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Goldeneye
Lorien
Jul 28 2015, 3:29pm
Post #26 of 62
(1846 views)
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There are hints in the theatrical and EEs that Beorn had a larger part in the story. Like when he talks about how Azog enjoyed torturing him and we see the closeup of his shackles.
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tsmith675
Gondor
Jul 28 2015, 3:37pm
Post #27 of 62
(1842 views)
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Orlando Bloom just wanted a bigger role and PJ didn't have the heart to say no.
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Shagrat
Gondor
Jul 28 2015, 3:51pm
Post #28 of 62
(1832 views)
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It was studio involvement after the lukewarm response to AUJ. Maybe Warner hoped for bigger numbers as well, and thought it best to plaster Elves over promotional material and bump up their roles, with a star-crossed love triangle thrown into the mix for good measure. Hell, why not get crazily popular with the teen crowd Ed Sheeran on the soundtrack while we're at it (it is, after all, hugely convenient that he just so happens to be signed to a subsidiary of Warner Music Group). That should get a few more bums on seats.
Or not, who knows? 
Although Legolas has a history of big stunts in LOTR, I don't honestly know why Jackson - a renowned lover of film monsters - would sacrifice the role of a rampaging bear for more of the same.
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NoelGallagher
Rohan
Jul 28 2015, 5:22pm
Post #29 of 62
(1794 views)
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I expect it to be some sort of fan service to involve more Beorn (including the torture scene too ). No matter if it fits the storyline or not. And honestly, as a flashback at Rhosgobel to set up Radagasts and Beorns decision to join the battle it would fit nicely,increasing Beorns anger again once more.
Just my two cents.
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adt100
Rohan
Jul 29 2015, 12:41pm
Post #30 of 62
(1664 views)
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It's a shame, as I'm sure most fans of the stories (and I don'tjust mean hard core book readers) would have preferred to see the Beorn/Bolg story more than Legolas. Even friends who are more casual fans of the films seem to think hey milk Legolas too much. He has plenty of heroics in LOTR!
It's seems whilst for LOTR PJ had free reign to do as he wanted (not always to the delight of fans, but generally successfully) in The Hobbit there does seem more and more evidence of studios pressures.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 29 2015, 9:10pm
Post #31 of 62
(1606 views)
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Re OB it never sounded that way to me in inteviews
[In reply to]
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http://www.hitfix.com/awards-campaign/orlando-bloom-avoids-deja-vu-returning-as-legolas-in-the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug#
Knowing how successful the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy was, and also the fact that Legolas isn't actually in the "Hobbit" novel, was there ever any hesitation on your part about taking a role in this film?
Not after I had spoken to Peter. Their ideas, which I have explained, were made to clear to me about how it could be made seamless and effective. Not after I'd had that conversation. It was definitely something that anyone would think. There's a big love for these books and these films and these stories. I think in the hands of Peter, the fans, I would hope, would feel rest assured that he will deliver a movie that will both entertain and [that they will] enjoy and will be in keeping with Tolkien's vision of the stories.
This - and some other articles I remember reading that are even more on point about OB's feelings - I always felt that OB seemed a tad dubious, if anything. Willing to give it a go, but certainly - and I was very impressed by it - there was never even a whiff of any attitude IMO. To the degree that I have wondered - without getting all weird and dramatic about it - that it actually affected his performance in some way, e.g., he never seemed that comfortable to me, compared to the rest of the cast. Or maybe that was just the direction OB got, to be a rather grim badass - I dunno.
As for studio pressure, there have been a lot of good posts in the past about the success of a strategy in featuring a lot of Legolas - one point being made that from an international perspective, he was a readily-recognized favorite. I also remember reading some gushing critic-comments "he hasn't aged a day"  which IMO was most certainly NOT the case, considering the amount of stiff CGI and/or silicon makeup primer that seemed to have been used (and that's not saying OB is not an attractive man, because IMO he is. But to me he often looked like a relative of the LOTR Legolas, depending on the shot....)
That said, I do remember some loose online polls that seemed to indicate - if those mean anything - that Smaug, Beorn, Thranduil were of the highest interest re DOS - not the other elves - e.g., the fact that there was a female elf and a returning Legolas wasn't the highest on the lists - which to me makes sense, re the coolness factor IMO. Dragons and fierceness and a new, deadly and beautiful badass king - why not? 
