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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Jul 6 2015, 3:47pm
Post #1 of 4
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If Dwarves are Norse, then are Elves Celtic?
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Okay, this question may not belong here, but here is where I'm posting it. I've read dozens of posts here over the past 2+ years suggesting that alot of the Dwarvish look, runes, language, etc. is based on Old Norse, and I believe that is where Tolkien got alot of his inspiration for the Dwarves. So, are the Elves more like Celts? It seems to me that is the case. Their language seems to flow like some form of Gaelic (at least to my ears); alot of their symbols are curvey like the Celtic knot and Triene symbols, and they love woods and trees. It also makes sense to me seeing that Tolkien was British, living in a country that was heavily influenced by both Celtic and Norse cultures and languages. But I am very uneducated in Tolkienology, and depend on my fellow TORners to enlighten me. Any thoughts? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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Morthoron
Gondor
Jul 6 2015, 4:47pm
Post #2 of 4
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From a very basic standpoint, Sindarin is influenced by the Welsh language and Quenya (High Elvish) has Finnish influences using Latinate pronunciation. Tolkien was not very keen on Celtic mythology and the Celtic tree of languages (particularly Gaelic forms were abandoned very early on as he formed his languages), retaining only Welsh variations.
As far as the Elves themselves, the Alfar (Old Norse Ljósálfar = Light Elves) of Norse mythology are the precedents of Tolkien's Eldar. As far as Celtic imagery, Tolkien rejected the idea:
"Needless to say they are not Celtic! Neither are the tales. I do know Celtic things (many in their original languages Irish and Welsh), and feel for them a certain distaste: largely for their fundamental unreason. They have bright colour, but are like a broken stained glass window reassembled without design. They are in fact "mad" as your reader says — but I don't believe I am."
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
(This post was edited by Morthoron on Jul 6 2015, 4:47pm)
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 6 2015, 6:57pm
Post #3 of 4
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I've moved this to Main as it's the better board for your discussion. 
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Jul 6 2015, 8:05pm
Post #4 of 4
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A good read if you want to see how loopy Celtic tales are. Don't know whether the Celts were on 'substances' or whether they just didn't care about stories making any sense.
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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