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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea
Aug 2 2015, 3:04am
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Seeking feedback on a Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire critique
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I would guess that there are quite a few Tolkien and Middle-earth Legendarium fans, probably quite a few Tornsibs here, who are also Harry Potter fans. I'm one. I've read all the Harry Potter books and seen all the movies with enjoyment.
However, I do have one beef that I wanted to share here. I might bring it up in a Harry Potter forum at some point, but currently I don't participate on any such forum, so I thought I'd try to get some feedback here first.
Here is my beef: Harry Potter and The Goblet of Fire (the 4th book) was my least favorite title of all the seven books (and eight movies). Why? Because it was the least apt to the plot of that book.
The other books were named after something central to the plot. In Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's (or Philosopher's) Stone, the book was about the Stone, obviously. In the second book, it was all about the Chamber of Secrets. Each book's title is named after something central to that book's plot...except for the fourth book, wherein the story isn't really about the Goblet of Fire much at all. Once Harry and the other Triwizard Tournament contestants picked their names, the Goblet's role in the story was done-de-done-done-DONE. Sayonara Goblet. Its involvement in the plot ceases even less than halfway through it.
But the Triwizard Cup? That item becomes rather important, and not only because it's the trophy that each Triwizard Tournament competitor wants to win, but also because of how it's used toward the end. (Avoiding spoilers). One might suppose that a better title would have been Harry Potter and the Triwizard Cup. But that is not what I'm suggesting.
BETTER YET, my suggestion would have been to MERGE the Goblet and the Triwizard Cup into the same item. The Goblet would serve not only as a device to select representatives from the participating schools, but also as the trophy for the tournament winner. It should be made smaller than the Goblet, and more trophy-like. It could still be a "goblet". It could also serve the same plot function that the Cup served in the book and in the movie (avoiding spoilers.) That change would make the title "Goblet of Fire" more apt to the plot.
I realize the Goblet was supposed to be some kind of powerful magical artifact and, due to its history, might not have been suitable for use as a trophy for that tournament. I question whether it really had to be written that way. It could have been written as an artifact that was not only magically powerful in its own right but also designed to be given to the tournament winner, to be kept by the winning school until the time would come for the next tournament.
Thoughts on this? I wonder if this idea has been brought up before? Has anyone heard of it being discussed previously? Thanks!
***
Eru Ilúvatar lived in a timeless state,
Then he created the Ainur to sing his magnum opus. Wait….
The one who had most power,
Melkor, sang his section sour,
Ilúvatar got rather dour,
He sang Eä! (he let the Ainur in).
Melkor, in jealousy, he sought to mar the symphony
That all started with the first word. (BANG!)
https://youtu.be/lhTSfOZUNLo
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Arandiel
Grey Havens
Aug 2 2015, 9:21pm
Post #2 of 24
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Authors don't have final say on their books' titles, so I don't know if the decision behind this one was Rowling's or the publisher's. (Tolkien was overruled on the title of Return of the King - he felt that title was too spoilery, apparently).
I suppose one could argue that the goblet is the physical catalyst for Harry's involvement in the tournament - the thing that gets the plot rolling. And 'goblet of fire' as a phrase rolls better than 'Triwizard Cup'. But it does seem a rather less apt title for the book than the other ones for theirs. Actually, 'catalyst' strikes me as a good way of summing up the way all the other titles in the series work - they all are named for the relationship that serves as the main catalyst of the story in their particular books. Maybe 'Harry Potter and the Triwizard Tournament' would capture that relationship better? Or, as you said, making the goblet of fire and the Triwizard Cup the same object; then, the published title would fit right in with the HP titles convention.
Walk to Rivendell: Walk with the Fellowship Challenge - grab a buddy and let the magic live on, one step at a time.
Join us, Thursdays on Main!
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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea
Aug 3 2015, 12:35am
Post #3 of 24
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Thanks for the reply, and for backing up my critique of the book title.  Like you said, the Goblet served as a catalyst, and wasn't entirely unrelated to the central conflict of the plot, but could have been more so.
About who chose the title, you make a good point Arandiel. It might not have been JKR's preference or final decision any more than ROTK was JRRT's.
in fact, just to add to that, I have reason to believe that Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire was almost going to be called Harry Potter and the Doomspell Tournament. (Not sure how commonly known that is.)