So if there were studio pressure, IMO, WB should have done more tracking. For me, listening to Philippa and PJ - well, I don't suppose they are gonna SAY what a studio wants, but it just seems like the film balance is a result of PJ & co. I can't imagine that the studio demanded LOTS of Alfrid, or wouldn't see an explosive character like Beorn onscreen as a draw.  Then there is the quote from PJ saying flat out he's making these movies the way he wants. But I truly believe, whether by studio demand or PJ, that OB never asked for anything re screen time - and in the end both the actor and PJ & co. and the studio must know by now that some decisions weren't wildly successful, which is a shame considering the amount of work that must have been done - e.g., the bat scene NOT being the coolest thing evah! and so on. 
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 30 2015, 5:35am
Post #32 of 62
(1555 views)
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BOMBY'zzz TWO Cents.. of Gold..?
[In reply to]
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Beorn followed Gandalf to protect him..
Beorn had NO reason to help the Dwarves once they went
Beyond his
Boundaries into Mirkwood...?
He
Smelt
Something was "Afoot"
Sniffing the AIR...
REALIZED the Danger that
Radagast was also in.?.AS his
Relative, a, a, a, neighbor, who likely
Related to him, during the "WATCHFUL Peace" a,
Rapid deterioration..in their OWN
REALM of Widerland
Rise-ing from the South..
Both
Berorn & Radagast were there, for an Age...to care for the
Beasts & Birds...
REVENGE for
RUTHLESSLY Killing OFF your entire
RACE for Sport?..is quite a motive..
"EVEN the Largest Thing"
Can
Change the
Course of the World.
SIZE means nothing to Tolkien
Don't CHA KNOW..
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Gandalf the Green
Rivendell
Jul 30 2015, 7:43am
Post #33 of 62
(1524 views)
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Indeed, the Legolas stuff was absolute garbage and I'm still wondering how PJ & co could possibly have thought it to be even the slightest of a good idea. And then I haven't even mentioned the fact that it was what replaced a far more interesting subplot. Was it this hard for them to realize that The Hobbit needed to have something different for once, rather than a useless love triangle and elves stealing screentime to do stuff that adds nothing to the plot whatsoever? Only PJ apologists would defend those things in even the slightest.
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Imladris18
Lorien
Jul 30 2015, 2:20pm
Post #34 of 62
(1479 views)
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OB takes an awful lot of heat for no good reason.
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Despite the actual facts:
http://lotrproject.com/...gue_hobbit_new-1.png
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/...en+time+in+dos+3.png
Somehow, people still insist that the last 2 films are the Legolas and Tauriel Show. In the movie they were featured in most, they COMBINED for 18 min of screen time total.
I don't think the issue is their screen time, it's the kind of scenes. Cut or understate the 'romance' between Kili/Tauriel (Evangeline didn't want any romance subplots in the first place), and remove the ridiculous Legolas bat-riding and stone-stepping, put him somewhere else (defending Dale or something, doing FotR-grade Legolas things), have Beorn fight Bolg, and I think a lot of the Legolas and Tauriel complaints go away.
Sidenote: I really enjoyed their little excursion to Gundabad (bar the semi-cringey "bred for war" lines). I wish there would've been a little more to it... it even gave some nice backstory to Thranduil as well.
(This post was edited by Imladris18 on Jul 30 2015, 2:21pm)
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 30 2015, 3:25pm
Post #35 of 62
(1457 views)
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Was it this hard for them to realize that The Hobbit needed to have something different for once, rather than a useless love triangle and elves stealing screentime to do stuff that adds nothing to the plot whatsoever?
I'm not saying I don't personally agree - tho there is some Legolas and Tauriel stuff I like (I just think less would = more with these characters in the Hobbit films).
But to be fair re Legolas, I tripped over everything from You-Tube comments to critics and bloggers who seemed mighty happy about the idea, at least before the movies' releases.
IMO PJ has made baffling choices before - Faramir and Denethor's treatment, elevating Arwen as a character (Faramir and Eowyn for me are far more interesting, and they barely get a nod as a couple.) Some of these choices I wonder if the ARE factoring in the "international component" e.g. what will translate across multiple languages and cultures, + making the films "family friendly".
Or maybe it's just PJ doing what he wants to do, because I get the impression from the Appendices that PJ thinks Legolas is cool.
