of Smaug flying overhead.
3. Prologue - Little Bilbo playing with Gandalf on Midsummer's Eve. Belladonna features in this scene.
4. Bilbo visits the Hobbiton market.
5. Additional footage of the dwarves raiding the pantry, and Bilbo getting more and more annoyed.
6. Additional footage of the Company after they’ve escaped the Orcs, and into the secret passageway to Rivendell.
7. Extended scene at Rivendell as the dwarves are eating, Kili flirts with a female Elf then tries to play it of when Dwalin gives him a stern look.
8. After Gandalf explains to Elrond how they found Glamdring, Elrond inquires why he is traveling with 13 Dwarves and a Halfling.
9. Bofur's song
10. Bilbo wandering around the Last Homely House.
11. Additional scene with Elrond and Bilbo
12. Elrond and Lindir find the Dwarves swimming in a fountain.
13. Bilbo overhears Gandalf and Elrond talking about the quest and the "madness" that run deep in the line of Durin.
14. White Council meeting extended, Gandald speaks of Thrain's ring.
15. extended scene of the Dwarves before the Goblin King. Includes Gobkin King's song.
DOS EE - 25 additional minutes
http://www.theonering.net/...edition-scene-guide/
1. Extended scene of Gandalf and Thorin in Bree, includes flashback of Thorin and Thrain at the Battle of Azanulbizar.
2. Extended scene of the Dwarves meeting Beorn
3. As the Dwarves head out from Beorn's, he tells Gandalf of an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the sorcerer of Dol Guldur. In this same scene Gandalf tells Beorn of rumors of the dead walking near the high fells of Rhudaur. - Flashback to the burial of Angmar.
4. At the borders of Mirkwood Ganalf warns the Company of the enchanted stream in the woods.
5. Dwarves find the enchanted stream and try to cross. Before he can make it to the other side, Bombur falls asleep.
6. Thorin sees a white stag and attempts to shoot it.
7. Additional scene of the Dwarves carrying Bombur through Mirkwood.
8. Additional scene of the Master of Laketown complaining about Bard while eating Mountain Oysters.
9. Dwarves try to escape the Lake-town Guard as they make their way to Bard's house.
10. Alfrid tells the Master how the people are speaking of the prophecy.
11. Extended scene of the Dwarves they before the Master and the Lake-men, after they are caught smuggling weapons form the Lake-town armory
12. After the Dwarves leave in the boat for Erebor, Alfrid compliments the Master on his handling of the Dwarves. Fili and the others stop them asking for help on Kili's behalf.
13. Additional footage of the dwarves and Bilbo climbing the Lonely Mountain, and arriving at Dale. A thrush flies by them.
14. Gandalf enters Dol Guldur, meets Thrain and tells him Thorin is taking back Erebor.
15. Gandalf see an army of Orcs and Wargs leaving Dol Guldur. This leads into Gandalf's confront ion with the Necromancer. Thrain is killed.
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Aug 8 2015, 9:47pm
Post #2 of 68
(1982 views)
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When Bard is locking at the tapestry you can see Alfrid hiding and spying and hear the people talking about the prophecy.
A woman is saying "Silver and gold and jewels beyond measure." at the same time. And that is not in the theatrical version.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 8 2015, 9:57pm
Post #3 of 68
(1955 views)
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I did forget one. Thank you.
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Cirashala
Valinor
Aug 8 2015, 11:10pm
Post #5 of 68
(1874 views)
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a lot can happen in 20 minutes
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As you have done very well proving 
I think if the extra 20 minutes are of excellent quality and do not add anymore Tauriel and Legolas unless it absolutely MUST be done to make sense (which I doubt it does) and it doesn't add anymore Alfrid, I think it will be sufficient. The 13 minutes in AUJ, Goblin King's terrible "rock song" notwithstanding, were gems that really improved the film, despite the low minute count.
And there's hope that some scenes are restructured entirely ***cough***Ravenhill***cough*** which, though not increasing runtime, drastically improves the film and gives characters like the three mentioned above a more proportionate, acceptable percentage of screentime than the disproportionate amount they currently possess.
And please PJ, I beg you- WE NEED MORE DWARF INTERACTION!
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droidsocket
Lorien
Aug 9 2015, 2:04am
Post #6 of 68
(1767 views)
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I would be so happy if most of the additions were on the company!
But please no more Legolas.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 9 2015, 2:36am
Post #7 of 68
(1752 views)
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I would be so happy if most of the additions were on the company!