I know that because I saw a promotional poster for the then-upcoming Harry Potter book, which according to the poster was to be called Harry Potter and the Doomspell Tournament. The poster appeared in the showcase window of a Borders Bookstore located on Route 10 in Livingston, New Jersey. I couldn't swear to when it was exactly, but it was definitely sometime before the fourth book was released and well after the release of Prisoner of Azkaban. I was surprised by the title "Goblet of Fire" when that book came out.
I wonder if "...and the Doomspell Tournament" had been a working title, and whether it was Rowling who came up with it (and if so, whether it was her first choice). If so, perhaps Rowling, or someone higher up, eventually rejected it, in which case maybe because it was too spoilery. I might guess that "Goblet of Fire" ended up being chosen because it was not spoilery.
Thanks again Arandiel!
One more thing--one reason for my thoughts about Harry Potter lately is that I will be going to Orlando, Florida at the end of August, where I will visit the Harry Potter theme partk for my first time. I've been looking forward to that for years.
***
Eru Ilúvatar lived in a timeless state,
Then he created the Ainur to sing his magnum opus. Wait….
The one who had most power,
Melkor, sang his section sour,
Ilúvatar got rather dour,
He sang Eä! (he let the Ainur in).
Melkor, in jealousy, he sought to mar the symphony
That all started with the first word. (BANG!)
https://youtu.be/lhTSfOZUNLo
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Arandiel
Grey Havens
Aug 3 2015, 8:16pm
Post #4 of 24
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I think I prefer the sound of 'Triwizard Tournament'...
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to 'Doomspell Tournament' *shudders*
Have fun at the amusement park - tell us how it goes!
Here's my beef with the movie: turning all the Durmstarngers into boys and all the Beauxbatons into girls - as if, somehow, Central & Northern Europe were more masculine and France more feminine (femine?). Really?!?
Walk to Rivendell: Walk with the Fellowship Challenge - grab a buddy and let the magic live on, one step at a time.
Join us, Thursdays on Main!
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zarabia
Tol Eressea
Aug 4 2015, 12:48am
Post #5 of 24
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I had actually forgotten that the Goblet of Fire and the Triwizard Cup were two separate things.  Or rather, I forgot the Triwizard Cup, misremembering that the Goblet of Fire was the prize at the center of the maze and the object that had been turned into a portkey. So, in my mind, i *had* merged the two.  But now that you bring it up, it doesn't seem the most appropriate title.
I think Arandiel makes a good point about editors having a big influence on titles. However, by the time GoF came out, I would think Rowling would have had carte blanche. But to me, GoF has more "oomph" as a title than Triwizard Cup.
Have a wonderful time!!! I know someone who just got back from there and loved it.
You realize that life goes fast
It's hard to make the good things last
You realize the sun doesn't go down
It's just an illusion caused by the world spinning 'round
~Do You Realize?, The Flaming Lips
(This post was edited by zarabia on Aug 4 2015, 12:57am)
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zarabia
Tol Eressea
Aug 4 2015, 1:00am
Post #6 of 24
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Ooh! That bothered me, too! :P
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Here's my beef with the movie: turning all the Durmstarngers into boys and all the Beauxbatons into girls - as if, somehow, Central & Northern Europe were more masculine and France more feminine (femine?). Really?!?
You realize that life goes fast
It's hard to make the good things last
You realize the sun doesn't go down
It's just an illusion caused by the world spinning 'round
~Do You Realize?, The Flaming Lips
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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea
Aug 4 2015, 1:27am
Post #7 of 24
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You mentally merged them, how awesome! 
I've heard that it's immersive and well-themed. I can't wait to go!
However, I just know I'll be comparing it to Tolkien and Middle-earth the whole time. I imagine staring about at the interior of Hogwarts Castle or of the lobby of Gringott's bank, thinking, "This is cool! But it would be even cooler if this were [Bag End / the Last Homely House at Rivendell / Calas Galedhon at Lothlorien / the road up the seven levels of Minas Tirith]...." When I sit down to eat at the Leaky Cauldron for some shepherd's pie, I'll be thinking of Bilbo's pork pies and seed cakes. When I try their Butterbeer (the cold version, probably) I'll be thinking of Miruvor or Dorwinion. When I watch the Durmstrang/Beauxbaton Spirit Rally, I'll be thinking about a live re-enactment of Eowyn v. Witchking.
As a Middle-earth fan I can't help but feel a bit jealous that the Potter-philes (or Potterheads, or Muggles, or whatever their fandom name should be) have their own theme park.
