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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 10 2015, 1:44pm
Post #1 of 37
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No-one seems to talk about Luke Evans' Bard! Thoughts?
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Well, I don't - much. But then again, I figure if I already had a heart crammed with *hairy* favorites there just doesn't seem to be a lot of room..... 
But I think Luke Evans's does a fine job of mixing initial cynicism with a kindliness and a kind of everyman forced into heroism - LOL, I love Bard's expressions when he first meets the dwarves. I also like his BOFA interaction with Thorin, in that I think both actors hit exactly the right notes re the conversation through the door - one of my favorite BOFA scenes.... and the recently TORn discussed face-off with Smaug....
Paradoxically tho for me, since I like sword fights , Bard's fights in Dale tho for me are just a wee bit dull...to be fair, I thought the Legolas/Bolg Laketown fight was a wee bit dull too, for me. Some folks complain about the Goblin chase scene, but I love those fight scenes, and all the dwarf fight scenes - also the Legolas/Tauriel knife fight at Bard's.
I guess because unlike Thranduil in Dale, say, or Thorin/Azog, or even when Dwalin takes a log to those goblins - I'm not seeing really anything about the Dale fights that is either particularly fresh or something I haven't seen in a bunch of other movies - so, actually, the thought of seeing more Bard in Dale fighting doesn't thrill me (although seeing Thranduil fighting more in Dale would, or Fili at Ravenhill - and yes, Thorin, who is a think of beauty to watch - and even Dwalin with his raw power).
But, IMO, more of the Laketown opening sequence can only be a good thing, and I am hoping we get to see Bard react as Smaug destroys the windlance.
I like this scene too. And on a side note, I love, love, love the Welsh accent - and oh, the prophecy reading!
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CathrineB
Rohan
Jul 10 2015, 2:08pm
Post #2 of 37
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I love him so much I did know who Luke was before the movie, but never really gave him a second glance. But after him as Bard... I just love him. He makes Bard so likeable and there's that kindness in his eyes that suits him so well.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jul 10 2015, 2:45pm
Post #3 of 37
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Probably because his performance was very good it passes under the radar...
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He was cast well, he did what he could with the material given, and .......now that I think about it....we don't really see him at the very end of the film. Hopefully, the EE will resolve that.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 10 2015, 4:11pm
Post #4 of 37
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Luke Evans' performance was fine enough that almost no one noticed how bad his form was as an archer. Few actors are expert archers so they can only be as good as the training they receive.
I do find it a bit ironic that Bard is humanized in the films at the expense of making Thranduil more remote. However, that is a function of the script and in no way a criticism of Evans and his performance. At the same time, it is interesting that Peter Jackson felt the need to essentially turn Bard into Han Solo.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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Smaug the iron
Gondor
Jul 10 2015, 5:25pm
Post #5 of 37
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Bard never shooting sideways in the films only in posters and B,E and F are posters so nr 3 and 4 is only a problem in the poster and not in the films.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jul 10 2015, 5:42pm
Post #6 of 37
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...and he occupies less screen time than the dwarves and Thranduil. It may also be a bit unfortunate for him that in the last film he's set against Alfrid and those scenes have tended to attract more negative comment.
I hadn't heard of Luke Evans before but think he was an excellent piece of casting. He's kept an enigmatic quality to Bard, and the Welsh accent helps to make him seem just that bit different. There a subtlety to his acting and like Martin Freeman and Richard Armitage, his eyes and expressions speak volumes. A lot of moments stand out - the one I'm thinking of right now is the look that crosses his face when Bilbo admits that he stole the keys to Thranduil's dungeon.
Tolkien didn't give them much to go on with Bard and I think they developed his character rather well. As for his archery, I wouldn't necessarily take the word of one self-appointed expert on the internet without hearing what the film's own expert had to say. Expert opinions can differ (on all subjects!)
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 10 2015, 6:14pm
Post #7 of 37
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Now that you mention it...Bard in DALE?
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IT would have been quite NICE & appropriate,
if he could have taken a post along with many others
on one of the WALLS &..Shot many arrows @ the approaching ORCS..
{He is a Bargeman & Bowman, you Know?}
BUT, someone had to lead the Ground Troops of Lake men & women,
SSOoo..he couldn't really... do BOTH?
THAT was quite a shame... that he couldn't
have fought with many arrows with friends
after taking down "Mister Magnificent"
with only his SON to help...
Missed opportunity
HE really showed his ACTING STUFF
in many ways..A Most EXCELLENT ACTOR!