But please no more Legolas.
Or Tauriel, or Alfrid, and personally - unless it's a bonding moment with his brother - I could also do without more Kili. 
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brotherbeck
Rivendell
Aug 9 2015, 3:25am
Post #8 of 68
(1724 views)
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If I *really* try to stay positive and hopeful, I do have to admit that a whole lot can be fit into 19 minutes and 56 seconds. Especially if the filmmakers still stick with the brisk, thriller-like pace. Little several second additions here and there can do a lot. Simply a few quick shots of Balin taking charge of the remaining dwarves of the company when Thorin leaves for Ravenhill with his best warriors would tremendously improve the film for me. Even if Beorn still ends up only having that one sequence, if they at least allow that sequence to play out to a more natural conclusion instead of simply cutting away just as he enters the fray it would be far less jarring and abrupt and anticlimactic.
I think back to the shots of Bilbo walking around Rivendell in the EE of AUJ - these scenes don't take up very much time at all but they are absolutely magical and sublime.
Even though I really do not think the film needs more action and fighting, some of the action sequences really could use some improvement in the editing department, namely Smaug vs. Laketown, Dol Guldor, and the titular battle, especially it's climax and resolution. Aside from that, I really hope they use the rest of the extra time to more fully develop and flesh out the main characters of the story and their relationships.
I have a very bad feeling though that PJ is gonna really double-down on things like Alfrid and Legolas and shove even more of them into the longer version of the film. On one hand I really have to give it to him on how confident he was with changing the shape of the story so much with these films, but on the other hand I honestly feel like most of the stuff he added was silly and pointless at best and absolute garbage at worst.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 9 2015, 3:55am
Post #9 of 68
(1710 views)
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Even though I really do not think the film needs more action and fighting, some of the action sequences really could use some improvement in the editing department, namely Smaug vs. Laketown, Dol Guldor, and the titular battle, especially it's climax and resolution. Aside from that, I really hope they use the rest of the extra time to more fully develop and flesh out the main characters of the story and their relationships.
I agree, while I would like to see the bulk of the time used for character development, the fight sequences do need improving as well. While Smaug attacking Lake-town and the Battle before Erebor could use some added scenes - i.e. Smaug destroying the windlance - aside from cleaning up the cgi I do not feel Dol Guldur needs any expansion.
I have a very bad feeling though that PJ is gonna really double-down on things like Alfrid and Legolas and shove even more of them into the longer version of the film.
Sadly, I agree with this too.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Aug 9 2015, 4:47am
Post #10 of 68
(1679 views)
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I want the Dwarf hero moments!
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I want to see Fili take out a few Orcs before getting captured by Azog! I want to see the Chariot scene! More Dain, more Dwalin, more Dwarves in general! I do NOT want to see any more Alfrid, not even his death, don't waste another second on him. But, as much as I dread it, I want the Funeral of the Durins, complete with Gandalf's speech so I can cry my eyes out - yeah, call me crazy but that's what I want. I know all that can be done with just 10 minutes, so I'm not being greedy here. If the other 10 minutes could include a little interaction between Thorin & Fili, then that would be icing on the cake. I could put up with just about anything else, even more Tauriel (but NOT Alfrid) if I could get these things!
Basically more Dwarves - especially THIS guy!
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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squiggle
Rivendell
Aug 9 2015, 4:50am
Post #11 of 68
(1675 views)
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A lot can be done in 20 minutes
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I thought AUJ went from really good to great with it's 10 or so in my scientific scale 
for fun, this is what i would go for:
flashforward scene of potential Smaug running amuck on armies, like the painting showed which was here a while back.
Further Tauriel resolution - I like to think that it was after her performing the healing elvish magic scene on Kili, that she was feeling the after effects of it's magic in BoTF and that she somehow has become a greater elve maiden from it all, who it is intimated will becomes Thranduills de-facto queen, breaking his traditions of her lowlier status and helping him get over the loss of his wife.
Dol Guldor, with more Saruman and Galadriel stuff.
Rhadagast - seeing some form of Rhadagst magic in play, which is peculiar to his mastery of colors and hues, when in combat.
Beorn being a bear more.
Bard's new alliance with the Dwarfs and Thranduill.
Alfrid soaring over the battlefield into the mouth of a giant troll 
I'm perfectly content with everything else, although would welcome more.