I should probably try not to let that get in the way of my enjoyment. I think I will enjoy it. I certainly intend to do so.
***
Eru Ilúvatar lived in a timeless state,
Then he created the Ainur to sing his magnum opus. Wait….
The one who had most power,
Melkor, sang his section sour,
Ilúvatar got rather dour,
He sang Eä! (he let the Ainur in).
Melkor, in jealousy, he sought to mar the symphony
That all started with the first word. (BANG!)
https://youtu.be/lhTSfOZUNLo
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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea
Aug 4 2015, 2:06am
Post #8 of 24
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Yep. "Doomspell Tournament".... kinda cheesy. A bit spoilerific too.
OK I'll give a report once I'm back. I'm full of suspense on how well it will go. On one hand, I've heard great things about how immersive and well-themed it is. That's why I want to go. However, I've also heard the the lines are crazy long.
It was quite questionable to see France portrayed as entirely femine, versus Central/Northern Europe (I took Durmstrang as being somewhere in Scandanavia, not sure) being all beefy testosterone. I tend to look to the book as the original culprit though. In the book, even if those schools were not necessarily all-girl and all-boy respectively, there were no notable males from Beauxbatons, and instead the only named Beauxbaton students happened to be related to the seductively siren-like uber-femine Veela.
Likewise (or should I say conversely), there were no notable female students from Durmstrang, and the only named Durmstranger student happened to be a star pro-athlete "boy" with somewhat neanderthal features (with a Lurch-like overhanging monobrow IIRC) and a thick Schwarzenegger-esque accent.
***
Eru Ilúvatar lived in a timeless state,
Then he created the Ainur to sing his magnum opus. Wait….
The one who had most power,
Melkor, sang his section sour,
Ilúvatar got rather dour,
He sang Eä! (he let the Ainur in).
Melkor, in jealousy, he sought to mar the symphony
That all started with the first word. (BANG!)
https://youtu.be/lhTSfOZUNLo
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Arandiel
Grey Havens
Aug 4 2015, 3:29am
Post #9 of 24
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especially given the pains Rowling seemed to go to undermining stereotypes in other aspects of the novels. sigh.
I hear ya on the lines - they're one of the main reasons I don't go to amusement parks if I can help it. But hopefully it'll be a fun trip for you & yours anyway!
Walk to Rivendell: Walk with the Fellowship Challenge - grab a buddy and let the magic live on, one step at a time.
Join us, Thursdays on Main!
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Aug 8 2015, 7:26pm
Post #10 of 24
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its being an element of the Triwizard Tournament makes it important enough. (Also, it is a cool sounding name, which I think matters).
I have encountered a similar complaint regarding the title of the sixth book. The titular character, the objection goes, is involved, under *that* name anyway, only in a minor plot line about one of Harry's textbooks.
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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea
Aug 8 2015, 9:37pm
Post #11 of 24
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Hi arithmancer, thanks for adding your feedback to this thread!
I agree, the 4th book title sounded cool. Too bad the Goblet's involvement in its plot came and went so early and briefly and had nothing to do with the ending.
As to the complaint about the sixth book title as you described, I hadn't heard that one before, and it made me double-check a summary of that book. In reply I would say nay, the titular character is of huge importance to the 6th book, and not just for the bit about the textbook. Textbook aside, the Half-blood Prince (HBP) played a key role in the ending in a shocking yet well-foreshadowed way.
The textbook alone became central to the main plot line in at least two ways:
[ARR, HERE BE SPOILERS]
One, the textbook made it possible for Harry to acquire the Felix Felicis potion. Harry used that to acquire the key secret from Slughorn, which not only led to the ending, and also helped wrap up the whole series.
Two, the textbook introduced Harry to sectumsempra. Harry's use of it unwittingly triggered a chain of events that pulled the HBP into the action in a way that called back his oath to Narcissa Malfoy in the first chapter, and which foreshadowed HBP's shocking involvement at the end of the book.
Speaking of which, the titular character becomes involved at the end in a hugely important (and shocking) way. Quite unlike the Goblet, which was entirely absent from the 4th book's climax.
It seems the 4th book is the only book in the series that does not involve the titular character(s)/object(s)/place in its climax. Right?
Just for fun, here's a list:
Sorceror's/Philosopher's Stone--->was the object of struggle in the climax.