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 10 2015, 7:44pm
Post #8 of 37
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I think I fired off a few arrows years ago in a class - but, but....thank you for the link, that was fun, and I suppose a real archer would get frustrated with what they see - but in defense of Bard's archery:
1) Some of those pictures - it's when Bard is pointing an arrow at the dwarves - just sayin', I don't think Bard is really trying hard in that scene...and other stuff is just for posters, I think, re the sideways draw - I could see someone doing it if they are taking warning shot OR in a hurry. And didn't RA say the *short* dwarves tend to shoot low, and sideways?
2) Reversing your hand to draw a bow - I thought that was done because of the huge size of the bow?
3) The number of fingers you use to draw - if your hand is strong enough, does it matter past the usual two?
4) As far as jamming the pieces of a bow into the tower - I thought those were NOT holes, but big cracks left because Smaug had hit the tower - not rotten wood, and not predrilled holes re another thread.
5) OK - arrow is in the wrong position - oops.....
And I do remember Luke Evans saying he had done some archery before; he wasn't a complete novice on the Hobbit set. I wish some of the weapons experts on set would comment more about this stuff.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 10 2015, 8:04pm
Post #9 of 37
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I'll grant you that we can probably dismiss images that only appeared on publicity photos and not actually used in the films. And ones that are out-of-context where Bard was not actually preparing to fire an arrow. Even so, grips are an indicator of proper form or the lack thereof.
2) Reversing your hand to draw a bow - I thought that was done because of the huge size of the bow?
I have to trust the expert on this and assume that this should not have been necessary for a longbow. And as large as Bard's bow was, it doesn't seem to to be abnormally large.
3) The number of fingers you use to draw - if your hand is strong enough, does it matter past the usual two?
Again, I have to defer to the expert when he claims that a four-finger grip can affect the arrow's flight.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 10 2015, 8:04pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jul 10 2015, 10:05pm
Post #10 of 37
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But are you sure the expert is voicing the only possible opinion?
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Expert opinions can differ - and how can we know how expert that person is? Just because it's on the internet doesn't make it true.....
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Greenwood Hobbit
Valinor
Jul 11 2015, 8:11am
Post #11 of 37
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A hairy favourite, definitely!
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I love the blend of hero and family man that Bard represents, and I'm glad the Welsh accent was kept. I thought the archery blog Otaku-sempai posted was amusing, and answered some questions I'd had about the oddness of his grip on the bowstring etc. Not that I know anything about archery, except for those 'have a go' sessions at medieval fayres etc!
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Bofur01
Lorien
Jul 11 2015, 9:17am
Post #12 of 37
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It's not that uncommon, even for small bows...
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http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=33849#.VaDepNJq6kg
And come to think of it, even Kurtz used it in FOTR...
(This post was edited by Bofur01 on Jul 11 2015, 9:19am)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 11 2015, 11:58am
Post #13 of 37
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Expert opinions can differ - and how can we know how expert that person is? Just because it's on the internet doesn't make it true.....
True. On the other hand, I have seen this person's reviews of archery in film before and he seems to know what he is talking about.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
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marary
Lorien
Jul 11 2015, 3:33pm
Post #14 of 37
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Casting and performance was on point
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It's true that Bard was less sympathetic and the Elvenking more in the book. That certainly got reversed for the movie! I don't mind particularly, but the Thranduil/Bard role reversal was a bit of a liberty.
What can I say? Luke Evans is magnetic on screen, and very believable in the Lake-town world. The Thorin/Bard chat through the diamond-shaped hole is one of my all-time favorite ME scenes (LOTR included), and both actors were totally on point. (I think How It Should Have Ended vastly improved upon this scene, however. Awkward sliiiide...  )
I liked that Bard got a backstory and a family. One of the better jobs of fleshing out a canon character. His introduction was clever, moved the plot along and contributed to world building at the same time. Very economic and fun to watch.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 11 2015, 5:28pm
Post #15 of 37
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What can I say? Luke Evans is magnetic on screen, and very believable in the Lake-town world.
As Dormouse posted, it's a quiet performance, but in thinking about it more, IMO it's perfect re the dynamics and the leads - the fiery Thorin, the icy Thranduil, the hearth-warm earthy Bard - a reluctant hero.
It's true that Bard was less sympathetic and the Elvenking more in the book. That certainly got reversed for the movie! I don't mind particularly, but the Thranduil/Bard role reversal was a bit of a liberty.
