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AshNazg
Gondor
Jul 27 2015, 5:26pm
Post #1 of 16
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Cutting Azog out of The Hobbit [FanEdit]
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So I've been concentrating on a fan edit for a while now, and there's one thing in particular that I think other editors might find interesting.
In AUJ the only mention of Azog or Bolg that I've kept is the flashback when Azog gets his arm cut off. I used a few tricks and (actually pretty easily) removed Azog entirely from the tree/eagle sequence. So he is dead in my version.
DoS works out fine without any mention of Azog. The barrel sequence is now just a barrel escape, with no fighting and nothing bad happens in Laketown.
BoFA is obviously the hardest, but it wasn't impossible - there's one big cheat I used here though. When Thorin goes to Ravenhill to "cut the head of the snake" here we meet Bolg, who is guarded by goblin merc's. Bilbo tries to aid the dwarves, but Bolg knocks Bilbo out. The dwarves keep fighting and this becomes a montage of fighting shots from all areas of the field, on Ravenhill, outside Erebor and in Dale. The eagles arrive and Beorn enters (hopefully the EE will give me more footage).
Bilbo wakes up to see the eagles above and begins looking around, here he finds Thorin dead on the ice and has his final words.
While it feels unusual to watch as a film, it's basically how the event plays out in the book, we don't see how Thorin dies or what happens, Bilbo just wakes up and it's all over. I think a bigger problem than not seeing how Thorin dies is not seeing Bolg dies, but it's pretty interesting to watch. 
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DainPig
Gondor
Jul 27 2015, 8:53pm
Post #2 of 16
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Azog is the MAIN VILLAIN of the trilogy, cut him out would stupid  . Where would be the tension scenes? The action scenes? And we would not have a motivation for why the orcs are attacking the moutain without Azog's character. We can not cu him out!!!
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, my blog is: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 27 2015, 9:00pm
Post #3 of 16
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I dunno, D.P.; it's hard for me to consider a character who was originally dead 142 years before the main story starts to be the main villain. The book does perfectly well without a main villain until the company reaches the Mountain, at which point it is Smaug--and then 'greed'.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 27 2015, 9:02pm)
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DainPig
Gondor
Jul 27 2015, 9:07pm
Post #4 of 16
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The timeline is not like this. There's no mention of when Thror died and Azog loses his hand off.
Thorin and Elrond says something like: the dragon Smaug is not has been sixty years... Did you watch the movies Otaku?
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, my blog is: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
(This post was edited by DainPig on Jul 27 2015, 9:08pm)
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DainPig
Gondor
Jul 27 2015, 9:13pm
Post #5 of 16
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The trilogy without Azog and Bolg would be... slow
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Just 15 guys traveling in some lands.... oh, look, trolls! spiders! goblins! oh, a dragon, he died... so, this is it....
Now with Azog we have a tension during the entire trilogy. The hunt is the main point of the first movie, and in the other we discover Azog has a link with the Necromancer and he will lead armies to attack the moutain. Is not just a bunch of goblins without a great motivation....
Cut Azog out of the movies is a depreciation... what to see a loyal story? Go read the books 
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, my blog is: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Jul 27 2015, 9:23pm
Post #6 of 16
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Thrors map was written 200 yers ago
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according to Elrond, and that was after Smaug attackt Erabor.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jul 27 2015, 10:25pm
Post #7 of 16
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It's just out of curiosity, DP...
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I'm not trying to improve the films (which I enjoy) I just find it fun and interesting to make it allign more with the book and see how well (or badly) it works.
It doesn't work as a conventional movie, but it's interesting to watch as a fan of the book.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 27 2015, 10:52pm
Post #9 of 16
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Thrors map was written 200 years ago according to Elrond, and that was after Smaug attackt Erabor.
Nope. Thorin is younger in the films than in the book. Even Tolkien only had Thorin in his 195th year for the Quest of Erebor. So either Thror made the map before Smaug attacked the Mountain (and before Thorin was born) or the map was made less than 200 years ago.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 27 2015, 10:54pm
Post #10 of 16
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Who said anything about cutting out Bolg?
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We can keep Bolg in the story even if Azog stays dead. Tolkien managed it. Jackson could have had Bolg searching for Thorin.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Jul 27 2015, 11:05pm
Post #11 of 16
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Because on the map it is saying The desolation of Smaug
and in AUJ Erond said "These runes were written on a Midsummer’s Eve by the light of a crescent moon nearly two hundred years ago."
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 27 2015, 11:11pm
Post #12 of 16
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So, Elrond's estimate was a bit off. Thrain presumably gave the map and key to Gandalf before the Battle of Moria, so Thror must have made the map no later than TA 2799 but also not very much earlier than that. In the book, it could have been anytime between 2770 and 2790. The map would have been about 150 years old, not 200.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 27 2015, 11:20pm)
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jul 27 2015, 11:22pm
Post #13 of 16
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When was Erebor first occupied?
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The map says "Here of old was THRAIN King under the Mountain" could this refer to Thrain I (1934-2190)? Perhaps he was the first king of Erebor?
Sorry to change subject, I just never considered this before and you know your stuff with dates, much better than I do.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jul 27 2015, 11:23pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 27 2015, 11:29pm
Post #14 of 16
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Thrain I founded Erebor in TA 1999, after the Dwarves were driven out of Khazad-dum by the Balrog in 1981. Thrain I died in the year 2190. Tolkien actually created Thrain the Old because he was having trouble keeping Thror and his son Thrain straight.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 27 2015, 11:30pm)
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jul 27 2015, 11:43pm
Post #15 of 16
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Thanks! So the map probably does refer to Thrain I
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I suppose it wouldn't make sense otherwise, considering Thrain II didn't become king.
Thanks for the info! It amazes me that even with lots of fans discussing every subject for many years, there are still details that we can learn about in these books. And to think all of it was created by one person just blows my mind.
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Jul 30 2015, 12:35pm
Post #16 of 16
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so you want to see a film of the story, but with a different story?
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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Why cut out the VILLAIN?
[