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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
is 4K LOTR remaster inevitable and profitable?

Oscarilbo
Lorien


Aug 3 2015, 6:19pm

Post #1 of 13 (14609 views)
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is 4K LOTR remaster inevitable and profitable? Can't Post

Hi guys.. I was watching this trilogy again last week, and I think remastering the entire trilogy at 4K may be inevitable. I mean, they are not a modest success series of films, is The Lord of the Rings trilogy, which by the way is in its way to 15th and 20th anniversary.

Not only that, but I don't think having The Hobbit trilogy at 3D, but NEVER the LOTR trilogy at 3D is how this saga is envisioned for home entertainment (and cash grabbing) purposes, at least secretly.

I know for a true 4K remaster, all the SFX would have to be re-rendered in 4K due to the fact that when they were created they were done at 2K, while filmed elements were mastered at 4K. But I think now is pretty possible as long as the studio see it profitable, so..

I think if a movie (or trilogy in this case) would benefit from doing this, it has to be The Lord of the Rings for the following reasons:

-Now The Hobbit trilogy exists, some LOTR scenes would have to be adapted, particularly in the Fellowship of the Ring prologue with young Bilbo finding the ring.
- It would also mean the opportunity to convert it to 3D, which again, from a studio point of view is very very tempting. And with this, as I said before, being on its way to a 20th anniversary, would absolutely mean a perfect way to celebrate, for both fans and studio, and not only for a home re-release, but for a whole cinema re-release.

Thats why this could result in a very profitable big project.

With bluray resolution as the original trilogy is right now, it is in a pretty inconsistent SFX quality, and not only that, but the resolution give up a lot of tricks just as wig lines, and doubles and scale doubles faces in a lot of scenes. I cannot imagine how this would be augmented once the movies are inevitable updated to 4K without a properly invested remaster work, the way Ridley Scott did it with Blade Runner (not George Lucas way).

What do you think? I think LOTR 4K is certainly inevitable, but would a proper remaster be profitable ?

"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"


Bofur01
Lorien


Aug 4 2015, 7:03am

Post #2 of 13 (14544 views)
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I'd love it! [In reply to] Can't Post

But the Hobbit was only mastered in 2K as well...


Oscarilbo
Lorien


Aug 4 2015, 12:35pm

Post #3 of 13 (14531 views)
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I just learned that ! [In reply to] Can't Post

So The Hobbit was filmed in 5K (or 6, dont remember correctly) but ultimately with vsfx at 2K???

The reason I'm personally interested in a remastered version, more than the ultra high resolution, is the fact that it may be a great opportunity to add a leyer of realism and fix here and there all that CGI and tricks that are betrayed by High Definition, such as CGI textures and the now so evident doubles and scale doubles faces through the trilogy.

Do you thing is this possible to a degree without having to wait for a complete 4K remaster?

"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 5 2015, 11:59pm

Post #4 of 13 (14464 views)
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I think it will be coming sooner than you think... [In reply to] Can't Post

UHD (4K) Blu-rays are coming this Christmas, and I imagine something like LotR will be a pretty early release for the new format, certainly The Hobbit will, since they'll be able to show off the higher frame rate (UHD Blu-rays go up to 60fps)

UHD offers a clean slate for WB to release LotR in a more cohesive manner, I think it'll be something like this:

2016/17 - Theatrical Editions (with no added assets)

2018/19 - 3D Extended Editions (with added assets, new Gollum, Martin Freeman in the prologue etc.)

2021 - 20th Anniversary set with previously unreleased deleted scenes

2026 - 25th Anniversary superdisc, with new retrospective commentary from PJ and added assets to tie in better with the Silmarillion TV show.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 6 2015, 12:04am)


Arandiel
Grey Havens

Aug 7 2015, 4:53am

Post #5 of 13 (14406 views)
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I have a bad feeling about this... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink
If
Jackson et al can resist the urge to go all George Lucas - reediting, changing music, fiddling with things, etc - it could be good. But to this day, the one and only change in Star Wars I have any respect for is the additional scene between Han and Jabba in the original movie. I smell a debacle if they don't tread very carefully...


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Bofur01
Lorien


Aug 7 2015, 8:08am

Post #6 of 13 (14395 views)
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They don't support 48 though... [In reply to] Can't Post

See this: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1422517486


balbo biggins
Rohan


Aug 8 2015, 3:10pm

Post #7 of 13 (14337 views)
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never gonna happen [In reply to] Can't Post

if you just take the visual effects,they would only be made at the output resolution needed, i dont know what that was for LOTR but it defiitely wasnt anywhere near 4k. so it would involve going back to the cgi files and literally doing them again to do it properly, things like animation wouldnt need to be touched, but texture files, matte paintings, renders etc etc would have to be redrawn , you might get lucky with some things that were made at higher resolution than originally needed but youd have to open every single file to check, it would take a mammoth task and thats just the cgi!

you could just blow it up to 4k, but thats lame and the blu ray player could do that anyway.