*Sigh* I suppose "in general" we don't "superficially" see Thranduil's capacity for wisdom and depth until the end of BOFA, but then again, the movies DO make the point, more than once, that Thranduil was protective of his people...still, I do miss a full portrayal of the book Thranduil as I always pictured him - although in many ways the Hobbit Thranduil IMO is the Elven King to perfection.
It just would have been so interesting to see some of Thranduil's back story - but there ARE those EE rumors? Hints?
Re:
I liked that Bard got a backstory and a family. One of the better jobs of fleshing out a canon character. His introduction was clever, moved the plot along and contributed to world building at the same time. Very economic and fun to watch.
Bard's expressions at times are priceless. And I love, love the through-the-door-scene - IMO perfectly done by both parties - just that tiny moment when Bard drops his eyes at Thorin's words, but sticks to needing to look after his own people - there's so much great SUBTLETY (*snark* LOL VM ) going on there - the way Bard cautiously approaches the door (e.g. this is a king and dwarves on their own ground, now....) and Thorin - even dragon sick - doesn't deal with Bard with the foaming fury he feels towards Thranduil.
Aaaand - I hadn't been on the collecting forum in a while but evidently Bard - as well as Tauriel and Saruman....are available - and I will have to think about this one...
Oooops again - isn't the arrow supposed to be on the other side of the bow? Then again, w. these kinds of figures (this one from Asmus) I guess you can fix that kins of thing. Even Bard's collectible figures are cool! and yes I really, really hope they do Thranduil and Thorin and Bilbo and all the dwarves really.....
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Lorien
Jul 11 2015, 5:52pm
Post #16 of 37
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Bard, Thranduil and Thorin... three distinct kings with a great power dynamic going on. Honestly, I thought it was one of the strongest points on BOFA, and a lot of that is due to Luke Evan's earthy, pragmatic portrayal as Bard.
Forget the five kings of Westoros. Give me the three kings of Rhovanion any day! ;)
Thranduil, for me, was superb. A delight every time he graced the screen. Many fans took issue with him being OOC... but honestly, I read up on canon Thranduil, and I didn't find him particularly contradictory about him in most respects (including the classism- I could be totally off-base, but I'm happy to discuss). The only difference was that he was a bit more battle-happy in the film, until deciding to retreat rather than lose more people. So in a way, they did honor the more reluctant to fight book character.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jul 12 2015, 10:07am
Post #17 of 37
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Bard's Grandfather WAS the King of Dale?
& there is Hidden reference to it in "The TENT Scene"...
When Gandalf walks out towards the Front Door
to talk about the strategic location of Erebor,
he guides them to a Circle Room with
broken Latticework,
There you see a Stone Throne.. similar to Denethor's in
Minas Tirith..nothing is said about it.. but it seems
that Room is in the highest reaches of Dale
.. a Council & or Ceremonial room?
just like where The White Council
had their meeting in Rivendale.
MAYBE there might be a few extra Shots there
explaining THAT CHAIR in the EE this November..?
Even if Bard just puts his hand on it, with a line or two,
would be COOL?
If you hadn't Noticed this yet?
Look for it... Next time!
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 12 2015, 3:28pm
Post #18 of 37
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Grandfather WAS the King of Dale?
Well, almost 150 years separate Bard from the destruction of Dale (over 170 years in the book). I think he would have to add at least two or three "greats" in front of Grandpaw Girion's name. But I guess that the Lord of Girion was counted as a king.
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 12 2015, 3:30pm)
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marary
Lorien
Jul 12 2015, 6:06pm
Post #19 of 37
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Fun fact: Luke Evans, with the help of a lot of prosthetics, also played Girion in the Dale flashbacks.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jul 12 2015, 6:16pm
Post #20 of 37
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Yes he did. Everybody sing: I'm my own (great-great-great-)grandpa!
"At the end of the journey, all men think that their youth was Arcadia..." - Phantom F. Harlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 12 2015, 6:19pm)
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 12 2015, 11:15pm
Post #21 of 37
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I write that off to posing for the camera. Also they had the Dwarves doing that, as an attempt to differentiate them from Legolas. Evangeline got some similar criticism for her "poses."
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 12 2015, 11:22pm
Post #22 of 37
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Well I guess he had to kill that Troll thing with the wagon
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yeah, that was much more important.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 12 2015, 11:54pm
Post #23 of 37
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Two before the Hobbit, and two after. He did a really silly version of "The Three Musketeers," which also starred Orlando Bloom as the Duke of Buckingham - lemme tell you. Orlando CANNOT do a decent evil laugh, LOL! I took my daughter to see it because of the guy playing D'Artanon (also Percy Jackson), and Luke's character definitely caught my eye. Didn't realize that was him at first, but I also saw him in "The Raven" and I recognized him from that. Later I watched "No One Lives," where he played a psycho killer - kind of like someone else in "The Hobbit" - pattern?