Chamber of Secrets--->was where the climax took place.
Prisoner of Azkaban---> played an important part in the climax.
Goblet of Fire---> (absent from the climax. Instead, the Triwizard Cup was involved in the climax, with a twist. Merging the Goblet and the Cup would have been a possible solution.)
Order of the Phoenix ----> all of its members participated in the climax.
Half-Blood Prince---> played a key role in the climax, in a shocking but well-foreshadowed way, as discussed above.
Deathly Hallows----> those things, especially the Elder Wand, were involved in the climax.
***
Eru Ilúvatar lived in a timeless state,
Then he created the Ainur to sing his magnum opus. Wait….
The one who had most power,
Melkor, sang his section sour,
Ilúvatar got rather dour,
He sang Eä! (he let the Ainur in).
Melkor, in jealousy, he sought to mar the symphony
That all started with the first word. (BANG!)
https://youtu.be/lhTSfOZUNLo
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Aug 9 2015, 1:09pm
Post #12 of 24
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The complainers seemed to feel what the titular character did under another name should not "count". The spoiler you mention is an undeniably key event of the book and series!
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Aug 9 2015, 2:08pm
Post #13 of 24
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I wondered about that too then
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my daughter and I talked about it we came up with this:
The Goblet of Fire is not just the thing that chooses the candidate and then it goes off stage. Its effects are felt through the entire book because of who it chooses *and* because, even though it is a powerful piece of magic, someone like Barty Crouch Jr was able to override it on at particular day. It is a symbol for what ultimately happens to the Ministry of Magic in my mind. The tournament cup is just that; something cool-looking for the winner; it shows someone won. But the books are about so much more than anyone winning. They are about the journey Harry makes.
Barty Jr. isn't that powerful a wizard. He's a bully *but* he's got powerful friends that could teach him how to override Dumbledore's magic. He infiltrates Hogwarts and sets people up inside so that his master's plan can be achieved. The same thing happens to the ministry. Voldemort's people infiltrate and take over key positions and authority is ultimately overthrown. Something "good" is taken over by evil forces so that a plan can be enacted. It takes a lot of "good" people making "good" choices to overcome evil. The tournament itself is nothing but a (really cool) backdrop to the plot of the book which is to move Harry to the cemetery.
Harry finds, throughout the tournament, that he needs the help of others to overcome obstacles. That is a lesson he keeps having to learn and it is part of his journey to finally understand that. It is what ultimately makes him different from Voldemort in the end, his trust in and working *with* his friends. (See the final scenes of Book 5) Voldemort uses people and their gifts but he never truly collaborates. Harry is the "chosen one" in many ways - he's chosen to be tried and tempered by his experiences so that he has the strength in the end to defeat evil in the final battle. It's his journey that makes him strong, not the winning at the end.
Separating the Goblet and the Cup makes sense even without the whole Harry Potter plot. Being chosen is different from winning. There is honor in both and to be chosen to represent the school, I think is the greater honor. After that it's just sports and how well you do on a particular day and that can be manipulated by cheating. The choice the Goblet makes in the first place takes into account who you are as a whole. You notice that it wasn't a Griffyndor that was chosen. It was a brave Hufflepuff, a fierce friend, an all-around good guy. It was his honor to represent the school, whether he won or not.
It's a theme that runs very deep underneath the entire series - it's not what house or what family, Muggle/Wizard or even what you do on a particular day that is important. It is your choices every day, who you are as a person that determines your worth.
_
Heed WBA when building blanket forts.
ITLs don't get enough FAS. :)
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea
Aug 9 2015, 3:15pm
Post #14 of 24
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Goblet / Cup dichotomy (spoiler)
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(ARRR, HERE BE SPOILERS, ME HEARTIES)
Thanks for your thoughtful addition to this thread, Dame Ioreth, and to your daughter too! That is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for.
Your theory for keeping the Goblet separate from the Cup and for naming the book after the Goblet rather than the Cup might very well have captured the author's reason for those choices. It makes sense to focus more on the choice of participant rather than the object of winning. I find it likely that the author had that in mind. Great point, m'Dame.
Yet, the ending of the book focuses on the object of winning, the Cup, which serves as the...
(SPOILER AHOY MATIES)
[THAR SHE BLOWS]
portkey, in a shocking but well-foreshadowed twist, calling back to the other portkey at the beginning of the book as well as all the Dark Mark, visions of Barty Jr, and pensieve-flashback stuff.