After all, it seems that he is the one who contacted OB to bring him into the films. Guess we have to wait around for the EE for some kind of commentary - anything - because outside of some carefully managed press stuff with NO pointed questions from LOL those annoying fans - PJ & co have been seemingly off the grid, for months now.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 30 2015, 4:00pm
Post #36 of 62
(1441 views)
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I don't think the issue is their screen time, it's the kind of scenes.
And/or ADD 10 minutes - 7 minutes even! since BOFA was so short - of dwarves and Beorn and even Thranduil and elves - anything - Gandalf - and balance the characters out - as well as removing the bat flight and the cheesey lines.....
Because for me Gundabad IS cool - as a design - and when the legions pour out it's so ominous.
IMO Tauriel is believable in a knife fight *sigh* I was looking forward to her slashing her way through orcs on the battlefield (or I thought that was going to happen at one point... - all the things she could have done, like going to town with one of those Mirkwood double-bladed polearms. Really seeing why Tauriel was made captain....
I could even vaguely see Thranduil coming upon her and just being furious, but there's no time as the orcs keep coming - a king and his captain who deserted on a battlefield (vs. the parental vibe in BOFA....)
(Plus, IMO, if the dwarves had seen her on a battlefield fighting to defend dwarves/Erebor, it could have possibly segued nicely into her being at the funeral, mourning, and being given due respect by the dwarves. And Kili and Fili could have stayed together at the last.)
I liked Legolas shooting down a bunch of orcs and running out of arrows, the way Orcrist is returned and having to go for his knives - for me that's the Legolas I knew from LOTR - a deadly archer and lightning-fast warrior - plus for me one of the best things is the "unspoken battlefield coordination" between Thorin and Legolas, which was a nice nod back to DOS and for me is "realistic" in the midst of desperate fighting.
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Hobbity Hobbit
Lorien
Jul 30 2015, 7:24pm
Post #37 of 62
(1402 views)
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That looks cool, but a little bit violent for the movies... Though I would like a new Beorn scene!
"Obviously the idea of being human is a very human idea."
-Dominic Monaghan
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 30 2015, 8:02pm
Post #38 of 62
(1380 views)
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Well, I always jump re Kili taking that orc's head off in DOS, and the head comes flying at you - then of course some of the Dale scenes, and then there is Thorin who pushes that orc down at Ravenhill and takes his head off - love that - Dwalin causes all kinds of damage....
Actually tho - I think it was in the last Chronicles book or maybe a fan site - that re filming they opted not to use these for BOFA, re the inherent possibility of danger.
I just picture Tauriel being able to be like, you know, Darth Maul:
Only better looking, of course.
Hó , Það sé ég föður minn
Hó , Það sé ég móður mína, og Hó, Það sé ég bræður mínir og systur mínar
Hó , Það sé ég mitt fólk aftur í byrjun
Hó, gera Þeir kalla til mín, og bjóða mér að taka minn stað meðal þeirra í sölum Valhallar
Hvar hugrakkir mun lifa að eilífu
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Goblin Mutant
The Shire
Jul 30 2015, 8:39pm
Post #39 of 62
(1365 views)
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As have been said before by others this scene seems to have been intended for DOS. It would have fitted perfectly after Beorn explaining about the fate of his brethren during the company's meal in his house.
I do not see where this scene would fit in BOTFA. EXCEPT it could work as a prologue scene. In fact it could be great as a prologue the more I think about it.
I kind of miss a prologue scene in BOTFA since all the other five movies have them. It could work in the same way that the scene with Gollum remembering his name that was originally meant for TTT was moved to the ROTK prologue instead. Of course this is dependent on Beorns part in the battle being heavily expanded on. It would be awkward to have it as a prologue to the film and then only see him for three seconds at the end of the film after that .
Here's to Dwarves that go swimming with little hairy women.
(This post was edited by Goblin Mutant on Jul 30 2015, 8:41pm)
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PryftanAW
Bree
Jul 30 2015, 9:03pm
Post #41 of 62
(1354 views)
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This scene was shot for BOFA and not for DoS or AuJ!
[In reply to]
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One simple proof:
Beorns scars. We have 2 images from Beorn with scars in Rhosgobel. One together with Radagast and Gandalf.