And then of course the most recent "Dracula Untold." That was an interesting take on the old tale, and I thought he did well. As far as acting goes, I don't know that I would put him in the same category as Richard or Martin, but I agree that he was well-cast. He's a definite up-and-comer, and I expect he'll be doing lots of good things in the future. My favorite scene of his in "The Hobbit" is when he's on the rooftop and Smaug flies right overhead. He ducks, and the look on his face is part amazement, part terror - and very believeable. Yeah, he's good.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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elostirion74
Rohan
Jul 13 2015, 3:05pm
Post #24 of 37
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I think there are several obvious reasons why Bard isn't so much talked about
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Luke Evans' performance is fine, but in a cast with several very strong performances, it doesn't really stand out as something exceptional.
He has plenty of screen time and is given a background and a context, but IMO much of the material doesn't provide for much depth. It's rather standard hero-building fare, where Bard is the family man hero and the Master and Alfrid are typical villains. Except his more rugged looks Bard seemed to me to be a hero of a very traditional mould, when comparing him to heroes from a range of other films. He's a family man who tries to protect his family and he constitutes the expected moral center of the audience: in this case a champion of the people and the common folk. In short I would say that Bard in the films is a character who is very consciously sold to the audience as a hero and a very likeable character.
There isn't anything wrong about this angle per se, but IMO it's not very interesting or inventive either and the way it's handled isn't particularly engrossing. As a consequence he's not very much debated, when you have several other more complex characters to engage with and think about.
I love his confrontation with Thorin & the Master in Lake Town, the prophecy scene and his talk with Thorin, but apart from these scenes I think his character needed a more interesting conflict or counterpoint to be really engaging.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jul 14 2015, 4:39pm
Post #25 of 37
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Thoughtful and interesting IMO - thank you for posting!
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There isn't anything wrong about this angle per se, but IMO it's not very interesting or inventive either and the way it's handled isn't particularly engrossing. As a consequence he's not very much debated, when you have several other more complex characters to engage with and think about.
Perhaps this is why I view - tho I hadn't given it huge thought until this thread - that Evans' earlier appearances in the films to me is more interesting than the latter "in general" - e.g., in DOS really, since he is willing to smuggle the dwarves and even tweak them by not being too clear about those weapons - Bard IS to me a bit ambiguous as a character. And there's a little snark there - a little danger "do it again, and you're dead" and the suspicion when he meets the dwarves.
I personally think the standoffs with Thorin, and "do you not know what it coming" and Laketown and the move to Dale are wonderful...but then, for me - although I am not sure what else they could have done - we have the brave Laketowners with Bard fighting orcs...but to me, the fighting in Dale except for Thranduil wasn't hugely novel except for Thranduil - although there are some beautifully framed shots. I thought Percy was interesting because he evolved into a fighter/archer!
Other stuff re Bard/Dale didn't move me, but I'll leave that as it was covered in some other threads *cough* cart-thing *cough* but I did like just the way Bard tells Alfrid to get up and the look on his face LOL.
I think it's a tough dynamic to deal with on screen re focus and where the filmmakers wanted to go....we already have a fiery antagonism between Thorin and Thranduil; Bard we see as a good guy at heart, taking in the sick Kili (indeed, I think it's a failing that when Bard re-appears, that Fili/Kili/Oin/Bofur hadn't gotten a scene previously explaining that Bard was the only one who helped - or I guess we are supposed to interpolate that happened, as Thorin calls Bard dragon-slayer - the point being that when Bard shows up, Fili and Kili just look *majestically* at him - no mention of Bard's kindness - and Bard doesn't look at them, really, either - IMO this isn't logical....why wouldn't Bard at least LOOK at Fili, who had told him to take his children and flee?)
ANYWAY I can see the fillmmakers problems in wrestling with all these strong characters on screen, that they didn't end up with leads that are kind of similar in personality in a way, and I think PJ accomplished that.
And re my Dale-fight issues - well, once again there IS an EE coming and I believe Evans has mentioned there was more to the Dale fights. And too - I am not sure how much you can choreograph with close-quarter fighting with lots of people/orcs/elves that is amazingly novel.
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