(/spoiler, weigh anchor ye scurvy bilge rats, etc)
Unlike the Goblet, which plays no role in the ending whatsoever.
Thematically speaking, doesn't that confuse the issue a bit? If the Goblet is supposed to be so important, shouldn't it be involved in the climax somehow? I still think the author could have been clearer about making the Goblet more important to the story than the Cup, if that was the intention.
Maybe not necessarily by merging the Goblet with the Cup (which I still think would have been the simplest solution) but some other way that would place the Goblet somewhere in the climax.
Any suggestions how that could have been done?
***
Eru Ilúvatar lived in a timeless state,
Then he created the Ainur to sing his magnum opus. Wait….
The one who had most power,
Melkor, sang his section sour,
Ilúvatar got rather dour,
He sang Eä! (he let the Ainur in).
Melkor, in jealousy, he sought to mar the symphony
That all started with the first word. (BANG!)
https://youtu.be/lhTSfOZUNLo
(This post was edited by Ruxendil_Thoorg on Aug 9 2015, 3:22pm)
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Aug 9 2015, 5:41pm
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about the cup being in the climax as much as I think the Goblet needs to be important to the story. It does disappear from the words written, but all the important action goes back to choices and in that sense, that is the Goblet. Thematically, for me, the Cup disappears but the Goblet remains.
If you carry through the notion of the Cup being at the end and being the thing that everyone was striving for, as is the case if you follow the action of the tournament only, then I think JKR did show us that it is not really worthy of the status it had been given. How did she do this? By turning it into a mere tool of Voldemort. It's another object (like all the wizards that follow him, like the many wands he tries) to be used and discarded. Remember what the port key was at the beginning of the story? I moldy old boot. Port keys are meant to be used and discarded, everyday objects that no one pays attention to. Also, Voldemort's plan was to kill Harry. That meant the lauded TriWizard Cup (Insert fanfare here) would have become some rusted piece of trash in an abandoned cemetery. The Cup became a tool and lost its importance in the larger scheme of things. Even Harry uses it as a means to an end which is to get back to Hogwarts. No one cares that he actually found it and won the tournament.
The Goblet too became a tool of the plan. Is it different? I depends on how you view Voldemort's original plan and Harry's choices along the way, up to and including facing Voldemort and bringing back Cedric. The Goblet sets in motion not only Voldemort's plan, but Harry's growth. It remains, even after everyone finds out that Harry's name was put into the Goblet by shady means, the unchallenged way to pick a champion. No one ever said it chose wrong in the case of Victor or Fleur. No one even challenged Cedric. They challenged a *second* champion coming from any school. They challenged *Harry* only, saying the cup had been tampered with. They didn't call for a re-choosing saying the Goblet had gotten it all wrong. The Goblet maintained is place in a way that the Cup did not. The Goblet speaks to being chosen and then following through. That is what I think was important in that book.
But then again, all of this is just conjecture based on my character-driven way of reading books. The plot is there to tell me about the characters as far as I'm concerned.
_
Heed WBA when building blanket forts.
ITLs don't get enough FAS. :)
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
(This post was edited by Dame Ioreth on Aug 9 2015, 5:45pm)
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Aug 9 2015, 5:49pm
Post #17 of 24
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but I think it's important to note that it wasn't Harry who actively knew he was cheating. He took people's suggestions, but I don't think he went out of his way to cheat to win. As is usual with Harry, I think he was just trying to survive the contest.
So yes, again, in the grand scheme of things, it was being chosen that was important. It's important to the action of the plot of Voldemort's plan, but it is also important to show Harry being a git and then coming to his senses and realizing that he needs others and those friendships are important parts of his development and tempering into the weapon he ultimately becomes against Voldemort.
_
Heed WBA when building blanket forts.
ITLs don't get enough FAS. :)
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Aug 9 2015, 5:57pm
Post #18 of 24
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Harry was completely unaware of Barty's involvement. I don't see accepting Neville's advice on gillyweed, as much different from his learning spells with the help of Hermione and Ron to prepare for the last task. It's an "open book test" type of activity.
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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea
Aug 9 2015, 9:02pm
Post #19 of 24
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M'Dame, you make a great point about how the Cup is something that ends up being used and discarded, unlike the Goblet, which has a lasting impact even through the climax. In a character-driven way of looking at the book, the Goblet *is* involved in the ending, though that involvement is thematic rather than literal.