Image 1: http://fotogalerie.herr-der-ringe-film.de/...ull.php?photo=298645 (Gandalf has no staff, Last day of shoot-> Rhosgobel (Bofa))
Image 2: http://fotogalerie.herr-der-ringe-film.de/...ull.php?photo=305730
In the whole Trilogy Gandalf and Radagast are never together at Rhosgobel, except after Dol Guldur in Bofa. -> Beorn will be in Rhosgobel together with Gandalf and Radagast in Bofa.
In DoS Beorn has no scars, so they are incurred sometime between DoS and Bofa (Rhosgobel) -> during the Dol Guldur sequence in Bofa
-> Beorn will tortured during the Dol Guldur sequence in Bofa, then Radagast and Gandalf rescue him and they go to Rhosgobel.
Another proof is the quote from Chronicles V
As we shot it, the escape from Dol Guldur had Gandalf still quite badly wounded, being evacuated from Dol Guldur by Radagast on his sledge. There was a pursuit through the castle ruin with ist broken staircases and bridges, a perilous chase culminating in them bursting out of the fortress's crumbling lower levels and into the forest again at ground Level. At one time Beorn was going to be present,a captive of the Orcs. It was an oppertunity for Radagast to Show some heroics
Even if this scene was shot for Bofa it doesen't say that it will be in the EE. We know from DoS, that not all scenes come in the EE. (Dwarfs in front of Thrandui, Dale...)
I hope you could unterstand me, I am not from US or UK, so my english is not the best.
(This post was edited by PryftanAW on Jul 30 2015, 9:10pm)
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Goblin Mutant
The Shire
Jul 30 2015, 9:17pm
Post #42 of 62
(1340 views)
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That seems like compelling evidence, but on the other hand you have the LEGO set with Beorn at Dol Guldur from DOS for example. Who knows how things got changed around during the production, but I'm not totally convinced that you are right  .
Here's to Dwarves that go swimming with little hairy women.
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PryftanAW
Bree
Jul 30 2015, 9:23pm
Post #43 of 62
(1334 views)
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There is also a set for Bofa with Smaug in Erebor, so they are not always correct.
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Imladris18
Lorien
Jul 30 2015, 10:26pm
Post #44 of 62
(1306 views)
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I was expecting to see, and would have preferred, our heroes in more of a traditional battle setting actually fighting. There was this really odd juxtaposition I felt with a lot of the heroes because they felt so isolated and removed from the overall battle - and this includes even the dwarf heroes. I get that that was partially intentional to keep the focus on the main characters, but the execution was strange.
I really enjoyed the tower scene and the dynamic with Thorin as well. Legolas is at his best doing awesome archery things (with occasional knife work, of course), not riding bats.
More Tauriel fighting would've been great, too. She shoots like 1 arrow in the whole movie, and you'd miss it if you weren't looking for it - the rest is wasted on swooning over Kili or getting smacked around by Bolg. I feel like they missed an opportunity to do some really cool stuff with Legolas/Tauriel/Thranduil that were more grounded in reality.
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jul 31 2015, 11:31am
Post #45 of 62
(1263 views)
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How much I agree with you!... //
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jul 31 2015, 11:46am
Post #46 of 62
(1270 views)
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Did it 'backfire badly with the fans'?
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May be with some fans like you, but otherwise many fans liked it... and I am among them!
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
(This post was edited by mae govannen on Jul 31 2015, 11:47am)
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Thrain II
Lorien
Jul 31 2015, 11:52am
Post #47 of 62
(1265 views)
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it did. Check every Hobbit board on the internet (including this one) and you will see that you are in the minority.
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jul 31 2015, 12:09pm
Post #48 of 62
(1253 views)
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I really hope you're wrong on this,
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there are so many much more interesting scenes to get in this last EE...
And I wouldn't actually put a scene of torture in a film that many children and youngsters are going to watch; even if it is just the EE of BotFA, it will still be part of 'The Hobbit', so they will for sure want to see it.
I am myself not keen on it at all, I would rather say 'No thanks!'
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jul 31 2015, 12:11pm
Post #49 of 62
(1251 views)
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Yes: more Beorn, but not this scene please!...//
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jul 31 2015, 12:34pm
Post #50 of 62
(1252 views)
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Everybody simply tends to see everywhere on internet rather what confirms their own opinion than what doesn't.
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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