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Aug 9 2015, 5:23am
Post #12 of 68
(1650 views)
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Sometimes I forget that PJ specifically told us that each dwarf would get a "hero moment." It's one thing to promise that and not include it in the theatrical cut. But if we don't see them in the EE, I'm going to be really upset. I'd much rather have more dialogue scenes, but if they're going to add more action, at least give us some stuff with the characters that have actually been there from the beginning.
I can even forgive some over the top silliness when it involves the dwarves. Maybe I'm just being picky, but when Legolas has crazy stunts, it feels like they're trying too hard to pander to the crowd that just wants a rehash of Legolas's LotR moments. And it's harder to feel invested in Legolas when for the most part he just feels forced into the story. Ravenhill took it to a ridiculous level, and it wasn't just the ridiculous stunts themselves. It was the way they seemed to be trying so desperately hard to direct your focus to Legolas when two of the main characters (or characters that SHOULD have been main characters) had just been killed, and another one was having a climactic battle with a major villain. It's like if they suddenly decided to have a five minute battle between Gamling and a random orc captain and cut back and forth between that and Frodo at Mt. Doom.
I know this has all been said over and over since the film's release, but I can't help but vent about how much of a mess that part of the movie ended up being.
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Elanor of Rohan
Lorien
Aug 9 2015, 9:53am
Post #13 of 68
(1518 views)
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Legolas doing his stunts on the broken stairs
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and Fili lying in the snow, no more to be seen, or missed, or remembered (or mourned) by ANYONE.
I think this sums it up. It will be difficult to mend such approach to the story (who cares about Dwarves, when you can enjoy Elvish hero stunts, or Elvish crying scenes later on..).
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Aug 9 2015, 10:19am
Post #14 of 68
(1501 views)
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I can even forgive some over the top silliness when it involves the dwarves. Maybe I'm just being picky, but when Legolas has crazy stunts, it feels like they're trying too hard to pander to the crowd that just wants a rehash of Legolas's LotR moments. And it's harder to feel invested in Legolas when for the most part he just feels forced into the story. Ravenhill took it to a ridiculous level, and it wasn't just the ridiculous stunts themselves. It was the way they seemed to be trying so desperately hard to direct your focus to Legolas when two of the main characters (or characters that SHOULD have been main characters) had just been killed, and another one was having a climactic battle with a major villain. It's like if they suddenly decided to have a five minute battle between Gamling and a random orc captain and cut back and forth between that and Frodo at Mt. Doom.
I realised that the writing was on the wall when I saw Legolas's ridiculous flea-jumping moments in the barrels scene in DoS, as well as the amount of time (and advertising) that was allocated to both him and Tauriel in that film. I did have a hope (a fool's hope?) that given the amount of criticism there was about these aspects of DoS, the film-makers would tone it down a bit for the final film. On the contrary, however, the Legolas stunts were brought to a climax of idiocy in that film.
I'd say that none of the Legolas stunts in LotR were even close to as bad as they were in DoS and film three of The Hobbit. That's probably because they were mercifully brief and subsumed by other stuff that was very good. Similarly, the gross moments in LotR were subtle as compared to the awful toilet 'humour' and other such things in The Hobbit. What was done in The Hobbit when it came to these things was completely wrong for the story – and particularly for a work based on Tolkien's book. Moreover, it was done while leaving key aspects of the story unexplained and several characters without the development that would have hugely benefitted the films.
Why the film-makers chose to doggedly pursue this path, despite many signs that a large proportion of audiences disliked them, is beyond me. However, I suspect it is due more to self-indulgence/perhaps arrogance on someone's part than to anyone else.
Bitterly disappointed.
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Kelly of Water's Edge
Rohan
Aug 9 2015, 11:09am
Post #15 of 68
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the big things the 20 min. need to accomplish for the established fandom are to add the funeral scene - preferably with Thranduil's presence to more firmly wrap up that storyline, add a bit more of Beorn - preferably inxcluding showing him accompanying Bilbo and Gandalf on the first stretch of Bilbo's journey home, and maybe a brief glimpse of Dain being established as King. If all that happens, I'll be happy.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 9 2015, 11:32am
Post #16 of 68
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Yes, I'd go along with those....
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With some of the small moments between characters that have characterised all the previous EEs. Mostly those have been things not in the book - the unexpectedness is something I've always enjoyed.
Of course there are things I'd like to see, but that's a different question. For example, I'd love to see something like Thranduil's parting from Bilbo as it happens in the book, but I'm not expecting it or hoping for it.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Aug 9 2015, 12:43pm
Post #17 of 68
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Did the announcement of the new 25 minutes of DOS?