As one who values character-driven stories, I find that a perfectly sound defense of the book's title. Also, I tend to think the author tries to keep her stories character-driven, despite being as plot-laden as they have been. So, your explanation might very well have pointed out what the author intended.
Be that as it may, that book title ends up being the only one out of seven in which the book title's subject is not literally present at the climax of the plot. That might not be a fault per se when looking only at that book and nothing else. In context of the whole series, though, the fourth book title does appear to stick out jarringly, at least for me.
***
Eru Ilúvatar lived in a timeless state,
Then he created the Ainur to sing his magnum opus. Wait….
The one who had most power,
Melkor, sang his section sour,
Ilúvatar got rather dour,
He sang Eä! (he let the Ainur in).
Melkor, in jealousy, he sought to mar the symphony
That all started with the first word. (BANG!)
https://youtu.be/lhTSfOZUNLo
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Aug 10 2015, 1:34am
Post #20 of 24
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You are correct. The Goblet disappears from the action.
I wonder why they did change it. Is it a consistent title across all countries? I know they changed the first book title for the US audiences (still not sure why they did. The British title makes sense to me.)
Rats. Now that's going to bug me...
_
Heed WBA when building blanket forts.
ITLs don't get enough FAS. :)
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Kim
Valinor
Aug 10 2015, 2:32am
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According to JK Rowling herself
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Until the official title's announcement on 27 June 2000, the book was called by its working title, Harry Potter and the Doomspell Tournament. [5] J. K. Rowling expressed her indecision about the title in an Entertainment Weekly interview. "I changed my mind twice on what [the title] was. The working title had got out — Harry Potter and the Doomspell Tournament. Then I changed Doomspell to Triwizard Tournament. Then I was teetering between Goblet of Fire and Triwizard Tournament. In the end, I preferred Goblet of Fire because it's got that kind of cup of destiny feel about it, which is the theme of the book." [4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/...d_the_Goblet_of_Fire
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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea
Aug 10 2015, 2:52am
Post #22 of 24
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I'm not aware that there are any different titles for book 4 in other countries, like the Philosopher's Stone in the UK versus Sorceror's Stone in the US for book one. I think book one was the only book with different titles in different countries, language translations aside.
I don't know if has ever been announced publicly why the title needed to be Sorceror's Stone in the US. It smells of a publisher's marketing department's decision to go with alliteration, and the fanciful, more genre-specific "Sorceror" replacing the scholarly, potentially dry "Philosopher" (not dry to me though.)
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Eru Ilúvatar lived in a timeless state,
Then he created the Ainur to sing his magnum opus. Wait….
The one who had most power,
Melkor, sang his section sour,
Ilúvatar got rather dour,
He sang Eä! (he let the Ainur in).
Melkor, in jealousy, he sought to mar the symphony
That all started with the first word. (BANG!)
https://youtu.be/lhTSfOZUNLo
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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea
Aug 10 2015, 3:08am
Post #23 of 24
(1178 views)
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Thanks Kim! That answers my question
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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about how well known it was that "...and the Doomspell Tournament" had been a previously announced title for the book. Very, apparently.
The comment about a cup of destiny as the theme of the book seems to go along with what Dame Ioreth has been suggesting in this thread. WTG m'Dame!
Also, her switch from "Doomspell" to "Triwizard" confirms what Arandiel said about it. Good call Arandiel!
Have we got JKR pegged or what?
***
Eru Ilúvatar lived in a timeless state,
Then he created the Ainur to sing his magnum opus. Wait….
The one who had most power,
Melkor, sang his section sour,
Ilúvatar got rather dour,
He sang Eä! (he let the Ainur in).
Melkor, in jealousy, he sought to mar the symphony
That all started with the first word. (BANG!)
https://youtu.be/lhTSfOZUNLo
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Kim
Valinor
Aug 10 2015, 4:32am
Post #24 of 24
(1172 views)
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I always thought it was because most Americans would associate the term philosopher with it's literal meaning "a person engaged or learned in philosophy, especially as an academic discipline" vs magic. The term sorcerer is more obviously related to magic, and therefore a better fit for the introduction of this whole new magical world. I don't know how many had ever heard of Nicholas Flamel or the Philosopher's Stone, but I never had until reading this book. In retrospect, it does seem a bit odd to change the name of a historically known object.
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