Oscarilbo
Lorien


Aug 8 2015, 4:31pm

Post #8 of 13 (14333 views)
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well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I just watched Fellowship and Two Towers, on my 60" tv on full HD, and MY GOD. it looks beautiful... CGI work much better in that size and resolution. The textures and physicality are perfect enough.

What strikes me is the fact that, just as PJ said in a very old Return of the King interview... Darkness (and lack of definition back then of course) allowed them to hide some "little sins", and I did notice some of them:

Right when we see the first moving beautiful shot at Helm's Deep (the one with the Rohan's theme just after Eowyn arrives with women and children) you can notice without a problem that the man walking down under the little bridge, two of them have their cloaks strangely erected and stiff, almost completely parallel to the ground, two other man are like literally mixed up together while walking, and you can see how a man walking far behind another man, suddenly superimpose to the one closer to us, while walking. This are of course little errors in the massive CGI program.

And of course you can see this if you pay attention to that part of the screen in that moment, but intuitively you just look there, but it is there, and the more resolution and size, the more evident it will become. But again, physicality and texture are great in this bigger experience.

So the question is... will PJ fix this kins of details for future editions ?

"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"

(This post was edited by Oscarilbo on Aug 8 2015, 4:36pm)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 8 2015, 5:01pm

Post #9 of 13 (14332 views)
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They could do what Netflix are planning... [In reply to] Can't Post

And interpolate frames so that The Hobbit runs at 60fps. Netflix have said that when the US version gets The Hobbit they're planning to run it at 60fps for people with LG OLED TVs. Apparently the high refresh-rate of the TV allows them to do this (which I don't understand, since many video games already run at 60fps).


balbo biggins
Rohan


Aug 8 2015, 9:11pm

Post #10 of 13 (14304 views)
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hrtz? [In reply to] Can't Post

isnt that standard on most modern tvs anyway? on my lg its called trumotion, thats what the hrtz means when you look at your tv specs. if i turn it up to high it makes films look a bit odd, essentially like the 48fps of the hobbit but just repeating the frames. its good for animations, makes everything seem more smooth. It couldnt play a high frame disc of somekind though as i presume technically its not compatible.


(This post was edited by balbo biggins on Aug 8 2015, 9:13pm)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 8 2015, 9:41pm

Post #11 of 13 (14291 views)
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Yes and No... [In reply to] Can't Post

So, "Hrtz" is just the refresh rate of your TV.
TVs used to be 50 or 60hz (displaying up to 60 images every second). Modern HD TVs display much higher, my current TV goes up to 600hz (which is exceptionally high). So HZ just refers to how many times your TV refreshes the picture each second.

But the content is all basically 24fps - The TV will display each single frame multiple times to avoid strobing. So if your TV is 240hz, each single frame will display 10 times and it will just look normal. Cinema projectors actually flash each image three times. It doesn't look artificial or weird in any way.

But for most TVs the numbers won't add up and that can cause judder. For example 24 won't go into 100, so a TV refreshing at 100hz uses a "pull-down" technique - displaying some frames twice and others three times - creating a subtle, but noticeable stuttering. Particularly if the camera is panning slowly. (you may have noticed it on the map shot in AUJ?)

Netflix plans to use this in order to display 48fps footage at 60fps. It has a perfectly natural and fluid look and at such a speed the judder will likely be undetectable.

Trumotion (or motion judder canceler or any other name) is a different technique. Instead of simply displaying the frames multiple times the TV attempts to create artificial frames in-between the existing ones. Essentially "photo-shopping" up to 50% of the frames. Some TVs will "photo-shop" every frame to artificially reduce the motion blur. This has a really weird and artificial look and often causes noise and artifacts around fast-moving objects.

I hope that made any sense to you Laugh


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 8 2015, 9:47pm)


balbo biggins
Rohan


Aug 8 2015, 10:12pm

Post #12 of 13 (14280 views)
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cheers [In reply to] Can't Post

sort of lol

i guess what im getting to is that in a perfect world your tv would be capable of converting anything it has inputed rather than having to rely on netflix your player or some other magic portal. Also the quicker we get to losing those ugly blu ray players and tv boxes the better! one day maybe!


TheHutt
Gondor


Aug 13 2015, 1:34pm

Post #13 of 13 (14140 views)
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Actually... [In reply to] Can't Post

I am pretty sure that the DI (digital intermediate) which was the base of all postproduction work on LOTR, was scanned only in 2K. So in fact, 4K would not bring ANYTHING at all, as all the source materials on LOTR would be 2K only.

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Booklet - Custom Booklet Project


 
 

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