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Include de rearranged footage?
I mean, there were more than 25 new minutes then...
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 9 2015, 1:26pm
Post #18 of 68
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No, the additional 25 does not include the arranged footage
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I am looking at my copies of the TE and EE of DOS as I write this. The TE runtime is 161 mins; the EE 186 mins.
186 - 161 = 25
So, the 25 minutes is 100% added footage.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Aug 9 2015, 1:30pm
Post #19 of 68
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those 20 minutes given to botfa are added things but no the rearranged ones?
That´s cool, I enjoyed an awfull lot DoS EE because f this rearrangementes besides the new scenes
Then Ii feel some sections of the film could be huge changed, and Im thinking in DolGuldur here wich I feel is gonna suffer a huge change
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 9 2015, 1:58pm
Post #20 of 68
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There is still hope there may be ten minutes of altered/replaced footage. Though I'm not sure what would be altered/replaced, especially in the first half of the film.
In re to Dol Guldur, aside for the cgi - because IMO it was the weakest of the film - I really do not feel it needs any changes or additional footage. Taking into consideration what is to come in FOTR - because these films are meant to be watched back-to-back with LOTR - it's a complete scene. Aside from more fighting - which I will admit there are areas where the fight sequences need some improvement, but not Dol Guldur - I'm not sure what could be changed or added to this particular scene.
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Aug 9 2015, 2:03pm
Post #21 of 68
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The sequence of moments involving Gandalf''s rescue and departure is not 100% clear/ transitions seem a bit abrupt, in the opinion of some. It has been speculated that something involving Galadriel and Sauron or Nazgul was skipped, that would explain more clearly why she seemed weakened when Gandalf invited her to leave with him on Radagast's sled, before her eyes suddenly glowed white and she confronted Sauron.
I can imagine some 60 seconds of additions here making things clearer.
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Aug 9 2015, 2:06pm
Post #22 of 68
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According to Philippa Boyens the three will have more to do in the EE.
And Galadriel is speaking in Black speech.
(This post was edited by Smaug the iron on Aug 9 2015, 2:08pm)
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Aug 9 2015, 2:10pm
Post #23 of 68
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Weel regarding the rings and Benedict
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He did mocap for Sauron, wich in the EE is completely still like statue. In the weta chronicles there is a concept art for Sauron wich I find amazing that is a man with the great eye floating in his head, like a cyclop. I hope we get to see that, some fleshy Sauron or a more detailed manifestation of what he is at the moment beside the armour...
The three rings have to appear because they are a key point in DOS EE Dol Guldur plot, so it needs to be clarified why the necromancer is so interested in the dwarven rings (Thrain´s) and thus Sauron is revealed we should get some introduction to him and why he is interested in the rings, etc...
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true
Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 9 2015, 3:00pm
Post #24 of 68
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The sequence of moments involving Gandalf''s rescue and departure is not 100% clear/ transitions seem a bit abrupt, in the opinion of some.
I just watched the sequence. In re to Gandalf's rescue: he's being beat by an orc when Galadriel arrives and using her powers (or the power of the ring) blows the orc away. We just don't see it, because the scene pulls out to a wide shot of Dol Guldur and the glow of her powers can be seen coming over the fortress. The next scene we see Galadriel carrying Gandalf through Dol Guldur. Putting the pieces together, IMO it seems clear how he was rescued. 
As for his departure...the only thing I could possibly think would be unclear about it, is how Radagast and Gandalf escape without being stopped by orcs.
It has been speculated that something involving Galadriel and Sauron or Nazgul was skipped, that would explain more clearly why she seemed weakened when Gandalf invited her to leave with him on Radagast's sled, before her eyes suddenly glowed white and she confronted Sauron.
I'm not sure if Sauron or the Nazgul have much to do with her weakening in this moment. First, Sauron has not yet arrived on the scene and second, the Nazgul are rather busy fighting Elrond and Saruman to give too much thought to Galadriel.
The kiss. Galadriel kisses Gandalf's forehead and instantly he regains consciousness. I always thought she may have transferred some of her strength to him...hence her brief state of weakening.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Aug 9 2015, 3:18pm
Post #25 of 68
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Aren't the three rings bore by Galadriel (Nenya), Elrond (Vilya), and Gandalf (Narya)? Also, if the moment is added, has it been said if the rings will only be mentioned in dialogue or will their combined powers be displayed?
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