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aruman
Rivendell
Jul 14 2015, 1:24am
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Any ideas/ insight as to what happened here...
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Last night I finished The first half of the two towers (book 3). I've read this book many times, but it just occurred to me, I still don't know what happened with this…
Pippin has just looked into the Palantir, and the Nazgul flies overhead.
Gandalf lists several possible outcomes to the Nazgul's journey to Orthanc:
1.) first of all, Gandalf mentions that (he believes) while in Orthanc, Saruman has the power to withstand the Nine. To me, this seems like it might imply that ALL nine may eventually journey to Orthanc, which doesn't seem to have happened.
2.) Gandalf mentions that Saruman might try to trap the nazgul
3.) he speculates that Saruman might try to slay the Nazgul's steed.
Furthermore, I wonder how the presence of the Ents would affect any Nazgul entrance into Isengard.
Considering that we never hear about this issue again, or what happened during the Nazgul's trip to Isengarf, as far as I can remember, I guess nothing really critical happened here.
Has anyone ever read anything about this, maybe in the letters, or does anyone have any other ideas? Thanks
(This post was edited by aruman on Jul 14 2015, 1:33am)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jul 14 2015, 12:55pm
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I have the same impressions that you do.
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Gandalf suggests all kinds of things could happen, but none of them seem to come to pass. The most I can make out from the logic of the story is that a Nazgul does fly to Orthanc, sees the devastation, and either 1) turns around and goes home, having drawn his own conclusions, or 2) tries to have a little chat with Saruman, who probably refuses to communicate and stays safely inside his tower, and the Nazgul goes home without attacking the Ents or any further ado, considering the whole situation lost.
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Jul 14 2015, 1:10pm
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Pippin has just looked into the Palantir, and the Nazgul flies overhead.
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This was just coincidence:’But it was not coming for me, was it? faltered Pippin. ‘I mean, it didn’t know that I had. . .’
‘Of course not,’ said Gandalf. ‘It is two hundred leagues or more in straight flight from Barad-dur to Orthanc, and even a Nazgul would take a few hours to fly between them. . .’
Boromir looked in surprise at Bilbo, but the laughter died on his lips when he saw that all the others regarded the old hobbit with grave respect. Only Glóin smiled, but his smile came from old memories.
-JRR Tolkien
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Jul 15 2015, 1:10pm
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That's right - and perhaps Saruman quickly drops way down Sauron's list of priorities
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I notice that while Gandalf speculates a bit about what Saruman will do now, he starts that passage from having pointed out how Saruman has got himself into a pickle now (no captive to send, no palantir with which to explain himself...). Gandalf's point, I think, is to explain how Saruman is in every bit as bad a position as he would have been had he agreed to help Gandalf. Then Gandalf quickly moves onto to a greater concern - what might Sauron learn from Saruman or Wormtongue about Gandalf, hobbits, or the heir of Elendil? So overall, I don't think Tolkien is all that interested in writing about a Saruman vs Nazgul showdown - for all that would be a set piece action scene for another storyteller!
Anyway, maybe no showdown happens: Nazgul A ought to be able to report back not only that Saruman's power has been broken, but perhaps it can also tell that Saruman has not got the Ring. If it can report back both of those things, then I'd imagine Saruman would drop way down Sauron's list of priorities.
I'm also thinking that Sauron is quickly given other things to ponder: Aragorn looks in the palantir and wrests it from Sauron's control, seemingly with the intent of goading Sauron into hasty action. He deliberately reveals his identity, and perhaps Sauron jumps to the conclusion that Aragorn has the Ring as well as the palantir.
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squire
Half-elven
Jul 15 2015, 1:59pm
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"A set piece action scene for another storyteller"
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As you say, Tolkien resisted writing explicit battle scenes, whether magical or mortal. He was far more interested, I think, in the moral equation than the physical, something that I think a lot of writers, filmmakers, and even fans are less interested in compared to evoking the excitement and adrenaline rush of combat. As well, he knew that magic once described in detail becomes less magical, and more scientific, to a modern audience's eyes.
"How does he do that, exactly?" the reader would ask if given a detailed account of Gandalf's battle with the Nazgul on Weathertop, a blow by blow of the battle of the peak with the balrog, duking it out with the Witch King on the Pelennor, Galadriel resisting the onslaught of Dol Guldur, or your original suggestion of how Saruman might fend off the attack of a winged Nazgul.
Not that we don't get hints and occasional glimpses of magical might - the balrog on the bridge, the breaking of the gate of Minas Tirith, flashes of white fire good for five Nazgul-repelling points to save Faramir - but less is definitely more with Tolkien in such matters.
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